Challenges balancing the sump and plumbing

[TheMimic]

So fun turn of events today.

First, I'm sorry for setting the stage for any contentious conversation. I do take all opinions, test as much as I can, and adopt what works for me. So thank you all for your comments. I promise they are helpful and appreciated.

So for anyone interested in my progress, I think I have identified the problem. It was not the valve, but darn close. A lot of my setup was custom made by the previous owner. Today, during my water change, I inspected the overflow a little bit more. I'll toss a picture below, but my drain pipe has several holes drilled around it, an adjustable sleeve, and a cap on it with anti-siphon pipe sticking out (removed in the pic below in order to show the whole pipe). Presumably the sleeve and cap are to regulate flow and prevent objects from being taken in. Much like the valve, that sleve can be lowered and raised, regulating the flow into the overflow drain, even with the inline gate valve fully open.

What I am finding/suspecting is that sleeve is sliding down over time, closing the overflow drain. As soon as I figure out how to remove that cap without breaking stuff, that sleeve will be coming off altogether.

Unfortunately, even with my pump at full speed (1500 gph supposedly) it can't keep up with the overflow fully open (at both ends), so it is noisy as hell. Noisy, but apparently stable and beats a flood. It may be time to upgrade the pump for more flow...

Thanks again for ALL comments, they helped direct me where to look and figure this all out. I hope my findings may help you in turn some day. Cheers.

 

[twentyleagues]

So fun turn of events today.

First, I'm sorry for setting the stage for any contentious conversation. I do take all opinions, test as much as I can, and adopt what works for me. So thank you all for your comments. I promise they are helpful and appreciated.

So for anyone interested in my progress, I think I have identified the problem. It was not the valve, but darn close. A lot of my setup was custom made by the previous owner. Today, during my water change, I inspected the overflow a little bit more. I'll toss a picture below, but my drain pipe has several holes drilled around it, an adjustable sleeve, and a cap on it with anti-siphon pipe sticking out (removed in the pic below in order to show the whole pipe). Presumably the sleeve and cap are to regulate flow and prevent objects from being taken in. Much like the valve, that sleve can be lowered and raised, regulating the flow into the overflow drain, even with the inline gate valve fully open.

What I am finding/suspecting is that sleeve is sliding down over time, closing the overflow drain. As soon as I figure out how to remove that cap without breaking stuff, that sleeve will be coming off altogether.

Unfortunately, even with my pump at full speed (1500 gph supposedly) it can't keep up with the overflow fully open (at both ends), so it is noisy as hell. Noisy, but apparently stable and beats a flood. It may be time to upgrade the pump for more flow...

Thanks again for ALL comments, they helped direct me where to look and figure this all out. I hope my findings may help you in turn some day. Cheers.

So a 1" pipe under siphon is capable of 1000gph (actually more but for safeties sake). I would not upsize the pump. Yours looks to be setup as some sort of modified durso drain. In practical use that should not be under any type of siphon as you have no emergency backup. a 1" pipe without a siphon should not exceed 600gph for safety reasons. If you dial back the flow to 600gph that may start working better for you. Do not close the valve at all keep it wide open. Looks like the attempt at quieting the noise with the contraption on the top as a sort of diy maggie muffler. I ran maggie mufflers on my durso setups before I switched them all to herbie style using the return pipe for one of the two drains needed and plumbing the returns over the back of the aquarium. Luckily for me all the tanks I have had where both 1" pipes, in the event that you have a 1" drain and a 3/4" return you would want the smaller diameter pipe to be the siphon drain and the larger to be the emergency. If your weir seals are good you should be able to drain the overflow and make the changes necessary to turn this into a herbie without draining the tank.

 

[hsp]

Not sure if this is helpful, but IMHO, the kind of valve makes a huge difference. I have a Red Sea REEFER Max G2+ Max and had to change from the shoddy diaphragm valve to a precision gate valve following this instruction video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ne5iA9BvOXs
Now, I can really specify how much goes through which was impossible with the diaphragm one.

 

[REEFRIED!]

I may be jumping in here late. But I’ll give some thoughts anyways. To the OP. You first need to figure out how you will run this tank. You can run it the way in which it was originally intended. With a durso style overflow. A simple youtube search will show you one running. In those set ups the larger pipe inside the overflow box is the drain. The smaller one is for the return.

A durso style set up works perfectly fine and is what many of us used for years without issue. The drain pipe typically came with a factory elbow or 90 degree fitting which included some type of strainer. Not a fine strainer just something that would prevent snails and fish from getting stuck in the pipe and causing your tank to overflow.

The main problem with a durso style set up is that is is terribly loud. Back in the day we didn’t really care about noise. Everything was AC driven and loud. We just lived with this constant flushing, gurgling, and best case trickling sounds from our reef tanks. Then some genius’ came along and started to tweak our overflows. First a guy named “herbie” then a guy named “bean animal”!!!

Both of those second and third styles require two and three drain pipes respectively. I cannot tell if yours is meant to be a herbie or two pipe bean animal. Both will work.

So let me start by asking or assuming that both pipes in your overflow box are drains correct? If so I would just start from scratch and run the herbie style. With new pipes and a new strainer. Easily purchased on BRS. You definitely would not have to drain the tank to work on your set up. Just shut return off and pull the pipes. Let the water inside the overflow box drain, then to be safe siphon some more water using a hose from the display down to the sump so nothing goes over the teeth while your working on it.

Not sure what the sleeve and holes are for. Either way you can fix this whole set up and make it dead silent and perform perfectly. I posted a pic of a typical herbie style set up.

Like others have said. You do not need to try and match your pump speed to your drain speed. Your drain should and will handle more than your pump is capable of sending up to the tank. (Unless obviously if someone used a severely oversized pump for their set up). The valve on the drain is to simply quiet everything down. Once you get all plumbing replaced and set up properly, you will simply open the valve all the way, (assuming also that this is a gate valve and not ball valve). Turn on your pump, set it to about half speed. Or maybe 3/5 or 4/6 depending on your pump style and turnover preferences. Let things run for a couple of minutes. Then slowly start to close the gate valve. Making sure to wait a minute or so after each tune. This will make the open drain (the pipe with the valve and strainer) achieve full siphon, and then at the same time slowly raise the water inside the overflow box until it is barely trickling down your emergency pipe (the taller one with no strainer and a direct line to the sump)

You can play with the size (length) of the emergency drain pipe to achieve even more silent operation. The higher the pipe in the overflow box the less water crashes down and makes noise. Although don’t play with fire and make it too high.

I will go back and re read all of your posts in this thread. As far as the ato, your ato triggering device, the level sensor or whatever you are using needs to be in the last chamber with the rerun pump. Also the feed from the ato reservoir should also be in this chamber. Make sure there is no opportunity for back siphon to be created when ato pump shuts off.

 

[REEFRIED!]

I forgot the picture.