Catastrophe on Vacation

[trevorhiller]

I’m relatively new to the hobby. I’ve only had tanks for a few years cumulatively, but I’m a big fan of these for the ATOs.

I have a Cade with a built in ATO, but I think my next tank I’m going to try to replicate it with a reservoir above the sump somehow. It only needs to be elevated over the sump slightly to function and the tubing can be as long as you want.

Gravity doesn’t fail and as long as the valve is kept clean they don’t fail off. Worse case it’d stick open with a slow drip and a level sensor in the return chamber would notify you of that. Heck you could even add a solenoid to close the line if the return chamber high sensor was triggered to shut down the ATO.

I believe that’s the most bullet proof ATO you can get.

 

[G Santana]

I know your pain as I recently went through a vacation loss but I didn't lose fish just corals.
You lost a Potters Angel and that is one of my favorite fish, I feel for you.
Hang tough, I hope you rebuild, this hobby is more than special, it truly is unique.
Good luck.

 

[MartinM]

Finally feeling ok enough to talk about this as coming back from 2-weeks in Europe, I returned to my fish tank with the vast majority of my fish community completely obliterated. I’m still a little numb to all this, constantly waivering between exiting the hobby and trying to salvage and rebuild, but here goes…

My house/dogsitter fuddled with my malfunctioning ATO while I was out, didn’t set it properly and basically set off a week of cascading failures which ultimately caused all of this. The water in the return chamber totally drained, causing the DT to start evaporating and the water temperature to drop to the high 60s for over a week! By the time the housesitter truly realized something was severely wrong, I basically had to call home (from a boat in Italy) and walk them through steps just to get the tank in serviceable shape for me to correct when I returned.

Day before return I received photos of the tank where all looked alive, but this was not the case when I walked through the front door. The tank was cloudy, and there were at least 2 dead/decomposing fish floating at the top of the tank.

All in all, I lost:
- G. Semifasciatus mated pair (I spent 2 years locating these two)
- Coral Beauty
- Potter’s Angel (I assume now irreplaceable, given collection ban)
- Copperband Butterfly (This and potter’s hurt especially, given how much work it took them to be successful on prepared foods, the Copperband was essentially a puppy to me)
- Lubbock’s Wrasse
- Pintail Wrasse
- CB Biota Mandarin
- Gem Tang

What Survived?
- Quoyi Parrot
- Oscellaris Pair
- Pink Smith Damsel Pair
- Regal Angel (which had been in the sump, luckily)
- All my corals and anemones, miraculously, including 2 Giganteas and 2 Magnificas (if these had gone, I’m pretty sure I’d be out of the hobby)

Since my return, I’ve completed 2 30% water changes and the tank is starting to look pristine again, just without any real movement from the fish community.

I had expected to have to replace my return pump and heaters as they had been running dry for days. Thankfully, the heaters are both intact and not shattered, and the return pump is still working.

I have replaced yet another ATO unit (historically and consistently the achilles heel of my tank, I must have had 3 or 4 models, all eventually failing on some level) with a pressure-based monitor and will never trust ATOs that utilize optical sensors again.

What’s Next?
I’ve been waffling between staying in the hobby and rebuilding, and, just cutting my losses and selling everything off. I’m heavily feeling sunk-cost fallacy regarding the hobby, given it will likely cost over $2500 to replicate the fish community, not to mention the time and care investment in getting another copperband and potter’s (if I can even find one) to succeed on prepared foods. Finding another G. Semifasciatus pair will cost well over $1300 (per Reef Pro Store).

I’m going to spend the next few weeks just ensuring the tank is running as well as it can. May judiciously add a fish or two and wait until the new year before making a final decision. If I do manage to rebuild, I will need to find a local tank maintenance company to periodically check in on the tank and manage as I will not be trusting anyone without experience again.

Thanks so much for allowing me to get this all out, and taking the time to read this. Last saturday, returning home really hit like a gut punch and almost each day since, understanding/seeing something else I cared greatly for had died, it’s been a lot.

Losses are horrible, I’ve lost everything before multiple times to natural disasters and it’s so debilitating.

In the future, let me recommend:

1) Hydros or other aquarium controller to alert you, with TONS of sensors attached

2) Multiple live cams that you can check obsessively (I do when I’m away)

3) A *highly* trained tank sitter (my housekeeper could probably write a book on reefkeeping at this point…)

4) As others have mentioned, the more mechanical, the better, but more advanced for failsafes. For example, I have a Tunze mechanical float switch, with another mechanical backup, and two optical sensors to alert me if anything goes wrong (this is just for the ATO)

5) Battery backups on the key equipment (including your router and webcams!)

