Convert All for Reef dosing to Kalkwasser

[Risk1994]

• I have a 100g tank dosing 60ml All for Reef daily to maintain alk at 9. I'd like to switch to Kalkwasser.
• How much saturated Kalkwasser (assuming 2tsp per gallon) would I need to maintain that same level of Alk?

* Yes I realize kalk will also increase Calcium, but as they both increase alk/cal roughly equally I just tend to use alk as my measurement.

I dont really know my daily consumption of alk as I built up to that 60ml/day level over a year. I'd like to avoid any swings so I need a ball park amount to start adding kalk. I've tried doing the calculations but getting myself confused.

I've been reading Randy Holmes-Farley's method of dosing Kalk and plan to start doing the same.

 

[MartinM]

I don’t know the exact correlation but I know it’ll be much more (potentially liters as opposed to mL), likely more than your evaporation rate.

 

[areefer01]

• I have a 100g tank dosing 60ml All for Reef daily to maintain alk at 9. I'd like to switch to Kalkwasser.
• How much saturated Kalkwasser (assuming 2tsp per gallon) would I need to maintain that same level of Alk?

* Yes I realize kalk will also increase Calcium, but as they both increase alk/cal roughly equally I just tend to use alk as my measurement.

I dont really know my daily consumption of alk as I built up to that 60ml/day level over a year. I'd like to avoid any swings so I need a ball park amount to start adding kalk. I've tried doing the calculations but getting myself confused.

I've been reading Randy Holmes-Farley's method of dosing Kalk and plan to start doing the same.

Not the same products. If Ca, Alk, and Mg are at the levels you want use a calculator and go from there.

 

[Risk1994]

Need to know the daily Alk requirement to use the calculator, I dont have this. What I have is the daily all for reef usage rate of 60ml. I'll have to work backwards from there if I dont want to go experimenting and having levels all over the place. Trying to start with a rough idea of what I need.


Tropic marin shows this...

looks like 19ml = .28 dH increase per day for 100gallons. So triple that would be very roughly .8dH daily consumption in my tank.

If I use the calculator here It shows if I want to increase dkh by .8 I would need .7 gallons of saturated limewater....

So if my reasoning is correct .7 gallons saturated limewater will increase my alk by .8dkh which is roughly my consumption based on my backwards calc of my All for Reef dosing of 60ml per day.

I'm not sure about my evaporation rate exactly either but is somewhere south of 1 gallon per day so this my meet my needs.

Does this sound right?

 

[areefer01]

Need to know the daily Alk requirement to use the calculator, I dont have this.

You either do have it or you can obtain it. Do you test for ALK (manual or automated)? You must because you are dosing.

Basically you are testing for ALK and Ca at the same time each test using the same test kit. This is for consistency. Then you look at the data and the trend. You will see a pattern if your display is consuming or you will see it hold steady. Could be water change is enough. Could be whatever you are dosing is enough. Whatever you are doing you had to start somewhere to get the initial dose.

If you don't know this then test daily until you do for both Alk and Ca. Math is fun.

 

[Risk1994]

Im not doing a good job explaining my issue....

• I know how much AFR I need to dose to maintain my alk/ca levels. I know this because I test regularly...

• How do I find out how much alk/cal am I consuming each day?

Do you see my issue? I'll need to stop dosing so I can track my tanks daily usage rate. I was trying to avoid this as it will case my levels to swing. Im trying to make an educated guess on my usage rate as a starting point so I dont need to swing my levels more than necessary. As it is I'll be unstable for a while as I dial in the kalk usage...I'd like to avoid adding insult to injury by deliberatly causing a swing just so I can test usage rates. There must be a way to ball park my usage rate based on how much AFR Im currently using.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Im not doing a good job explaining my issue....

• I know how much AFR I need to dose to maintain my alk/ca levels. I know this because I test regularly...

• How do I find out how much alk/cal am I consuming each day?

