Corals are Struggling While dosing silicates

brandon429

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Garrett it’s tank cleaning where zero waste is left in the tank is all


and it’s harmless, all we do is wash out yucky sand it’s in the link I provided as a phenomenal job two nanos just did with pics, see Sadie’s tank thread Post #11

It may save your reef one day.


washing out waste from the sand, and all detritus, and all invasion cells is what we do/ super cleaning. Then we take the fully clean tank and quit starving it: we initiate spot feeding for two months as we put back on mass on his corals and all his photos will show it as Sadie did.

Instead of taking weeks to wait for mass to hopefully recede from our dosers, animals or actions, what we do is remove it all at once as a focused cleaning because nano reefs aren’t that hard to clean compared to large tanks. And the outcome is gold, there’s no downside. It’s perfection

*one reason not to do a rip clean exists though: by skipping the coaxed natural win, by param adjustment or dosers or ideal animal grazing, and instead forcing a win overnite via a rip clean, we lose out on the tuning practice that could one day help large tankers with dinos.


I’m directly advising to shortcut the costly experiment here, and choose a mode ive done five thousand times on file instead that fixes the tank overnite so we can then blast feed it and bring your corals back. But if the OP wants to wait further, press corals even closer to loss so that he can learn hands off tuning, well then an expensive lesson is coming and also potentially a win, but nobody says what date his tank will be fixed if he continues hands off.

I could have it fixed by ten am tomorrow if the will exists.


I recommend: rip clean the tank because of the after pics we show. He wants that for his tank.


and then, knowing dinos are likely to try and mass back, he then experiments with all these params and dosing and animals and water glass as *prevention* but not *removal* of an invasion.

He will always hand remove any masses that surpassed his prevention effort.

what the masses want us to do: please fill your tank with as much mass as humanly possible, then seek ways to kill it, absorb it into the tank somehow, and let the translocated mass now feed two years of GHA algae.


Team, read the 450 page dinos thread...It’s 99% tradeoffs into completely wrecked gha tanks, I noticed they were so happy to get free of dinos after two years hesitation mode they’d gladly accept any counter invasion so long as it wasn’t dinos.


we are so opposite of that. Make use of the small size of a nano, use the inherent accessibility to absolutely stop your loss right now.


nano reef invasions are 100% psychology and 0% biology in remedy.

Everything I’ve typed above that will fix his tank is a yes / no option set.


Yes, I do want those after pics and weeks of control I read in Sadie’s thread or no: I do not want those outcomes compared to my last three months with this tank.


It’s a choice… biology comes in the prevention regrowth step. Owning a non invaded nano requires only will, not ability to prevent. We should all quit accepting tank loss where preventable. We clean it up first, then experiment with growback preventions - this saves coral.
 
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GarrettT

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See post 1712 & 1713

Shortly after that picture was taken (month of cleaning), I decided to remove all the sand and replaced it with new sand. Dino’s came back 1-2 weeks later. Not discounting your advice, as everyone’s tank is different, but I can say it didn’t work in my case.

You are right about the GHA. That is why I suggested keeping po4 between .03-0.1ppm and no3 slightly above 2.5ppm. I would absolutely continue to dose silicate if the dino’s are indeed dino’s and not now diatoms by now.

All that said, This type of dino should have zero impact on your corals. If you are having coral loss, it’s not from dinos, but from another source.
 

brandon429

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Team check this lineage out.


that’s March, a long time res publica has been throwing ideas to him

Three months
hes tried everything other than what’s linked below.

I want the op to get it bootcamped as we see here following. The public had three months to get it fixed.

Garrett* I like that you posted a work thread it’s fully relevant here. It provides options, that’s the largest dinos collection work on the web to analyze. Full size reefs, nanos, all in there doing hands off. Once they tune that method, the invasions will stop for all. And in the meantime, I wouldn’t say they score much above 30% ideal fix rate.


