Crystal clear water without carbon

[Roberto Yoneda]

As many times I got valuable information from this forum, I want to share my new experiences to pursuit the most crystal and clear water I can.
I have three tanks:
- one AIO hospital tank running for 4 months. It has 20 gal, Tunze DOC 9001 skimmer, one box of Marine Pure biomedia balls. No sump, no refugium. The tank has 7 green chromis, one yellow tang, one powder blue tang and one emperor angel. The fishes are in this tank for 2 and half months.
- another tank with 15 gal running for one month as a quarentine tank with Icecap RS 15 sump and Skimz SM163 skimmer. No biomedia and no refugium. The tank has four clowfishes and two anthias I got last friday. Since last week I started to run an Aquamaxx TS-2 sulfur reactor.
- main display with 125 gal, 20 gal sump with refugium, one box of Marine Pure biomedia balls, Pukani and Reef Safe rocks from BRS and Vertex Omega 180i skimmer. No fishes yet because it’s a new tank (first week).
In all three tanks I’m not using carbon/GFO.
In a two little fishes 150 reactor, I’m running Seachem Purigen (in a media bag) with Seachem Matrix with a 400 gph pump. In low flow areas, I put a media bag with Seachem de*nitrate.
I spent $42 with all the three stuffs above and got all from amazon. The three stuffs quantity are enough for my 3 tanks.
The results I’m getting are very impressive. I never saw my tanks with a prestine crystal clear water as I’m seeing now.
And the water tests are perfect: no amonia, no nitrate, no nitrite and no phosphate. And I feed the fishes 3 times a day !
I’m trying these three stuffs because I always thought carbon as a waste of money and I started to research new stuffs. When we have some trouble with the tank water, the carbon can’t help us to reduce amonia, nitrite, nitrate or phosphate. Another “issue” is the life spam. After no more than one month (in avarage), carbon needs to be replaced. The only situation that I think to use carbon is when I need to remove medication from the tank water.
Another thing I noticed is that all skimmers are working “less”.
Seachem Purigen is a regenerative stuff with bleach. After six months (in avarage), I’ll need to soak Purigen in bleach and in two days, they are good to go again. De*nitrate and Matrix don’t need to be replaced or regenerated.
The first tank I used the 3 stuffs combination was the hospital tank and it’s running all the three stuffs for 2 months. Now I’m using the three stuffs in all my three tanks with very impressive results.
Sharing my experiences, I hope to help another fellow reefers to get crystal clear and prestine water and saving money and time to enjoy the hobby.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Just to clarify, no reef tank should have ammonia or nitrite. The products you bought are not needed to reduce them.

The Purigen is a fine product for reducing organic matter, but I'm not convinced it is "better" than good quality GAC. Since its method of binding is slightly different than GAC, it may remove a slightly different subset of total organics.

If you do not have a good phosphate export method (none of your Seachem methods are), you may eventually get elevated phosphate.

 

[Roberto Yoneda]

Thanks for your comments.
I’m always learning here.
Let me clarify too.
The thread is about replace carbon for something better and get another advantages with new stuffs, also thinking in ways to get better results and saving money.
My intentions with this thread are not about reduce amonia, nitrite, nitrate and phostate. The topic is crystal clear water without carbon.
And if Purigen can reduce organic waste (this information is provided by Seachem), it helps to control amonia, nitrites and nitrates by removing nitrogenous organic waste that would otherwise release these harmful compounds. That’s what is written on the bottle label.
I don’t know any carbon that can reduce organic waste, so I think there are more advantages using Purigem than carbon. As I wrote, carbon must be replaced every month, purigem I just need to soak in bleach and it’s ready to go again.
I think a lot in preventive actions, not in reduce (corrective actions) amonia, nitrites, nitrates and phosphate. My intentions when I started to use the combination of these 3 stuffs were to get crystal clear water and also control amonia, nitrite, nitrate levels. I had a little nitrate, it wasn’t a problem but now, I have no nitrate after started to use these stuffs.
I can’t tell about good quality GAC. I can tell about the method I wrote in this thread because I’m using these stuffs and they are working very well for me. This is the fact.

Just to clarify, no reef tank should have ammonia or nitrite. The products you bought are not needed to reduce them.