6) An extension of #3, someone that knows even more, like a reefing friend or an LFS staff (if you have a good one nearby)

 

[skimmerman]

My automatic tap is simple. Two gallon water jug dollar store. 30 dollar float valve in sump. Gravity fed.fill it every morning.zip done.keep it simple guys you really don’t have to be automated

 

[d2mini]

This is a super bummer! But man, things like this happen wayyyy too often, even to the best of us. Just dumb luck. When you are at home, nothing goes wrong! lol

I know you are not in the best of places right now mentally, but don't worry about the cost to replenish livestock. You know this hobby is a marathon, not a sprint. So you're just set back a ways now. Get the tank in order, let it cruise for a little bit, than add a fish. And so on. Slowly add stuff over the next year.

Coral ok? For me, that's always the bigger loss... cause the stuff takes so darn long to grow from little frags to big colonies.

For ato, I too now have a Cade with the simple gravity mechanical float. I've used those in my RO/DI mixing tanks for years too. They never fail in the flow position. But I used to run optical sensors using my GHL Profilux as the ATO control. Notice I said sensorS... plural. Either two optical, or one optical and one mechanical. You do need to periodically clean them, but I've never had them fail. And if one does fail, a second is in place to back it up, a little bit lower than the primary.

 

[workhz]

One of the drawbacks of these multi chamber sumps is a tiny (relatively speaking) return chamber. An ATO failure on something larger gives you a bit more buffer. 100% add cameras if you can and back up pumps controlled by wifi switches.

 

[dwest]

Optical unfortunately is just too risky, need regular cleaning of both the sensor and (for my previous model), the sump panel. Even with regular cleaning mine would go off at least once per week.

Trying my luck with this Avast Marine pressure-based ATO.

I’ve used pressure tube- based ATO‘s for almost 30 years reliably.

 

[Cthulukelele]

Finally feeling ok enough to talk about this as coming back from 2-weeks in Europe, I returned to my fish tank with the vast majority of my fish community completely obliterated. I’m still a little numb to all this, constantly waivering between exiting the hobby and trying to salvage and rebuild, but here goes…

My house/dogsitter fuddled with my malfunctioning ATO while I was out, didn’t set it properly and basically set off a week of cascading failures which ultimately caused all of this. The water in the return chamber totally drained, causing the DT to start evaporating and the water temperature to drop to the high 60s for over a week! By the time the housesitter truly realized something was severely wrong, I basically had to call home (from a boat in Italy) and walk them through steps just to get the tank in serviceable shape for me to correct when I returned.

Day before return I received photos of the tank where all looked alive, but this was not the case when I walked through the front door. The tank was cloudy, and there were at least 2 dead/decomposing fish floating at the top of the tank.

All in all, I lost:
- G. Semifasciatus mated pair (I spent 2 years locating these two)
- Coral Beauty
- Potter’s Angel (I assume now irreplaceable, given collection ban)
- Copperband Butterfly (This and potter’s hurt especially, given how much work it took them to be successful on prepared foods, the Copperband was essentially a puppy to me)
- Lubbock’s Wrasse
- Pintail Wrasse
- CB Biota Mandarin
- Gem Tang

What Survived?
- Quoyi Parrot
- Oscellaris Pair
- Pink Smith Damsel Pair
- Regal Angel (which had been in the sump, luckily)
- All my corals and anemones, miraculously, including 2 Giganteas and 2 Magnificas (if these had gone, I’m pretty sure I’d be out of the hobby)

Since my return, I’ve completed 2 30% water changes and the tank is starting to look pristine again, just without any real movement from the fish community.

I had expected to have to replace my return pump and heaters as they had been running dry for days. Thankfully, the heaters are both intact and not shattered, and the return pump is still working.

I have replaced yet another ATO unit (historically and consistently the achilles heel of my tank, I must have had 3 or 4 models, all eventually failing on some level) with a pressure-based monitor and will never trust ATOs that utilize optical sensors again.