Do you see my issue? I'll need to stop dosing so I can track my tanks daily usage rate. I was trying to avoid this as it will case my levels to swing. Im trying to make an educated guess on my usage rate as a starting point so I dont need to swing my levels more than necessary. As it is I'll be unstable for a while as I dial in the kalk usage...I'd like to avoid adding insult to injury by deliberatly causing a swing just so I can test usage rates. There must be a way to ball park my usage rate based on how much AFR Im currently using.

You are consuming what you add. No need to do anything else. The trick is converting AFR mL into alk and calcium. TM does not make this easy.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

From this thread, I determined that adding 0.1% of the tank volume boosts alk by 5.6 dKH and calcium by 40 ppm.

Tropic Marin All for reef dosing calculations

So I have a 20g water box cube and my dkh drops about .2 per day. How much of the tropic Marin all for reef will increase it? But with all my rocks and coral it’s probably more like 17-18 gallons.

www.reef2reef.com

Thus, adding 0.1 gallons (378 mL) to 100 gallons boosts alk by 5.6 dKH and calcium by 40 ppm.

You are adding 60 mL, so that is 0.16 times those amounts or 0.9 dKH per day.

That is added by 2.95 liters of saturated limewater (kalkwasser) added to that same 100 gallons.

Bear in mind demand may rise as the pH rises, so you will likely need more than this to amintaint the same alk.

 

[shwareefer]

The concentrations for All-For-Reef solutions, no matter whether bought as solution or self-prepared from All-For-Reef Powder, are 43000 ppm calcium, Ca, 6000 dKH per liter alkalinity (as alkalinity-precursors), 1900 ppm magnesium, Mg, 780 ppm strontium, Sr and 34 ppm iodine, I.

This means for example 10 ml contain 60 dKH alkalinity and dosed to 100 l/26.4 US-gallon of water it raises the alkalinity by 0.6 dKH.

Found this quote but looks like RHF already figured it out.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Found this quote but looks like RHF already figured it out.

Curious that those numbers are a little different than BRS provides.

 

[shwareefer]

Curious that those numbers are a little different than BRS provides.

I don't use or follow the product but I assumed his concentration of activity around TM meant he was an employee or insider that has correct information.

 

[bobnicaragua]

I’ve always used kalk on my tank, but it can no longer keep up with demand. So, I’m now using kalk and carbocalcium (carbocalcium is basically all for reef without the trace or magnesium)

I recommend dosing saturated kalk at right below your evaporation rate. I have a second smaller reservoir for auto top off.

Even without a calculator, it sounds like you have pretty good demand. Just stop the all for reef and start dosing saturated kalk at right below your evaporation rate. Test your alkalinity the same time every day for a few days and adjust accordingly.

As long as you are dosing the kalk slowly, like continuously on a versa or every hour on a dosing pump, you won’t have any huge swings in one day. Based on your consumption of all for reef, I bet you’re nearing the limits of kalkwasser.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I don't use or follow the product but I assumed his concentration of activity around TM meant he was an employee or insider that has correct information.

Yes, Hans Werner is an expert at TM and is expected to be very knowledgeable about TM products. He may even be the inventor. He is the inventor of the Balling method. But I'd also expect the info TM provides to BRS to be accurate. lol

 

[Risk1994]

You are adding 60 mL, so that is 0.16 times those amounts or 0.9 dKH per day.

That is added by 2.95 liters of saturated limewater (kalkwasser) added to that same 100 gallons.

So thats about .7 gallons of saturated kalkwasser daily. Thats the same number I came up with above. Thanks so much for that, good to have another set of eyes!

Just stop the all for reef and start dosing saturated kalk at right below your evaporation rate. Test your alkalinity the same time every day for a few days and adjust accordingly.

As long as you are dosing the kalk slowly, like continuously on a versa or every hour on a dosing pump, you won’t have any huge swings in one day. Based on your consumption of all for reef, I bet you’re nearing the limits of kalkwasser.