The Purigen is a fine product for reducing organic matter, but I'm not convinced it is "better" than good quality GAC. Since its method of binding is slightly different than GAC, it may remove a slightly different subset of total organics.

If you do not have a good phosphate export method (none of your Seachem methods are), you may eventually get elevated phosphate.

Just to clarify, no reef tank should have ammonia or nitrite. The products you bought are not needed to reduce them.

The Purigen is a fine product for reducing organic matter, but I'm not convinced it is "better" than good quality GAC. Since its method of binding is slightly different than GAC, it may remove a slightly different subset of total organics.

If you do not have a good phosphate export method (none of your Seachem methods are), you may eventually get elevated phosphate.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Thanks for your comments.
I’m always learning here.
Let me clarify too.
The thread is about replace carbon for something better and get another advantages with new stuffs, also thinking in ways to get better results and saving money.

I'm not sure Purigen (the product you are using that competes with carbon) is better than a good carbon (e.g., ROX 0.8), and I have never seen any true comparative data, but it is certainly a fine product to export organics.

 

[Roberto Yoneda]

My advice: you could try to use Purigen. Before try it, you can read the reviews on amazon. There are almost 300 reviews and many of them are saltwater tank owners. I’m not the only one getting amazing results. Good luck !

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

My advice: you could try to use Purigen. Before try it, you can read the reviews on amazon. There are almost 300 reviews and many of them are saltwater tank owners. I’m not the only one getting amazing results. Good luck !

lol

I certainly agree Purigen is a fine product and it works well.

I don't want to get into an argument with either you or Seachem, but Amazon reviews are not a good place to learn science.

 

[Roberto Yoneda]

Well, I’m engineer and I beleive I don’t need to learn sciense to see if my tank water is crystal clear and to understand my water test results. I think it’s the same with with the fellow reefers here and for amazon reviwers.

 

[Broadfield]

Well, I’m engineer and I beleive I don’t need to learn sciense to see if my tank water is crystal clear and to understand my water test results. I think it’s the same with with the fellow reefers here and for amazon reviwers.

What are you using for mechanical filtration? If filter socks, what micron and are they mesh or felt?

 

[Roberto Yoneda]

In two tanks I’m using felt filter socks. I already got felt 200 micron socks and I’ll replace the socks next week.
In the hospital AIO tank, a very thick sponge in the first chamber.
I hope I could help you.

What are you using for mechanical filtration? If filter socks, what micron and are they mesh or felt?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Well, I’m engineer and I beleive I don’t need to learn sciense to see if my tank water is crystal clear and to understand my water test results. I think it’s the same with with the fellow reefers here and for amazon reviwers.

OK.

I'm a scientist, and I generally want to see evidence of some sort when someone claims one product is as good or better than another.

Edit:

I don't agree with your assertions, but I see little point in fighting about it.

I will just say that Purigen is not a new product. it's been around more than 15 years, reefers have tried it, some like it, some don't think it the best choice.

 

[Roberto Yoneda]

No problem Randy, you don’t need to agree with my assertions, we are in a free country.
And non offensive comments are very welcome.
This is a forum and I think one of the forum purposes are to share good and bad experiences.
As I wrote, I’m using Purigen combined with de*nitrate and matrix, so I’m describing my great results using the three products combined, not only purigen.
I have evidences of my great results in my three tanks. You don’t need to agree or beleive, it’s up to you.
Are there better ways to get crystal clear water ? Cheaper or not, easier or not, I beleive there are many methods to get crystal clear water. If you allow me, I just want to share my experience and try to contribute with another fellow reefers.
And as a scientist, you could try the experience before criticizing threads and posts, specially from new reefers.
I hope I don’t need to reply your offensive messages again. You made my experience in this forum very unpleasant because you don’t have evidences of the three products combined and sent me offensive messages.

 

[Roberto Yoneda]

I forgot the most important point: we are far away, I’m in CA and you in MA but someday, if you come to CA, I invite you to come to visit me at my home and allow me to show my tanks and talk about our great hobby.
Just send me a private message.