What’s Next?
I’ve been waffling between staying in the hobby and rebuilding, and, just cutting my losses and selling everything off. I’m heavily feeling sunk-cost fallacy regarding the hobby, given it will likely cost over $2500 to replicate the fish community, not to mention the time and care investment in getting another copperband and potter’s (if I can even find one) to succeed on prepared foods. Finding another G. Semifasciatus pair will cost well over $1300 (per Reef Pro Store).

I’m going to spend the next few weeks just ensuring the tank is running as well as it can. May judiciously add a fish or two and wait until the new year before making a final decision. If I do manage to rebuild, I will need to find a local tank maintenance company to periodically check in on the tank and manage as I will not be trusting anyone without experience again.

Thanks so much for allowing me to get this all out, and taking the time to read this. Last saturday, returning home really hit like a gut punch and almost each day since, understanding/seeing something else I cared greatly for had died, it’s been a lot.

You'll be in my thoughts. I was in a tough financial situation a year ago when I had a week long power outage that cascaded into mass die off as I couldnt afford a generator. Lost all but 2 corals and 11 of 12 fish. The feeling is absolutely devastating. I felt the same as you numb and defeated.

Hang in there and take all the time you need to reconnect to the love you have for the hobby. I spent 6 months collecting my thoughts before jumping back in. Sounds like an amazing setup you have and once you get back into it I'm sure you'll give your new fish the best life they could possibly have. The fact that you take it so hard just proves how much you care for them and shows you're the kind of person that understands the weight of caring for living things. For that we're lucky to even have you in the hobby.

 

[b breef]

So sorry to hear this pal. Hang in there. Sounds like you know the reward of this hobby and how they outweigh the headache and loss. ATOs are one of thethe best tools of the trade but in my experience too, one of the most explosive.

 

[Wasabiroot]

Sure thing. I had the Reef Breeders EXO.

99.9% of the time it worked great, but just too many variables — mainly with clarity/cleanliness of the optics, including the sump panel as the sensor magnetically attaches on the wet and dry sides — that could make it error. It’s caused this issue, and once flooded my sump/stand.

I swapped away from the Reefbreeders nano version to Tunze nano. I don't like how the electrical connection is on the sensor itself on the ReefBreeders, meaning any water that trickles outside the sump can potentially touch the female/male plug interface and cause corrosion or malfunction. And it was a Beeping Barry. But it served ok for a year. Manual switches are my choice moving forward. I just jiggle the sensor for the Tunze periodically to ensure there isn't any calcification. Another thing I like is the electronics on the Tunze are located far away from the tank if needed and are housed.

Sorry for your catastrophe. Reefing while on vacation can be ironically stressful as we sometimes forget how much equipment we have running.

Would love to see the rebirth of the tank. But - I would also be gutted,so take the time you need to regroup. Sending good vibes your way.

 

[hoffmeyerz]

So sorry for your loss, that is a truly devastating story
There's so much advice on this thread right now on what type of ato to use but honestly I hope you can just pause and take a breath. It sounds like you have your tank just about manageable again so maybe take a breather and don't do anything right now.
You sound very experienced so I'm sure whatever path you decide will be the best for you!
Best wishes

 

[braaap]

Major bummer. Hopefully you are doing better now.

As someone who travels for work I have a few suggestions. Either a Spectrapure ATO or an Avast Marine Works. Both are fail proof unless the pump fails. And even then I ALWAYS run 2. Set at the same position. With a low level sensor or two hooked on my apex for alerts. One ATO is switched off. If the low level alarm goes off my backup ato is activated and the other is turned off until the low level alarm turns off. When the low level turns off the backup ATO turns on again. It will repeat that cycle until I can make a repair to the first ATO. This way I keep getting the alerts so I know if a failure is still occurring.

I would say 90% of tank failures revolve around a pump. It’s hard to backup a return pump. But that can also be plumbed in by using a check valve. If your main pump fails the backup kicks in. Have check valves just past each return that way the water isn’t pumping out the other return and is actually going to a display.

I run an apex in every single tank. And I always have a camera or two pointed at the important bits. Most tanks will survive a return pump failure. Especially if you put a heater in the display temporarily while on vacation.

 

[argiBK]

Wow, this thread is taking off again. Thanks all for the kind words, even a few months after all this happened. The support and community here mean so much!

After chatting with a LFS owner a couple weeks post-crash, he said it was more likely hypoxia than water temp that killed everyone off, no oxygenated water was reaching the DT, and that totally makes sense.

