Can’t keep any fish alive for longer than a week.

[dans85]

Hey guys! I’m pulling my hair out here and I’m needing some help. Tank is a 300 gallon with sump and plumbed in frag tank. The system is right at 2 months old and was started with dry/mined rock and fritz turbostart. So far I have tried fish from approximately 5 different suppliers both local and shipped in and I’ve only had one fish make it past the one week mark. Parameters are as follows and have maintained.

NH3-0
NO2-0
NO3-approximately 20
Alk-7/8
Mag-1500
Cal-460

I know calcium and magnesium are on the high end, but I can’t imagine that having an effect on fish?

the first round of fish purchased were a naso tang, blue eye bristle tooth, sailfin tang, clown pair, Christmas wrasse, and fire fish. Fish were added approximately 1 week after adding turbostart. All fish were dead within a week with the exception of the clowns. Both clown’s developed bulging eyes and were removed from the tank and treated with API Furan-2. Both clowns went through a full treatment and seemed to recover. A few days later the bulging eyes came back and they were treated again. After returning to the display both died within a week. UV was installed about a week before the second round of fish were added. UV was added as a preventative measure. There was a bacterial bloom happening when the UV was added.

The second round of fish added were 2 Scopas tangs and a small pair of clowns. These fish were added about 3 weeks after the others. Both clowns have died as well as one scopas.

last week a blonde naso and yellow eyed Kole tang were added. The Kole tang was dead yesterday afternoon and the naso died this afternoon. Naso had bulging eyes and damaged skin on its face.

I have seen no signs of aggression from any fish. All fish have been alert with bright clear eyes, eating and absolutely zero signs of disease or infection prior to dying. I have checked for stray voltage and I have checked all pumps and powerheads for and damage. Saltwater has been made with 0 tds ro/di. Tank was first started with aquaforest reef and water changes have been made with IO or RC. I’m at my wits end here and I’m not sure what is going on. If anyone can offer up any help I would be extremely grateful. If I missed something or if there are any additional question I will happily answer. Thanks!

 

[vetteguy53081]

Hey guys! I’m pulling my hair out here and I’m needing some help. Tank is a 300 gallon with sump and plumbed in frag tank. The system is right at 2 months old and was started with dry/mined rock and fritz turbostart. So far I have tried fish from approximately 5 different suppliers both local and shipped in and I’ve only had one fish make it past the one week mark. Parameters are as follows and have maintained.

NH3-0
NO2-0
NO3-approximately 20
Alk-7/8
Mag-1500
Cal-460

I know calcium and magnesium are on the high end, but I can’t imagine that having an effect on fish?

the first round of fish purchased were a naso tang, blue eye bristle tooth, sailfin tang, clown pair, Christmas wrasse, and fire fish. Fish were added approximately 1 week after adding turbostart. All fish were dead within a week with the exception of the clowns. Both clown’s developed bulging eyes and were removed from the tank and treated with API Furan-2. Both clowns went through a full treatment and seemed to recover. A few days later the bulging eyes came back and they were treated again. After returning to the display both died within a week. UV was installed about a week before the second round of fish were added. UV was added as a preventative measure. There was a bacterial bloom happening when the UV was added.

The second round of fish added were 2 Scopas tangs and a small pair of clowns. These fish were added about 3 weeks after the others. Both clowns have died as well as one scopas.

last week a blonde naso and yellow eyed Kole tang were added. The Kole tang was dead yesterday afternoon and the naso died this afternoon. Naso had bulging eyes and damaged skin on its face.

I have seen no signs of aggression from any fish. All fish have been alert with bright clear eyes, eating and absolutely zero signs of disease or infection prior to dying. I have checked for stray voltage and I have checked all pumps and powerheads for and damage. Saltwater has been made with 0 tds ro/di. Tank was first started with aquaforest reef and water changes have been made with IO or RC. I’m at my wits end here and I’m not sure what is going on. If anyone can offer up any help I would be extremely grateful. If I missed something or if there are any additional question I will happily answer. Thanks!

This is terrible to hear. Cases like this often point to water in some fashion.
How are you testing water- with what kits?
How are you acclimating the fish and for how long ?
Have you calibrated salinity tester ?

others:
Low PH
Aggression
Hidden monster such as mantis shrimp or Bobbit worm
Candles or aerosols near the tank

 

[Jay Hemdal]

The losses may or may not be related. I doubt it is water quality, nothing stands out in that regard. The bulging eyes are not a symptom specific to contagious diseases.

Are there corals and invertebrates in the system?

Do you have the ability to quarantine new fish going forward?

Jay

 

[dans85]

This is terrible to hear. Cases like this often point to water in some fashion.
How are you testing water- with what kits?
How are you acclimating the fish and for how long ?
Have you calibrated salinity tester ?

others:
Low PH
Aggression
Hidden monster such as mantis shrimp or Bobbit worm
Candles or aerosols near the tank

NH2, NO2, and NO3 are being tested with API kits. All and mag are Hanna, and cal is redsea. Salinity and PH are tested with Hanna handheld testers and are caliber regularly. Fish were temp acclimated for 20-30 mins before being added. PH has been low for the past couple of weeks, hovering in the 7.6-7.7 range. I installed a CO2 scrubber two days ago and PH has came up to 7.9-8. No candles or aerosols at all. The tank is in my basement away from any possibility of that. I just added some coral about 2 weeks ago, so the possibility of a hidden monster is slim to none.

