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I'll keep that in mind. Is it spacial issue, or water stability? The top search results agree on a 30gal minimum for frogfish, but I know they're not always totally right.
Considering saltwater... on a budget
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No I just personally find predators kinda boring lol and it sucks having to buy live foods or thawing giant silversides. I had a wartskin angler once and it was BORING lol. I had a 40b once and it housed a dwarf angel, Royal gramma, yellow watchman goby, and a bangaii cardinal - made for a fun tank full of movement.
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Got you! I was thinking about that. Frogfish are awesome, but I did have that issue with keeping a single axolotl in there, would love a more active-looking tank. And the feeding too.
Clowns got good personalities, but can get exceptionally mean later on in life. I don’t think ocellaris get that bad though and are very hardy and generally disease resistant. You can get a pair small and watch them grow up to! Goby’s are a blast but need a good sandbed that’s older and mature
@Jrain904 I’m actually headed to Tampa tomorrow to pick up base coralline rock and a tailspot blenny. If you want any rock without having to pay for shipping, I could probably pick it up for you
@Jrain904 I’m actually headed to Tampa tomorrow to pick up base coralline rock and a tailspot blenny. If you want any rock without having to pay for shipping, I could probably pick it up for you
Even going relatively simple for a 40 breeder reef tank is going to cost alot.
$100 a gallon is a good rule imo for the lifetime realistic cost.
i just set up a simple 40 breeder with a mid range light, an ato ,a skimmer, a filter, a wave maker, RODI unit and heater. Already over a grand there. Live rock was about $350 live sand around $50.
Thats before a cycle or test kits or fish food or medicine or additives or other hardware you know is coming.
i had a 20 gallon saltwater reef tank in college but I also had a good job and good bet of saved up money.
$100 a gallon is a good rule imo for the lifetime realistic cost.
i just set up a simple 40 breeder with a mid range light, an ato ,a skimmer, a filter, a wave maker, RODI unit and heater. Already over a grand there. Live rock was about $350 live sand around $50.
Thats before a cycle or test kits or fish food or medicine or additives or other hardware you know is coming.
i had a 20 gallon saltwater reef tank in college but I also had a good job and good bet of saved up money.
Out of curiosity, how much jointly were the ato, skimmer, light, and rodi unit?
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I had a 40 breeder reef in college and I think it cost me around $500 before corals and fish. I bought used equipment and I bought cheap fish and bought corals off locals and not overpriced online venders. I did go with all dry rock though due to budget and had to go through the uglies.
Even my 80g I have now wasn’t that bad because I bought used gear, a 4 foot 6 bulb ATI used was $200, my regal skimmer was $100 and so on… a fraction of the price of new and they work just fine.
My expensive part is probably my fish
While I am too cheap to buy a new skimmer, I can easily blow a few 100 on a fish.
Even my 80g I have now wasn’t that bad because I bought used gear, a 4 foot 6 bulb ATI used was $200, my regal skimmer was $100 and so on… a fraction of the price of new and they work just fine.
My expensive part is probably my fish
While I am too cheap to buy a new skimmer, I can easily blow a few 100 on a fish.
Oh yea! If you have a local community of reefers you can find great deals on used equipment. Usually a minimum of 50% off!!I had a 40 breeder reef in college and I think it cost me around $500 before corals and fish. I bought used equipment and I bought cheap fish and bought corals off locals and not overpriced online venders. I did go with all dry rock though due to budget and had to go through the uglies.
Even my 80g I have now wasn’t that bad because I bought used gear, a 4 foot 6 bulb ATI used was $200, my regal skimmer was $100 and so on… a fraction of the price of new and they work just fine.
My expensive part is probably my fish
Yeah, those aren’t cheap. I started without any of them and still don’t have any of them except a light, and went with a used T5 for $75
Get a drop in aio kit for your 40b for like 200-300 and most everything else takes so much time you should be fine.
i’m in a fowlr 20 on hob equipment rn piecing togrther and finding what I need for filtering and chemistry instead of jumping on the fotm.
As I piece together new checkpoints and projects I slowly trickle in what I need to mitigate upfront cost dit where possible if it saves cost.
all my fish are happy my algae is starting to be active going into my uglies now on a dry rock setup.
it’s a marathon not a sprint.
i’m in a fowlr 20 on hob equipment rn piecing togrther and finding what I need for filtering and chemistry instead of jumping on the fotm.
As I piece together new checkpoints and projects I slowly trickle in what I need to mitigate upfront cost dit where possible if it saves cost.
all my fish are happy my algae is starting to be active going into my uglies now on a dry rock setup.
it’s a marathon not a sprint.