Fish community is rebuilt…

The fish that survived (Quoyi, Clowns, Damsels) are still there, and they have a number of new tankmates. I probably went a bit overboard with additions (mainly a Conspic angel, but I told myself if this was my last hoorah, I might as well go big), but everyone is doing well! My one likely mistake was adding a PBT, which pretty much confirmed ich in the tank, but I’ve taken steps to manage with H202 dosing and adding a UV filter.

A couple of residual issues, however…

I’m now trying to manage alk and calcium precipitation as the AFR I was dosing in the sump was just collecting over the extended period of time (leading up to and past the crash) without making it to the DT. When I got home, Alk was sky high (15+) while calcium was hovering around 650. Thankfully, after a lot of focused management those are now within range at 8.8-9 and 450-465, but remaining at those levels without any dosing.

I’m also trying to get PO4 and NO4 under control (25 and 0.5 respectively). It’s taken a few weeks to get everything within striking distance of optimal, but progress is happening and largely stabilized, though need to maybe get a bit more aggressive getting PO4 back to optimal levels.

I did lose a few acro colonies in the process, sadly. Others are definitely browned.

Just a reminder that if you do experience a crash over an extended period of time, test your water levels as I would have done things somewhat differently had I recognized what had been building in the sump!

Added redundancies to (hopefully) ensure this doesn’t happen again…

So, I changed out my ATO sensor to a pressure based switch from Avast and it’s so much more reliable, literally no failures since November.

Also, I upgraded my skimmate locker with its own float switch to add skimmer shut off redundancy. The skimmer overproducing was always my biggest concern prior to this happening, and the locker has (to me) made this bulletproof.

Onto more exciting things…

I am planning a tank upgrade in the next few months, alongside a move! Aiming for a CADE 1500 or IM 200 peninsula. Slowly collecting equipment (my living room makes me look like a hoarder). One of the challenges I‘m trying to figure out is just the transfer itself. I am planning to move within the neighborhood, but choreographing a new tank install and current tank breakdown seems fairly daunting (esp. in the midst of moving apartment), but I am determined to make this happen. Expect a new tank thread once it all kicks off!

Again, thank you all. Really appreciate the conversation around this sad event and happy to report my enthusiasm for the hobby (because of the recovery effort) has likely never been greater!

 

[Sdot]

Finally feeling ok enough to talk about this as coming back from 2-weeks in Europe, I returned to my fish tank with the vast majority of my fish community completely obliterated. I’m still a little numb to all this, constantly waivering between exiting the hobby and trying to salvage and rebuild, but here goes…

My house/dogsitter fuddled with my malfunctioning ATO while I was out, didn’t set it properly and basically set off a week of cascading failures which ultimately caused all of this. The water in the return chamber totally drained, causing the DT to start evaporating and the water temperature to drop to the high 60s for over a week! By the time the housesitter truly realized something was severely wrong, I basically had to call home (from a boat in Italy) and walk them through steps just to get the tank in serviceable shape for me to correct when I returned.

Day before return I received photos of the tank where all looked alive, but this was not the case when I walked through the front door. The tank was cloudy, and there were at least 2 dead/decomposing fish floating at the top of the tank.

All in all, I lost:
- G. Semifasciatus mated pair (I spent 2 years locating these two)
- Coral Beauty
- Potter’s Angel (I assume now irreplaceable, given collection ban)
- Copperband Butterfly (This and potter’s hurt especially, given how much work it took them to be successful on prepared foods, the Copperband was essentially a puppy to me)
- Lubbock’s Wrasse
- Pintail Wrasse
- CB Biota Mandarin
- Gem Tang

What Survived?
- Quoyi Parrot
- Oscellaris Pair
- Pink Smith Damsel Pair
- Regal Angel (which had been in the sump, luckily)
- All my corals and anemones, miraculously, including 2 Giganteas and 2 Magnificas (if these had gone, I’m pretty sure I’d be out of the hobby)

Since my return, I’ve completed 2 30% water changes and the tank is starting to look pristine again, just without any real movement from the fish community.

I had expected to have to replace my return pump and heaters as they had been running dry for days. Thankfully, the heaters are both intact and not shattered, and the return pump is still working.

I have replaced yet another ATO unit (historically and consistently the achilles heel of my tank, I must have had 3 or 4 models, all eventually failing on some level) with a pressure-based monitor and will never trust ATOs that utilize optical sensors again.

