Clownfish disease id

[blecki]

Morning, so, about a week ago my yellow tang broke out in ich. I have no idea how I got it or if it was just dormant in the tank, but I've dealt with it before so I pulled everyone to the hospital tank and started hyposalinity treatment. Brought them down to .009 over three days. Ich appeared on my sailfin and coral beauty during this process but has since cleared up. Ammonia got as high as 1ppm during the die off in the rock I'm using; it was controlled with prime and water changes the entire time and is currently 0.25 and dropping. Nobody currently has what I think are ich spots.

But, last night, after a water change on the hospital tank, my black clown was covered in these hanging translucent things. They appeared in a matter of minutes, during the water change. She's never liked water changes and I was doing a lot of large ones close together to control the ammonia, so I assume she was pretty stressed. It's been about 12 hours with no changes. Since these things appeared, she's been hiding in corners and did not eat when I fed the tank. She had a similar dangling... thing... a few days ago, which vanished. The coral beauty also has 1 (just 1) and the sailfin might have had one that cleared; fish never let me get a good look.

There is no loss of color. The two tangs both got freshwater dips when I moved them to the hospital tank but the clown did not. I've had this fish for 8 years, not a new fish; she's a nasty little black widow and bully usually. I assume the carriers that introduced any possible disease are the chromis that came out of quarantine about 2 weeks before the ich appeared.

 

[vetteguy53081]

Morning, so, about a week ago my yellow tang broke out in ich. I have no idea how I got it or if it was just dormant in the tank, but I've dealt with it before so I pulled everyone to the hospital tank and started hyposalinity treatment. Brought them down to .009 over three days. Ich appeared on my sailfin and coral beauty during this process but has since cleared up. Ammonia got as high as 1ppm during the die off in the rock I'm using; it was controlled with prime and water changes the entire time and is currently 0.25 and dropping. Nobody currently has what I think are ich spots.

But, last night, after a water change on the hospital tank, my black clown was covered in these hanging translucent things. They appeared in a matter of minutes, during the water change. She's never liked water changes and I was doing a lot of large ones close together to control the ammonia, so I assume she was pretty stressed. It's been about 12 hours with no changes. Since these things appeared, she's been hiding in corners and did not eat when I fed the tank. She had a similar dangling... thing... a few days ago, which vanished. The coral beauty also has 1 (just 1) and the sailfin might have had one that cleared; fish never let me get a good look.

There is no loss of color. The two tangs both got freshwater dips when I moved them to the hospital tank but the clown did not. I've had this fish for 8 years, not a new fish; she's a nasty little black widow and bully usually. I assume the carriers that introduced any possible disease are the chromis that came out of quarantine about 2 weeks before the ich appeared.

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Based on size of nodules, this is not ich but may be brooklynella with secondary bacterial issues.
The thick mucus on its body is a sign which is noticeable on the fish. This mucus generally starts at the facial area as well as gills and spreads across the body producing lesions as it progresses often confused with ich and can turn into secondary bacteria. Other symptoms will be lethargic behavior, refusing to eat and heavy breathing from the mucus.
Typical treatment is a formalin solution is mixed with in a separate container with either fresh or saltwater. Start with a quick dip in the formalin at a higher concentration then performing treatment in a prolonged bath of formalin base at a lower concentration in a quarantine tank. The longer the fish are exposed to the formalin treatment the more effective it will be at eliminating this issue.
If a formalin solution is not available for immediate use, temporary relief can be achieved by giving the fish a FW bath or dip in water same temperature as display tank. Even though this treatment will not cure the disease, it can help to remove some of the parasites, as well as reduce the amount of mucus in the gills to assist with respiration problems.
Treatment is best done in a QT tank using either quick cure (more effective) or Ruby Rally Pro. Ruby takes a little longer and initial treatment generally takes 2-3 days to really start going to work.
With the advanced stage of this- I recommend immediate quarantine of all inhabitants and leaving display without fish for 4-6 weeks.
A quarantine system if you dont have one can be as simple as a starter tank kit from walmart which has most of the essentials

 

[blecki]

Very confused by the lack of other symptoms associated with brook.

Not sure how formalin will interact with hypo. Since the fish is already in quarantine and in hypo, how does that change medication options?

Also see attached before and after a freshwater dip.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

The rapid onset and discrete white spots leads me away from this being Brook. Sometimes, during hypo, ich will come and go on different fish. Still, I wonder if these could be dead/dying flukes, or mucus spots from the same?

