Curing dry rock is inefficient

[cdemoss01]

What is your definition of efficient? Is it time based? Money based? Energy based? I can show you 2 different tanks 1 lr and 1 dry. The dry rock was more efficient in cost, time spent maintaining and overall outcome is less time also. Those would not be good comparisons though as filtration, lighting, fish are all different there for a different outcome.

Mainly it was money based my dad thought it was a good idea at the time. But as time went on dry rock just kept leeching and kept giving me problems.

 

[skey44]

I am curing dry rock now. Assuming we are using the term “dry rock” for rock that was harvested from the ocean but allowed to dry out. It’s was used in my last aquarium as dry rock from a previous aquarium and I didn’t win the uglies battle, probably due to leaching phosphate. So hopefully third times a charm with this rock. First time was wonderful too, it was live, fresh, teaming with life and had 0 unwanted hitchhiker (unless you count vermitids but they never bothered me). But over the two tanks life it eventually absorbed phosphates (I was doing a lot wrong in tank two and wasn’t even testing phosphates so really this is theoretical based in numbers I’m seeing now) and led to nuisance algae in tank two.

After two weeks of dosing Brightwell Microbacter clean and a 100 percent WC my Brute was looking crystal clear and I was excited… then I tested phosphates and they were quite high .9ppm. Now I’m running GFO in a reactor and have tested a couple more times, down to .16 and now back up slightly to .21 ( I did add one more small dry rock between the two tests so maybe it’s just from that). I will continue this process of running GFO until we are down to zero. Then I will stop the GFO and retest a few days later to ensure no leaching. This may take a while but it will be nice to have peace of mind of no phosphate leaching, no pests, and still with the beauty and high porosity of natural ocean rock to start the process of (hopefully slowly) absorbing phosphates again from the new system. I also plan to seed with 10lbs or so of premium live rock for biodiversity and micro fauna.

 

[twentyleagues]

Mainly it was money based my dad thought it was a good idea at the time. But as time went on dry rock just kept leeching and kept giving me problems.

If you use actual mined dry rock it should leach nothing. Marco rock is mined, acid bathed, Power washed, it arrives to you with basically nothing in or on it. If this was what you used what was it leaching? If you put this rock into a phosphate rich soup it will "pull" that out of the soup and store it until the rock and water reach equilibrium. When the water has less phosphate in it than the rock it will try to equilibrate pulling phosphates out of the rock. If you pull this rock out and dry it will retain all the soup fixings you had in that soup. If you used dry rock like this then yes there is stuff to leach out. You can use phosphate absorbing materials to lessen the amount. Never used lanthium chloride seems like this might be a perfect use for it before the tank is up and running.

 

[twentyleagues]

I am curing dry rock now. Assuming we are using the term “dry rock” for rock that was harvested from the ocean but allowed to dry out.

This is part of the reason the hypothesis is flawed, we dont know what is exactly being discussed.

 

[William Chiavetta]

Hypothesis: I think curing dry rock is an inefficient way to start a reef tank.
Back when I started with my first tank I thought it would be a good idea to cure live rock as it was less expensive at the time. This rock was completely dry at first and was put into a bin for 6 months I added Aquavitro chemicals, with a heater and submersible pump to keep water circulation for the nitrifying bacteria to begin forming. Eventually about 2nd months in the rock had a carrot like smell to it. I had done several water changes. On the fourth month I added the rock to the tank. It had no color change and looked almost the same. I cycled the tank for 2.5 weeks when ammonia tests came back 0. I put the rock in during cycle and it immediately started leaching phosphates causing multiple algae blooms as well as ammonia spikes. It caused me a lot of grief into the future such a as algae blooms that wouldn't stop and sometimes ammonia spikes killing fish and causing crashes. I later added live rock to the system which changed a lot of things in the tank. More stable levels and way less algae. This rock began to help my system get to where it is today. After adding this rock I was able to grow coral stability.
In conclusion curing dry rock is an inefficient way to start a reef tank due to phosphate leeches and ammonia spikes.
Side note: I am only 14 making this as I do think that curing dry rock is an inefficient way of starting a reef tank. Please give criticism in this thread if there is any. I do understand that this research could be slightly bad.
Thank you.

Maybe if it was a little more organized it might be a little better but overall I really like it.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I think that drawing conclusions about a process (such as starting a reef tank) with many differences from tank to tank, such as the nature of the dry rock used or the nature of the live rock used will necessarily be limited in scope and not be generally applicable to all variants of the process.

 

[cdemoss01]

This is part of the reason the hypothesis is flawed, we dont know what is exactly being discussed.

I'm trying to discuss why curing dry rock is inefficient for starting reef tanks.

 

[cdemoss01]

What is your definition of efficient? Is it time based? Money based? Energy based? I can show you 2 different tanks 1 lr and 1 dry. The dry rock was more efficient in cost, time spent maintaining and overall outcome is less time also. Those would not be good comparisons though as filtration, lighting, fish are all different there for a different outcome.

Money and time based. IMO I found that dry rock takes a lot of time to stabilize and to get your tank under control with it.

 

[Nano_Man]

Live Rock for 30 years and ii have never used dry Rock

 

[cdemoss01]

H

Live Rock for 30 years and ii have never used dry Rock

How did it go for you?