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Ran a 55g fish only in the 80s with nothing more than an undergravel and air pump. Don’t get more budget friendly than that. Low maintenance as well. Thick enough bed and maturity and no WC needed either. Maturity take time but mine leveled off to around 20 ppm nitrates. No clue on phosphates but no nuisance algae either. Likely the latter because my lights too weak but did have a large Sabae that lived several months until one bad grocery store shrimp resulted in its demise. Lots of fish too.
An option are African cichlids if seeking color without much fuzz although canister or HOB needed as they will dig holes and make that UG useless. KISS isn’t just about money either. Some of us don’t have the extra time, either.
An option are African cichlids if seeking color without much fuzz although canister or HOB needed as they will dig holes and make that UG useless. KISS isn’t just about money either. Some of us don’t have the extra time, either.
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Honest reply - I did reefing in college when costs were 1/4 as much as today.... And it was a pain then. This hobby has inital start up costs but also ongoing costs that never end. Imo, wait until it's a priority. College is #1 rn.
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So honestly, the more I read, the less concerned I become about costs and more about my health. I'm surprised at the amount of potentially dangerous things that can find their way into SW tanks. I knew zoanthids were toxic but didn't realize the contamination risk --- I've seen some horror stories! I wouldn't keep zoas of any kind, but in one story I read they hitchhiked in on the rock and poisoned the person's family.
I don't know how common some of the more unwelcome/dangerous hitchhikers are, but even the rare stuff happens to someone eventually. I don't have any kind of health insurance and would really rather not chance any accidents with potentially toxic pests.
I don't know how common some of the more unwelcome/dangerous hitchhikers are, but even the rare stuff happens to someone eventually. I don't have any kind of health insurance and would really rather not chance any accidents with potentially toxic pests.
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Lifetime cost I'm not so worried about, repeating expenses are way easier for me than one huge chunk of money upfront. In any case, I'm the type to spend $600-$900 upfront on a single guitar, and planned to spend as much on a new camera lens sometime this year. So I don't think I should be too worried either way lol
Yeah... from what I've gathered, if you are super concerned, just don't boil any rocks to sterilize (bleach or vinegar + air drying sterilizes) and wear elbow length gloves. I think it is only a problem with open wounds and inhalationSo honestly, the more I read, the less concerned I become about costs and more about my health. I'm surprised at the amount of potentially dangerous things that can find their way into SW tanks. I knew zoanthids were toxic but didn't realize the contamination risk --- I've seen some horror stories! I wouldn't keep zoas of any kind, but in one story I read they hitchhiked in on the rock and poisoned the person's family.
I don't know how common some of the more unwelcome/dangerous hitchhikers are, but even the rare stuff happens to someone eventually. I don't have any kind of health insurance and would really rather not chance any accidents with potentially toxic pests.
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Well, there's a couple problems: one, I almost always have at least small cuts on my hands, no idea how half of them get there but they do. Two, I'm a small person, and I'm not sure there's a pair of elbow-length gloves on this earth that would fit me. I'd honestly probably need shoulder-length. I'm used to doing everything barehanded, open cuts or not, which I already don't love doing in freshwater lol.
Question about sterilization: isn't the point of live rock that it's already established? Wouldn't sterilization kill any beneficial inhabitants too?
Very good to know about boiling. In the story I read the person exposed the rock to anhydrous salt. I'd still be worried about the toxin aerosolizing, as I've read it can do this pretty effectively? Would I need to actually have zoas for that to be a risk?
Zoas and palys both (palytoxin). I always have a ton of cuts and scrapes too cause I work in construction and am rough on my hands. Every now and then I put some neosporin on, but I have yet to have any big issues not using gloves (I’ve also only been doing this for less than a year
I sterilized a bunch of decorative stuff and my whole system minus the rock back in December and threw out the sand, the tank got really nasty and there was literal rotting food all over the bottom due to lack of proper care, I did not know then what I know now, when I move my tank or am putting old equipment back in, I try to clean it well and sterilize it. Live rock is where most of your bio filtration is. I just like cleaning something all the way if I’m going to mess with it
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So honestly, the more I read, the less concerned I become about costs and more about my health. I'm surprised at the amount of potentially dangerous things that can find their way into SW tanks. I knew zoanthids were toxic but didn't realize the contamination risk --- I've seen some horror stories! I wouldn't keep zoas of any kind, but in one story I read they hitchhiked in on the rock and poisoned the person's family.
I don't know how common some of the more unwelcome/dangerous hitchhikers are, but even the rare stuff happens to someone eventually. I don't have any kind of health insurance and would really rather not chance any accidents with potentially toxic pests.
it’s not a real concern. You are much more likely to be killed in a car than any sort of creature in your tank (unless you snort the zoas or boil them).
So unless you plan to never get in a car again and live in a bubble avoiding all the 100s of things more likely to kill you…
this fear is just not from a rational place.
It’s like how cleaning products are dangerous if you drink them. It doesn’t mean you would never own a cleaning product, it just means you wouldn’t drink them.
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