Just to compare after pics, scroll through our rip clean afters, these are super cleaned tanks:

the downside was, we wasted an ocean worth of water in all that sand rinsing, efficiency= out the window. Brute force, in.
 

brandon429

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We prep his rocks differently than you did

rip cleans have a rock prep phase that uses peroxide lots of times, applied outside the tank.


agreed growback is possible, but we wouldn’t allow it so his tank couldn’t ever wreck again. what changes the course of his reef is the refusal to ever allow this second cleaned up round to revert back to invaded



it won’t turn back into wrecked over nite you have to run passive mode several weeks for dinos to ever gain footing again. He w be spot removing dinos as they come back and letting y’all prescribe all kinds of additives etc. you’ll be working strictly from the uninvaded condition.
 
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Davisc1293

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Silicate will remedy the Dino’s that develope on sand. No need to rip it clean. Also, be aware, when the diatoms take over and dominate the dino’s, it will still look much like dino’s. It will be hard to tell them apart. It’s always best to use a microscope to verify. Cerith snails will help remove the diatom algae. If Dino’s are primary on live rock, get a UV sterlizer. Night and day difference. Keep po4 around 0.03-1.0ppm and no3 above 2.5ppm. I personally would monitor the silicate. I was amazed at how high my levels got when dosing even small amounts. Everyone’s tank is different though.
I have a silicate test which reads between 1-3 but ive heard salifert is unreliable for SI and my phosphate tests may not be as high as i think because ive also read hanna reads high while dosing silicates.
 

brandon429

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Hey D would you post an updated full tank shot those often have details unspoken that can help your tank get options. Show us all the pain man, as a full tank picture.
 
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Davisc1293

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Ive only been dosing silicates a few weeks and got a more potent form (waterglass) even more recently. Just within the last 4 days am i seeing any kind of obvious reading from my si tests but i do microscope often and while i rly dont know what im looking for what im seeing hasnt changed and someone ID them as large sell amph.
 
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Davisc1293

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I can take some pictures when i get home from work before I do my nightly sand syphoning through a 5 micron filter sock.
 

vetteguy53081

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Keep it simple and not sure myself why the silicates.
Prepare by starting with a water change and blow this stuff loose with a turkey baster and siphon up loose particles.
Turn lights off (at least white and run blue at 10-15% IF you have light dependant corals) for 5 days and at night dose 1ml of 3% hydrogen peroxide per 10 gallons for all 5 nights. If you dont have light dependent coral- turn all lights off.
During the day dose 1ml of liquid bacteria (such as bacter 7 or XLM) per 10 gallons.
Clean filters daily and DO NOT FEED CORAL FOODS OR ADD NOPOX as it is food for dinos.
Day 5,, you can start with blue lights - ramping up and work your white lights up slowly
 

GarrettT

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i rly dont know what im looking for what im seeing hasnt changed and someone ID them as large sell amph.
79B57132-760B-4EE9-9E51-9F69BA09AC27.jpeg

You should be seeing more diatoms than dinos at this point.
 

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Dosing silicates will encourage diatom growth. Are you sure of what exactly is currently growing in the tank?
If your corals are suffering, I suggest a water change and then test ALL parameters and post here.
Hopefully that will help in finding a solution.
and sponges, I know for a fact, I have well water and battle silicates, and sponges flourish
 
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Davisc1293

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Keep it simple and not sure myself why the silicates.
Prepare by starting with a water change and blow this stuff loose with a turkey baster and siphon up loose particles.
Turn lights off (at least white and run blue at 10-15% IF you have light dependant corals) for 5 days and at night dose 1ml of 3% hydrogen peroxide per 10 gallons for all 5 nights. If you dont have light dependent coral- turn all lights off.
During the day dose 1ml of liquid bacteria (such as bacter 7 or XLM) per 10 gallons.
Clean filters daily and DO NOT FEED CORAL FOODS OR ADD NOPOX as it is food for dinos.
Day 5,, you can start with blue lights - ramping up and work your white lights up slowly
I really do appreciate the advise, we all like simple. However, I've tried this method several times in the past 4-6 months and it simply did not work for me.
 

brandon429

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Davis Well I see it’s not required to post at all. the only factors we need to ensure you get these after pics are:

1. its a nano
2. I agree to rinse the sand in tap water no matter how crazy this sounds, without fail, for hours, because I acknowledge posting a cloudy after pic in a rip clean thread is a federal crime and I can directly see the benefits of prep rinse in all study materials.


heh

and if those two rules are followed, and all the holding steps, rock preps, tank washes that Danno and Sadie show in our example thread in post #11 are followed these are after pics you can expect for tanks your size:

@shadow_k

21522B7C-6D3B-45DB-A840-A55259E02269.jpeg

06AC866A-5004-4AAC-BFA1-6753F61E84A3.jpeg



WVU247:

7D7E535E-AAC0-47E1-8079-C42348E3173A.jpeg

2C411C40-97C6-47AE-B542-F45AC5E37C0E.jpeg


396D906A-4FCD-4B04-A55E-E353B989C931.jpeg


and the wow after pic
37B19839-6982-4ACE-B0C9-2C56D799E827.jpeg
 
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brandon429

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I’m editing in pre and post rip clean before and after pics from 30 gallon systems itll take a sec

itll take you about six hours of work start to finish. Two hours of that is the sand rinse, not a joke

Gator_Reefer:
1B7587C5-C24E-4B75-81C2-2A52A0139F85.jpeg

680245DA-293F-48E3-A049-F5C29132ED9E.png


Rip cleaned tanks look empty of water they're so clear.
 
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Davisc1293

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and sponges, I know for a fact, I have well water and battle silicates, and sponges flourish
I am still seeing primarily the large cells but I am noticing a lot more sponge in the past week or 2 they look like Mercedes symbols. I had to research that one when I first found it.
 

vetteguy53081

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79B57132-760B-4EE9-9E51-9F69BA09AC27.jpeg

You should be seeing more diatoms than dinos at this point.
Diatoms look like glass shards and agree diatoms.
Diatoms look ugly but in most cases they are harmless so the key is to not panic when they appear.
Diatoms feed mainly off of silicates but also consume dissolved organic compounds, phosphate and nitrates. Unfiltered tap water can contain silicates and is a good way to jump start a bloom if you use it to mix salt or to replace water that evaporated from the tank. The best way to prevent this from happening is to filter water through a RODI unit, although you can still get a diatom bloom when using RODI if the cartridge that removes silicates expires.
Diatoms are typically harmless to a captive reef and can be beaten once their food source expires. Once you put the kibosh on the source, the outbreak should last a couple of weeks so just be patient and it will pass.

For major outbreaks you may want to consider the three day blackout. Diatoms are easily wiped from the glass with a mag float, a turkey baster or a toothbrush can access other areas of the tank. Be prepared for them to re-establish themselves quickly, they are likely to be able to resettle and have exponential growth rates.
To prevent their return, practice good aquarium husbandry by doing regular water changes, keep the substrate clean, don’t overfeed the fish, ensure your skimmer is running at an optimal level and rinse out filter socks and sponges on a regular basis.
Some cleaner crew to help control it are : Cerith snails, Nerite snails and Trochus snails and also Astraea snails are effective at removing diatoms.
 

vetteguy53081

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I really do appreciate the advise, we all like simple. However, I've tried this method several times in the past 4-6 months and it simply did not work for me.
Be sure you siphon of you havenet. Blackout always works. If not, is your Di resin expired or leeching?
I assume youre not using tap water?
Is tank at or near windoww?

Things that can make diatoms last longer in your tank include:
  • Overfeeding the fish
  • Improperly treated water
  • Insufficient filtration
  • Lack of water changes
Protein skimmers also help.
 

GarrettT

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don’t have a good photo of mine but here’s a photo I took indirectly before it got really out of hand.
CF5F1B4C-507C-4D79-B046-23935E8DF7C0.jpeg

BD2B2FC2-26E9-4884-8464-5E184EAF1440.jpg

92207A30-49DD-46CD-BC10-09F03F47039E.jpg
 
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brandon429

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Those pics are handy to tie in macro view with cell view/ species
 
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