 

[dans85]

The losses may or may not be related. I doubt it is water quality, nothing stands out in that regard. The bulging eyes are not a symptom specific to contagious diseases.

Are there corals and invertebrates in the system?

Do you have the ability to quarantine new fish going forward?

Jay

Coral was added about 2 weeks ago. No other inverts at this time. I can quarantine, I just haven’t setup a system yet.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Coral was added about 2 weeks ago. No other inverts at this time. I can quarantine, I just haven’t setup a system yet.

Did you see rapid breathing in any of the fish prior to death?
Personally, I’d let the tank run fishless for 45 days, concentrate on corals and CUC, and set up a QT and use a good protocol on them.
Jay

 

[vetteguy53081]

NH2, NO2, and NO3 are being tested with API kits. All and mag are Hanna, and cal is redsea. Salinity and PH are tested with Hanna handheld testers and are caliber regularly. Fish were temp acclimated for 20-30 mins before being added. PH has been low for the past couple of weeks, hovering in the 7.6-7.7 range. I installed a CO2 scrubber two days ago and PH has came up to 7.9-8. No candles or aerosols at all. The tank is in my basement away from any possibility of that. I just added some coral about 2 weeks ago, so the possibility of a hidden monster is slim to none.

Two concerns I see as mention on false readings - The api tests which are notorious for false readings often showing lower numbers than actual. To determine the accuracy, take a water sample to a store that does NOT use Api kits and have them test your ammonia and nitrates and compare readings- then you'll know where your levels truly are at
I will never trust a $7 badge or $25 master kit to sustain hundreds of dollars in livestock.

Low Ph a possibility but not crazy low.

Acclimation which was another suspect seems very short. Temp acclimation is a first step and not an acclimation.
Just alone, you would have floated bag to equalize temperature and you want to empty bag and fish into a CLEAN bucket and they add tank water until AT MINIMUM you matched the salinity in the bucket with that of the tank. I add a cup of water every 15 mins until you have assured salinity, ph have been equalized
My acclimation method (not the only one out there):
I generally:
Float for 20-30 minutes
Transfer fish and water into a clean bucket
Then . . . .
Measure the Ph, salinity and temperature of the bag water. If you can, make up some water in a container that has exactly the same measurements as the bag readings and move the fish right over, then you can add a cup of tank water to bucket every 15 mins 6 times (almost 1.5 hours)
Then check salinity in bucket and compare to tank. If no match or very close, add a cup of water every few mins until youve reached salinity and trap fish in same cup and pour off water and release into display. Release under LOW light before lights out. Fish in shipped bags produce carbon dioxide and ammonia. The carbon dioxide lowers the pH of the water in the bag, That in turn makes the ammonia non-toxic to the fish.

 

[BetterJake]

Stray Voltage in the tank?

 

[Dine]

im a fan of fritz turbo for sure, but ive never tried it with that many fish right off the bat? others might chime in but im wondering if there just was more bio load than fritz could handle?

 

[Sebastiancrab]

I agree with Jay. Set up the quarantine tank and do one inexpensive fish or a pair of clowns. Go slow and not add so many fish to start with. Follow Jay's protocol for treating fish in QT:

Current Quarantine Protocol

2022 Quarantine Procedures Jay Hemdal David Scarborough Protozoans (Cryptocaryon/ich, Amyloodinium/velvet) and Metazoan trematodes/flukes are by far the most common parasites found on newly acquired fish. A carefully managed quarantine process can effectively eliminate these parasites before...

www.reef2reef.com

Let your DT go fallow. I would run some Poly Filter and purchase Hanna or Salifert test kits for ammonia and nitrate. (API ammonia test kits always show .25 so you don't know whether it is zero or not.) You don't have to worry about the tank cycling so much during the fallow period if you just put in a pinch of flake food every day. Test it after 2 weeks with your new kits.

Poly Filter Floss Pad 4 X 8" Polyfilter - Bio Marine

Shop The Best Saltwater Aquarium Equipment & Supplies at Saltwater Aquarium. We Carry Everything you will Need for your Fish Tank.

www.saltwateraquarium.com

You can get a voltage multimeter at Walmart for under $20. Test all your equipment one by one. Make sure you are running with a ground probe in your tank going forward.

 

[miran2782]

and when you do try again start with a nice and cheap sailfin molly

 

[dans85]

Did you see rapid breathing in any of the fish prior to death?
Personally, I’d let the tank run fishless for 45 days, concentrate on corals and CUC, and set up a QT and use a good protocol on

Did you see rapid breathing in any of the fish prior to death?
Personally, I’d let the tank run fishless for 45 days, concentrate on corals and CUC, and set up a QT and use a good protocol on them.
Jay

No rapid breathing that I saw. Literally fine one day and dead the next. I’ll definitely let the tank go fallow. And setup a QT.