What’s Next?
I’ve been waffling between staying in the hobby and rebuilding, and, just cutting my losses and selling everything off. I’m heavily feeling sunk-cost fallacy regarding the hobby, given it will likely cost over $2500 to replicate the fish community, not to mention the time and care investment in getting another copperband and potter’s (if I can even find one) to succeed on prepared foods. Finding another G. Semifasciatus pair will cost well over $1300 (per Reef Pro Store).

I’m going to spend the next few weeks just ensuring the tank is running as well as it can. May judiciously add a fish or two and wait until the new year before making a final decision. If I do manage to rebuild, I will need to find a local tank maintenance company to periodically check in on the tank and manage as I will not be trusting anyone without experience again.

Thanks so much for allowing me to get this all out, and taking the time to read this. Last saturday, returning home really hit like a gut punch and almost each day since, understanding/seeing something else I cared greatly for had died, it’s been a lot.

First: thank you for sharing this.... what a tragedy and im sorry this happened to you.

Please do not allow this experience to force you out of this hobby, when its clear you have love for it. Use this as an oppurtunity to reduce as many points of failure as possible. Figure out if there is a technology solution that could minimize this from ever happening again.

Lastly, stay strong my guy....you have a whole community that's rooting for you!! You arent alone.

 

[argiBK]

One of the drawbacks of these multi chamber sumps is a tiny (relatively speaking) return chamber. An ATO failure on something larger gives you a bit more buffer. 100% add cameras if you can and back up pumps controlled by wifi switches.

Totally agree with you, and it is a big concern for my intended upgrade. While I’m heavily leaning towards the CADE (which comes with the sump) the return chamber is just barely large enough to fit an adequate return pump.

My thinking for the solve here is potentially plumbing two ATO pumps, likely one triggered by the sensor, and one that is constantly filling at just below the evap rate (this becomes unfortunately overcomplex as winter greatly increases evap rate). The other option is to move to a gravity/pressure based ATO method.

 

[Tamberav]

Sorry for your losses! Biota is working on breeding potters angels and might even be ready by march. MAYBE.

Anywho... I bought some of those cheap $20 cameras you can check on your phone on amazon and just set them up when I am out of town. I figure some things can't be seen from Apex numbers and getting a visual is a good idea (and cheap). Some people even add one to the sump area.

 

[Dburr1014]

My automatic tap is simple. Two gallon water jug dollar store. 30 dollar float valve in sump. Gravity fed.fill it every morning.zip done.keep it simple guys you really don’t have to be automated

I have had a gravity feed ato fail. The rubber eventually failed and water continously dripped in the sump.

I went with tunze, what I like is if the sensor fails and the pump runs more than 2 minutes, it alarms out and shuts the pump off.

OP, glad to see your back on the horse, er, tank. Good luck rebuilding!

 

[Cell]

I haven’t tried the Tunze, but have heard good things.

The best ATO I had was the Innovatine Marine Hydrofill, which worked like a champ for 4 years until it finally gave out. When I went looking for another, they were no where to be found online (seems like they’re avail again), which led me to the Reef Breeders. Crossing my fingers the Avast will be stable and trustworthy.

The Tunze 3155 is the gold standard ATO. I wouldn't mess around with anything else especially after a devastating ATO failure.

 

[Koty]

Sorry for your loss. My goal in the hobby is not to have to buy new fish. I had a planned 30 days vacation and a conference in the US, and I was terrified of such scenarios. I spent several long hours teaching my daughter (age 30, 4m pregnant, has a dog, cats, husband in army reserve...) about my tank, and we went over each part, explaining what it does and what the consequences are if it fails, and how to deal with it if it is possible. She ran my tank for several days under my supervision, emptying the skimmer, replacing filter wool, checking Alk, PO4, and NO3 feeding, etc. Also, she got some seawater chemistry lessons and wrote everything in a notebook.
My only loss was my fairy wrasse jumping out as my evil maroon clown harassed him.
My GFO reactor got clogged, and the phosphate went a bit high with no adverse effects.
I should find time and translate the notebook mentioned above as it may prove helpful in general tank sitter training, demonstrating what rabbit hole depth you need to take your designated tank sitter through.

 

[Crustaceon]

I would rebuild and view this as an opportunity to diversify your collection with different (maybe even less expensive) fish. If you get the same fish again, you'll likely be reminded of the crash every time you look at the tank. Sometimes a tank is just more enjoyable when you don't have so much risk hanging over it.