This is where I wish I could have the fish in hand. I'd give it a quick scrape and put it under a microscope and know right away what this is......

Jay

 

[blecki]

Jay, maybe you can answer some other concerns. If it's not brook, is there harm in treating with formalin? I will be pulling this fish into a separate hospital tank for that, but, it will take days to raise the salinity out of hypo and if it's brook she'll be dead long before that.

Mind I don't actually know if I can get my hands on formalin in time. Is there anything that's safe to use in hypo?

After the freshwater dip she's out and swimming and seriously ticked off. I'm also noticing some sudden head jerking which might indicate flukes? I've never dealt with those.

The holes left after the dip are covered by mucus again. If I lose her I can send you a frozen sample.

 

[Weeb]

Very confused by the lack of other symptoms associated with brook.

Not sure how formalin will interact with hypo. Since the fish is already in quarantine and in hypo, how does that change medication options?

Also see attached before and after a freshwater dip.

Are these photos of the fish in quarantine?

 

[blecki]

Are these photos of the fish in quarantine?

Yes, everyone is in the hospital tank. It looks like butt because I just let it go while it's empty. It's my old tank. Display tank is lonely...

Attached is the clearest picture I can get. She's back to 'hiding' against the glass. Also got a shot of the similar lesion on the sailfin. I'm not really seeing any excessive mucus from the gills and the clown is not breathing fast. But the behavior is still alarming. And she has started to lose color.

My assumption that I couldn't get formalin today was right. I got some metroplex though, but not sure it will do anything to help.

 

[Weeb]

Yes, everyone is in the hospital tank. It looks like butt because I just let it go while it's empty. It's my old tank. Display tank is lonely...

Attached is the clearest picture I can get. She's back to 'hiding' against the glass. Also got a shot of the similar lesion on the sailfin. I'm not really seeing any excessive mucus from the gills and the clown is not breathing fast. But the behavior is still alarming. And she has started to lose color.

My assumption that I couldn't get formalin today was right. I got some metroplex though, but not sure it will do anything to help.

Thanks for the additional photos. Much appreciated. sorry you are having to go through all of this. I know how you feel. When one of my fish is ill, I get sick too!

I just wonder about the rock in your hospital tank. Seems porous. Rock can interfere with some treatments.

 

[blecki]

Yeah, but, if I pull the rocks, what will get the ammonia out?

 

[Weeb]

Yeah, but, if I pull the rocks, what will get the ammonia out?

I kinda thought that was the reason for their presence.

Perhaps you can start a bio filter going now (and for the future) for this aquarium. With bacterial adds to the intake it might speed it up.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Jay, maybe you can answer some other concerns. If it's not brook, is there harm in treating with formalin? I will be pulling this fish into a separate hospital tank for that, but, it will take days to raise the salinity out of hypo and if it's brook she'll be dead long before that.

Mind I don't actually know if I can get my hands on formalin in time. Is there anything that's safe to use in hypo?

After the freshwater dip she's out and swimming and seriously ticked off. I'm also noticing some sudden head jerking which might indicate flukes? I've never dealt with those.

The holes left after the dip are covered by mucus again. If I lose her I can send you a frozen sample.

Yes, everyone is in the hospital tank. It looks like butt because I just let it go while it's empty. It's my old tank. Display tank is lonely...

Attached is the clearest picture I can get. She's back to 'hiding' against the glass. Also got a shot of the similar lesion on the sailfin. I'm not really seeing any excessive mucus from the gills and the clown is not breathing fast. But the behavior is still alarming. And she has started to lose color.

My assumption that I couldn't get formalin today was right. I got some metroplex though, but not sure it will do anything to help.

Oh - those new pics clearly show mucus plugs on the clownfish, not ich or Brook. See how some of them are pointed? That's the key way to tell (without a microscope).

Now - the problem is that mucus plugs can be caused by just about any skin irritation; ich, flukes, issues with the water, or sometimes, no discernable cause at all.

At this point, I wouldn't treat with formalin, that could just irritate the fish's skin more.

Personally, if the clown is still eating well and not breathing fast, and if no other fish have spots, I'd just continue with the hypo.

Just an FYI - frozen samples are no good for parasite ID.

Jay

 

[blecki]

She is not eating; but a not-brook diagnosis is good news.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

She is not eating; but a not-brook diagnosis is good news.