 

[twentyleagues]

I'm trying to discuss why curing dry rock is inefficient for starting reef tanks.

What Randy posted is one reason why I said that. There are just too many variables. It didnt work for you in your tank. So in your 1 instance it doesnt/didnt work but I dont think thats gounds for an all encompassing statement like you made.

 

[Nano_Man]

H

How did it go for you?

Every tank I have ever set up I’ve used live rock and it’s just not rock it’s a filter also a foundation for a reef. I’ve never had a problem with cycling a tank sometimes with mature live rock jumping the cycle in a new set up. So why would you put dry rock that at best gets good bacteria on its surface also coralline . You can make stunning scapes out of live rock also L Rock is so full of packed with good bacteria that you don’t get from dry rock . Yes you could use dry rock at the bottom of
your scape to bulk it out but I never have.

 

[cdemoss01]

What Randy posted is one reason why I said that. There are just too many variables. It didnt work for you in your tank. So in your 1 instance it doesnt/didnt work but I dont think thats gounds for an all encompassing statement like you made.

True possibly dry rock in some other cases is better but I've talked with LFS's and other reefers who have used dry rock and most say its a bad choice.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

True possibly dry rock in some other cases is better but I've talked with LFS's and other reefers who have used dry rock and most say its a bad choice.

There are good reasons to use live rock.

Maybe the issue lies in the term inefficient.

If folks are expressing an opinion that live rock is better, that’s a different idea than claiming dead rock is inefficient.

I think the majority of folks would prefer live rock (not all, some worry about pests), but it is the big cost advantage of dead rock that folks pick it.

 

[cdemoss01]

There are good reasons to use live rock.

Maybe the issue lies in the term inefficient.

If folks are expressing an opinion that live rock is better, that’s a different idea than claiming dead rock is inefficient.

I think the majority of folks would prefer live rock (not all, some worry about pests), but it is the big cost advantage of dead rock that folks pick it.

By inefficient I mean its not all that great for starting a reef tank due to stability issues and algae issues.

 

[twentyleagues]

By inefficient I mean its not all that great for starting a reef tank due to stability issues and algae issues.

That was true for you and some others but not for me and some others. My tank is very stable only being running a short time seems thats when most that have problems have the most problems.

I am not saying either method is better they both have their pros and cons.
I am failing to see the extreme issues one has with dry rock. IME it has only been positive so far. Who knows what will happen in the next 6 months.
It has been a really really long time since I have used real ocean direct live rock and it needed to be cycled because of the die off on it so no real benefit to me at that time. Lfs live rock works to cycle a tank instantly but be prepared for issues along the way also, that was used a little more than a year ago. I know I will not be doing that again.

 

[cdemoss01]

That was true for you and some others but not for me and some others. My tank is very stable only being running a short time seems thats when most that have problems have the most problems.

I am not saying either method is better they both have their pros and cons.
I am failing to see the extreme issues one has with dry rock. IME it has only been positive so far. Who knows what will happen in the next 6 months.
It has been a really really long time since I have used real ocean direct live rock and it needed to be cycled because of the die off on it so no real benefit to me at that time. Lfs live rock works to cycle a tank instantly but be prepared for issues along the way also, that was used a little more than a year ago. I know I will not be doing that again.

Thank you for the criticism I've learned a lot!

 

[787will]

I believe a lot a peoples issues that arise with starting tanks with dry rock stem from the dozens of methods out there on the best way to cycle the rock vs the tried and true established method when using LR of just sticking it in the tank and waiting for the natural cycle.
I'll always be an advocate for dry rock and would argue that it wins on "efficiency" in pretty much all categories. Heck ive been able to cycle a new tank with dry rock, 1 bottle of bacteria and ammonia dosing to 1-2ppm and cycling down to zero in less than 12hours in under a week. Its later tank husbandry methods and tank treatment that determine the health of rock and tank as whole and whether individuals deem using dry rock as a success.
If you haven't seen Roberto Denadai's tanks then you need take the time and check him out, he uses dry rock and doesn't even "cycle" the tank. He has some of the best looking tanks and he continuously proves the doubters wrong. He's inspired me in my latest build which uses dry rock and only corals for seeding bacteria.

Roberto Denadai

 

[Northern Flicker]

Agreed with others - efficiency is the wrong way to look at this.

It would be impossible to really "study" this.

 

[cdemoss01]

I believe a lot a peoples issues that arise with starting tanks with dry rock stem from the dozens of methods out there on the best way to cycle the rock vs the tried and true established method when using LR of just sticking it in the tank and waiting for the natural cycle.
I'll always be an advocate for dry rock and would argue that it wins on "efficiency" in pretty much all categories. Heck ive been able to cycle a new tank with dry rock, 1 bottle of bacteria and ammonia dosing to 1-2ppm and cycling down to zero in less than 12hours in under a week. Its later tank husbandry methods and tank treatment that determine the health of rock and tank as whole and whether individuals deem using dry rock as a success.
If you haven't seen Roberto Denadai's tanks then you need take the time and check him out, he uses dry rock and doesn't even "cycle" the tank. He has some of the best looking tanks and he continuously proves the doubters wrong. He's inspired me in my latest build which uses dry rock and only corals for seeding bacteria.

Roberto Denadai

I agree. I should've said something about that in the paragraph.