My plan now is to dose .5 gallons overnight using BRS 50ml/min dosing pump. Takes 35 mins to get .5 gallons up to the DT. Ill run it in three 10 minute blocks between say 11pm and 10am when PH is lowest (chart below).

Pretty sure this wont be enough but probably not too far off and I can adjust from there.

Randy Im starting out with a 5g bucket with 2tsp per gallon, and will just let it sit like you do, with the dosing pump line above the slurry. How long do you mix up the kalk before letting it sit? Do you just swirl around for a minute or 2 by hand then wait for it to settle? Also how long do you let it sit before using?

 

[Hans-Werner]

Curious that those numbers are a little different than BRS provides.

It is because we increased the concentrations a bit around the time we started to offer the powder products. The BRS numbers were correct but they are not the most up-to-date numbers.

@Lou Ekus has good contact to BRS. I will ask him to check and ask them to update the numbers.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Thanks, Hans-Werner.

 

[jimmypencil]

So thats about .7 gallons of saturated kalkwasser daily. Thats the same number I came up with above. Thanks so much for that, good to have another set of eyes!



My plan now is to dose .5 gallons overnight using BRS 50ml/min dosing pump. Takes 35 mins to get .5 gallons up to the DT. Ill run it in three 10 minute blocks between say 11pm and 10am when PH is lowest (chart below).

Pretty sure this wont be enough but probably not too far off and I can adjust from there.

Randy Im starting out with a 5g bucket with 2tsp per gallon, and will just let it sit like you do, with the dosing pump line above the slurry. How long do you mix up the kalk before letting it sit? Do you just swirl around for a minute or 2 by hand then wait for it to settle? Also how long do you let it sit before using?

also curious about stirring the kalk and how long to let it sit, did you ever figure this out? very helpful thread over all.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

also curious about stirring the kalk and how long to let it sit, did you ever figure this out? very helpful thread over all.

What is your question specifically about stirring? I generally stirred mine for a few minutes and let it settle overnight.

 

[jimmypencil]

What is your question specifically about stirring? I generally stirred mine for a few minutes and let it settle overnight.

That answers my question, thanks!

another question that i have - just started a new tank a couple weeks ago and i know ill probably need to dose kalk at some point down the road to keep my ph close to 8.3 at the peak because im ranging from 7.75-7.95 currently. apparently there is some ph instability while bacteria is forming in newer tanks, youre the man on here so let me know if thats correct lol. my kh has been between 9.5-9.9 and i only have some leathers, gsp, and favia in there currently. so in order for me to safely add kalkwasser to the tank for ph bennefits, i will have to wait until i have enough lps or sps corals that consume enough alk to dose kalkwasser? i just am hesitant to add a bunch of corals...that need stability...in order to achieve stability lol.

i will use the echotech dosing pump when the time comes. so (based on what ive read in the past week or so) i will have to determine my daily kh consumption, and then dose the amount of kalkwasser to replenish? i also see that theres the method where you dose double your evaporation daily but i was really confused from that article.

 

[jimmypencil]

That answers my question, thanks!

another question that i have - just started a new tank a couple weeks ago and i know ill probably need to dose kalk at some point down the road to keep my ph close to 8.3 at the peak because im ranging from 7.75-7.95 currently. apparently there is some ph instability while bacteria is forming in newer tanks, youre the man on here so let me know if thats correct lol. my kh has been between 9.5-9.9 and i only have some leathers, gsp, and favia in there currently. so in order for me to safely add kalkwasser to the tank for ph bennefits, i will have to wait until i have enough lps or sps corals that consume enough alk to dose kalkwasser? i just am hesitant to add a bunch of corals...that need stability...in order to achieve stability lol.

i will use the echotech dosing pump when the time comes. so (based on what ive read in the past week or so) i will have to determine my daily kh consumption, and then dose the amount of kalkwasser to replenish? i also see that theres the method where you dose double your evaporation daily but i was really confused from that article.

bumping this