Not eating with a clown is a really bad sign though. Not doing something isn’t an option in that case, because something needs to be done to get it to start feeding again.
Is it breathing fast? If you aren’t sure, can you post a video?
Jay

 

[blecki]

I can never tell. I've got fish that hardly seem to breath at all and an ammonia-burned rescue sailfin that looks like it's always out of breath. She is definitely now breathing faster than she was; but I don't see the gill movement I see in other fish.

Tried garlic soaked fish frenzy and she ignored it. I have a separate hospital tank almost ready but with zero filtration I could move her to, but wary of stressing her out more. Meanwhile I skipped the water change today because of her and overfed trying to get her to eat, and ammonia is climbing again. Could it be as simple as water quality when all the other fish are doing great?

Stress from having her bed stolen and suddenly having less places to hide?

 

[blecki]

Update, video is kind of pointless now as she is definitely breathing fast. Got her into her own hospital tank and have dosed it with metroplex. Mucus has spread, but, skin underneath doesn't appear to be coming off. Now instead of discrete plugs it's a sheet. Still has not eaten.

One of the chromis back in the first hospital tank has two plugs on his head. I don't expect him to last the night as the rest of the school has already decided he's dead and started attacking his tail.

 

[blecki]

Well, not a happy ending. She progressed to laying on her side and passed about an hour ago.

If it was brook then I never saw the skin peel; she was coated in mucus. Almost looked like she was being laminated. The speed is definitely in line with brook. Almost exactly 48 hours since I first saw the mucus plugs.

Whatever it was what is my protocol for the rest of the fish? If it's brook, can't the tangs and angelfish basically carry it symptom free forever? Let's assume I want to eventually get more clowns - how do I eradicate this without hurting the other fish? Finish the 30 days of hypo, bring them back up, then medication? Would something safer like metroplex or reef rally be effective or are copper or formaldehyde the only options?

 

[Weeb]

Well, not a happy ending. She progressed to laying on her side and passed about an hour ago.

If it was brook then I never saw the skin peel; she was coated in mucus. Almost looked like she was being laminated. The speed is definitely in line with brook. Almost exactly 48 hours since I first saw the mucus plugs.

Whatever it was what is my protocol for the rest of the fish? If it's brook, can't the tangs and angelfish basically carry it symptom free forever? Let's assume I want to eventually get more clowns - how do I eradicate this without hurting the other fish? Finish the 30 days of hypo, bring them back up, then medication? Would something safer like metroplex or reef rally be effective or are copper or formaldehyde the only options?

Sorry for the loss. Many different marine fishes can host the Brooklynella hostilis ciliated protozoan. I wish I could see a skin scraping of the passed fish. Hydrogen peroxide has been a known killer of protozoa in the reef and fish only aquariums.

 

[blecki]

Huh, I've used it very successfully to kill hair algae. Was I accidentally medicating my fish at the same time? But how high does the concentration need to be to be affective? Only ever done algae spot treatments, so I know it's reef safe in small doses. I'm guessing it's not reef safe at the concentration needed to medicate...

 

[Weeb]

Huh, I've used it very successfully to kill hair algae. Was I accidentally medicating my fish at the same time? But how high does the concentration need to be to be affective? Only ever done algae spot treatments, so I know it's reef safe in small doses. I'm guessing it's not reef safe at the concentration needed to medicate...

Well, I've come across a very effective procedure (IMHO) but not on this website. Probably someone should step up and direct you to the procedure here on R2R.

 

[blecki]

Update, because you guys were helpful. Pretty sure it was velvet. I've since lost my sailfin, coral beauty, and yellow tang. I'm assuming what I thought was ich was velvet originally and I just bought some time when I dipped the affected fish. The coral beauty and yellow tang both stopped eating then slowly lost the ability to swim upright as their breathing increased. Sailfin was on that same path but appeared to have a panic attack in the medication. Turned solid black then dropped dead in just a few hours. Yellow tang lasted the longest and was trying to swim into the powerhead. Postmortem dips produced no evidence of flukes. I'm beyond devastated. I'd had that specific quartet of fish for 5 years. I also lost about 90% of my chromis school. Looks like I might save 2. And lost all the cardinals and mollys. By time I got some reef rally, it was too late. Local vet told me to pound sand when I tried to get some chloroquine phosphate.

Engineer gobies don't give a ****. They seem fine. They are almost out of hypo. I'm guessing copper and 6 weeks fallow are the only options? My little tank is looking rough but I am terrified to do maintenance on it and infect it. Not even using the rodi water for it, made my wife buy distilled to top it off.

Thank you for reading, writing it all out was a bit therapeutic.