 

[dans85]

I agree with Jay. Set up the quarantine tank and do one inexpensive fish or a pair of clowns. Go slow and not add so many fish to start with. Follow Jay's protocol for treating fish in QT:

Current Quarantine Protocol

2022 Quarantine Procedures Jay Hemdal David Scarborough Protozoans (Cryptocaryon/ich, Amyloodinium/velvet) and Metazoan trematodes/flukes are by far the most common parasites found on newly acquired fish. A carefully managed quarantine process can effectively eliminate these parasites before...

www.reef2reef.com

Let your DT go fallow. I would run some Poly Filter and purchase Hanna or Salifert test kits for ammonia and nitrate. (API ammonia test kits always show .25 so you don't know whether it is zero or not.) You don't have to worry about the tank cycling so much during the fallow period if you just put in a pinch of flake food every day. Test it after 2 weeks with your new kits.

Poly Filter Floss Pad 4 X 8" Polyfilter - Bio Marine

Shop The Best Saltwater Aquarium Equipment & Supplies at Saltwater Aquarium. We Carry Everything you will Need for your Fish Tank.

www.saltwateraquarium.com

You can get a voltage multimeter at Walmart for under $20. Test all your equipment one by one. Make sure you are running with a ground probe in your tank going forward.

I’ll pick up some poly filter. I’m a mechanic by trade, so I have a multimeter on hand. I checked for stray voltage this afternoon and it’s less than 1 volt.

 

[Sebastiancrab]

No rapid breathing that I saw. Literally fine one day and dead the next. I’ll definitely let the tank go fallow. And setup a QT.

Dan, suggest you have on hand a small medicine cabinet including Copper Power, Prazipro and Ruby Reef Rally Pro. This way you are prepared for most of the bad bugs.

P.s. I say that because I have fought all the major ones and it's better to be prepared than rushing to the store!

 

[Lavey29]

im a fan of fritz turbo for sure, but ive never tried it with that many fish right off the bat? others might chime in but im wondering if there just was more bio load than fritz could handle?

Exactly, dropping that many fish in a brand new tank is a recipe for disaster especially if they were not QT prior.

 

[dans85]

Two concerns I see as mention on false readings - The api tests which are notorious for false readings often showing lower numbers than actual. To determine the accuracy, take a water sample to a store that does NOT use Api kits and have them test your ammonia and nitrates and compare readings- then you'll know where your levels truly are at
I will never trust a $7 badge or $25 master kit to sustain hundreds of dollars in livestock.

Low Ph a possibility but not crazy low.

Acclimation which was another suspect seems very short. Temp acclimation is a first step and not an acclimation.
Just alone, you would have floated bag to equalize temperature and you want to empty bag and fish into a CLEAN bucket and they add tank water until AT MINIMUM you matched the salinity in the bucket with that of the tank. I add a cup of water every 15 mins until you have assured salinity, ph have been equalized
My acclimation method (not the only one out there):
I generally:
Float for 20-30 minutes
Transfer fish and water into a clean bucket
Then . . . .
Measure the Ph, salinity and temperature of the bag water. If you can, make up some water in a container that has exactly the same measurements as the bag readings and move the fish right over, then you can add a cup of tank water to bucket every 15 mins 6 times (almost 1.5 hours)
Then check salinity in bucket and compare to tank. If no match or very close, add a cup of water every few mins until youve reached salinity and trap fish in same cup and pour off water and release into display. Release under LOW light before lights out. Fish in shipped bags produce carbon dioxide and ammonia. The carbon dioxide lowers the pH of the water in the bag, That in turn makes the ammonia non-toxic to the fish.

I’ll use this method going forward, and I’ll make sure to upgrade my kits. Thanks for your help!

 

[jabberwock]

I am no expert, but it caught my attention that you are a mechanic. Is it possible that there is residual chemicals or oil on your hands that may have been introduced to the tank? Or strong soap that you might use to remove those contaminants from your hands? Just an out of the box thought...

 

[dans85]

I am no expert, but it caught my attention that you are a mechanic. Is it possible that there is residual chemicals or oil on your hands that may have been introduced to the tank? Or strong soap that you might use to remove those contaminants from your hands? Just an out of the box thought...

That’s definitely a good thought, I’m very careful about that. I always wash my hands very well and rinse with ro/di before working on the tank.

 

[jabberwock]

That’s definitely a good thought, I’m very careful about that. I always wash my hands very well and rinse with ro/di before working on the tank.

Maybe try some elbow length gloves? For working on the tank...

 

[Jay Hemdal]

I’ll pick up some poly filter. I’m a mechanic by trade, so I have a multimeter on hand. I checked for stray voltage this afternoon and it’s less than 1 volt.

Stray voltage (usually an induced voltage) is a red herring. Fish in a tank are not grounded, so there is no electrical potential. An actual short circuit can cause issues, but even then, the fish are fine, it is just a safety issue for you.

Jay