No problem Randy, you don’t need to agree with my assertions, we are in a free country.
And non offensive comments are very welcome.
This is a forum and I think one of the forum purposes are to share good and bad experiences.
As I wrote, I’m using Purigen combined with de*nitrate and matrix, so I’m describing my great results using the three products combined, not only purigen.
I have evidences of my great results in my three tanks. You don’t need to agree or beleive, it’s up to you.
Are there better ways to get crystal clear water ? Cheaper or not, easier or not, I beleive there are many methods to get crystal clear water. If you allow me, I just want to share my experience and try to contribute with another fellow reefers.
And as a scientist, you could try the experience before criticizing threads and posts, specially from new reefers.
I hope I don’t need to reply your offensive messages again. You made my experience in this forum very unpleasant because you don’t have evidences of the three products combined and sent me offensive messages.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Sorry, I have not meant my posts to be offensive.

I do mean them to be constructive and instructive to others reading this thread who may have far less experience or understanding of the methods and products being discussed. The reef world is filled with posts where people claim all sorts of things. My entire purpose for spending so much time and effort reading and writing reef chemistry comments is to ensure they they are not technically incorrect (not saying that happened here, but it is very often the case) or may be saying something that could have alternate interpretations than was posted (also very common)

I will stop replying here unless there is something new added that I disagree with, since I have said my piece.

 

[MnFish1]

I don’t know any carbon that can reduce organic waste, so I think there are more advantages using Purigem than carbon. As I wrote, carbon must be replaced every month, purigem I just need to soak in bleach and it’s ready to go again.

What organic waste does carbon not remove? Thanks

 

[Roberto Yoneda]

No problem Randy.
Many years ago, I was in Japan where my family owns a hot spring, hotel and restaurant in the same place.
I decided to try to learn how to make good sushi and worked together with the restaurant chief a couple of days.
Some day, the chief told me: “It’s easy to make good food (sushi) with good stuff (fish fillets). I want to see if you (me) can make good sushi with fish remains”. I don’t know if you eat sushi but if you eat, check the fish inside the sushi rolls. Almost of the restaurants make sushi with fish remais. In other countries, people throw away fish remains.
In our hobby, it’s more easy to get the perfect tank spending tons of money and breaking the bank. And sometimes, even breaking the bank we don’t get the results we want. I try to make my hobby more affordable.
Hope to see you in CA.

Sorry, I have not meant my posts to be offensive.

I do mean them to be constructive and instructive to others reading this thread who may have far less experience or understanding of the methods and products being discussed. The reef world is filled with posts where people claim all sorts of things. My entire purpose for spending so much time and effort reading and writing reef chemistry comments is to ensure they they are not technically incorrect (not saying that happened here, but it is very often the case) or may be saying something that could have alternate interpretations than was posted (also very common)

I will stop reply here unless there is something new added that I disagree with, since I have said my piece.

 

[MnFish1]

What organic waste does carbon not remove? And added to that - What makes you certain that purigen is 'less expensive' than carbon (since that was your main concern - when you take in the cost of regeneration, your time/effort the bleach, chlorine remover recommended for removing the bleach, etc).

 

[blkhwkz]

Offensive because he has a different view than you? Maybe you should look into Randy's background a little bit before you think you know more than him. As a new hobbyist it would be good to read a lot of the articles he has written and learn what you can from him.

 

[Roberto Yoneda]

It’s not because the different view and not about difference of view.
Follow the messages.
I’m writing about crystal clear water, not about (doubts) “my method” to reduce amonia, nitrite, nitrate and phosphate.
I described the combination I did, not only purigen. But the main discussion was purigen.
I’m writing about my results and what kind of evidence do you guys need ? Aren’t results (water clarity and tests) evidences ?
And to enjoy this hobby, do we need to be a scientist ?
All amazon reviewers are lying ?
Replying your question, what makes purigen less expensive? Again, I’m not writing about only purigen. Your asnwer I already wrote in my first post.
If someone don’t agree or beleive, it’s up to anyone here.
I’m not writing fantasies, my results are real.
If I can help anoyone here, I’m glad. If I can’t, I won’t try to contribute.
I’m new in this forum but not in this hobby.

 

[Robink]

I have crystal clear water. No carbon, no gfo, just skimmer and filter socks.

 

[Roberto Yoneda]

Thanks for sharing !
What about your water tests ?

I have crystal clear water. No carbon, no gfo, just skimmer and filter socks.