BTA Trouble

[noahwz]

so I’m relatively new to the reef keeping hobby have been doing it for less than a year. I recently upgraded my reef aquarium from a 16 gallon biocube which was about 6 months old to a 45 gallon jbj AIO.

I made the mistake on adding everything too soon and the tanks water parameters have not been very stable. When I first introduced things I had let the tank cycle with ammonia and tims nitrifying bacteria, water was testing well then, I made the mistake of not testing and assumed the tank had cycled when it hadn’t, fast forward to now, I’ve been doing 25% water changes every 1-2 days and testing water before and after each change, as my ammonia nitrite and nitrates were out of control which is was led me to the conclusion my tank had not finished its cycle and I jumped the gun.
I’m running bioballs, chemiclean blue, and bio ceramic rings.

I’ve added seachem pristine 2-3 times in the past few weeks to help control nutrients. Right now am not dosing anything else.

A week ago water parameters were:
Salinity: 1.025
Ph: 8.2
Kh: 8.5
Nitrite: 5.0ppm+
Nitrate: 40-60ppm
Ammonia: 2-3ppm
Phos: <0.25
Calcium: 480
Mag: 1525 (not dosing)

25% water changes daily and now water parameters are

Salinity: 1.025
Ph: 8.2
Kh: 8.5
Nitrite: 2-3ppm
Nitrate: 40ppm
Ammonia: 0.25ppm
Phos 0.15
Calcium 480
Mag 1500

All my inverts/fish/corals are doing well EXCEPT the green anemone. I have 7 anemones, 2 rock flower, 3 Rbta, 1 Gbta, 1 Black widow bta. It’s been throwing up zooxanthallae every single day, it will inflate maybe once a day for a few hours then deflate and start throwing up, I assumed that it was water parameters and have been trying to dilute nutrients to compensate for my error as moving everything into the old system is no longer an option. Only other thing I could think of was lighting, I’m running 150W nicrew about 12-16 inches from water surface, the nem is all the way at the bottom of the tank, other nems seems to enjoy the light, not sure if this one doesn’t? Had a frogspawn frag recently bleach and adjusted my lights and took it down lower in the tank to try to fix that.

Lighting is as follows:
6:30 am is 0% white 5% blue
7:00 am is 5% white 15% blue
8:30 am is 5 % white 40% blue
4:30 pm is 0% white 20% blue
6:30 pm is 0% white 10% blue
Lights off are off by 7:30pm and build and dim with a controller.

Not sure what else to do, absolutely know I jumped the gun on transferring but now I’m just trying to meditate and keeps things as happy as can be. And don’t want to mess with my lighting too much as I know it can make things worse in terms of corals and inverts trying to adapt to the lighting.

Please help

 

[areohen]

You should be running carbon with all those nems.

I previously had a nem tank with green, rainbow and black widow. Eventually the rainbow and green started to die off one by one. I ended up restarting my tank with just one type of bta with some rfa.
Sure people have had experience with keeping all these type of nems but in my experience, it didnt work out.

i would keep a close eye on the nem thats doing bad. Once his foot is not attached to anything, it might be a sign to take him out of the tank before it nukes your tank.

 

[noahwz]

Euphyllia normally like somewhere on the ballpark of 100-150 PAR. BTAs love 200 plus. Just my experience. Hope it works out!

That was my understanding as well, i am still trying to figure out roughly what par certain levels are in my tank with out a meter to read it. Currently my plan was to let the BTAs have their own rocks so they don't walk all over my coral on my big rocks, now I might just let them have the big rocks and work around them like I did in my smaller tank.

Knowing how BTAs walk all over the tank ...

They seem happy in their current lighting now however I can't imagine its anywhere near 200 maybe 100-125 max 150. feel like they could be happier up higher on the big rock though, might just set their current rocks on the big rock and see if they walk onto the new rock? not sure yet.

 

[Spare time]

That Nicrew light is not sufficient for the anemones you’re trying to keep and I worry that all of them will eventually start to do poorly. Anemones need a lot of light and you’ll really need to push that lighting schedule much higher to keep them healthy.

That light is plenty. Maybe not the percentage, but a 150w reef light is more than enough for an anemone.

 

[noahwz]

You should be running carbon with all those nems.

I previously had a nem tank with green, rainbow and black widow. Eventually the rainbow and green started to die off one by one. I ended up restarting my tank with just one type of bta with some rfa.
Sure people have had experience with keeping all these type of nems but in my experience, it didnt work out.

i would keep a close eye on the nem thats doing bad. Once his foot is not attached to anything, it might be a sign to take him out of the tank before it nukes your tank.

Absolutely agree, I just had my partner move the nem into our small quarantine tank with better parameters and see if anything changes.

Good to hear this was your experience as well, it's unfortunate but I'm feeling like some do fine together others don't, safest to not mix.

How long did it take for your nems to start declining? they have been in this tank x 1-2 weeks all looking fine for now, i know in this hobby things take time so want to know when i may start expecting an issue if they occur.

 

[noahwz]

That light is plenty. Maybe not the percentage, but a 150w reef light is more than enough for an anemone.

What percent do you suggest?

 

[Spare time]

What evidence is there that the anemones, all of the same species, are trying to kill one another? This seems to be a common internet myth and I'd ignore it.

 

[Spare time]

What percent do you suggest?

Hard to say without a par meter. I've only ever used the 100w and 50w versions.

 

[noahwz]

did your calcium climb quick to get to that level? I will say I noticed RBTA will ball up and not like when I up my calcium levels. Nem and euphyllia coral both do it.

My calcium has always been a little on the higher side, even in my small tank, it seems to mix high. Im using Fritz RPM because I like the parameters the most once its mixed for my LPS dominated tank.

Have not dosed anything other than bacteria in this tank since it started.

I do also use selcon in the mysis shrimp and once the tank stabilizes, I plan to dose red sea coral nutrients.

I'm not sure if its due to the frequency of my water changes, as i mentioned i have been doing them quit frequently to dilute nutrients, id assume that's why my calcium is still so high, nothing is given a chance to absorb/eat it up.

 

[crazyfishmom]

That light is plenty. Maybe not the percentage, but a 150w reef light is more than enough for an anemone.

Yes, the light itself should be fine. As it is set up now, it isn’t.

 

[Spare time]

did your calcium climb quick to get to that level? I will say I noticed RBTA will ball up and not like when I up my calcium levels. Nem and euphyllia coral both do it.

I've kept bubble tips with calcium levels 600ppm+ without issue. Same with my Euphyllia. I didn't realize my calcium was that high because I dose all for reef and rarely check calcium lol.

 

[Nano_Man]

Run carbon see if there’s a change . Bubble tip anemones in my experience love high nutrients . Medium flow I found the best with my nems . Your nem is definitely struggling keep an eye on it . They like stable conditions and if you change something in the tank flow / lighting they start moving about again for the best spot. A sign of low light they stretch up for the light. They don’t like fast changes in parameter’s and flow . Good luck hope things turn around for you.

 

[noahwz]

What evidence is there that the anemones, all of the same species, are trying to kill one another? This seems to be a common internet myth and I'd ignore it.

Funny enough, my first rose and first green came from the same tank in the pet store, both super happy and bubbled up. Hard to believe its true but didn't want to rule out completely.

 

[Jekyl]

What evidence is there that the anemones, all of the same species, are trying to kill one another? This seems to be a common internet myth and I'd ignore it.

As I said before there is no concrete evidence, just anecdotal. As seen plenty of times on this forum.
@OrionN @Rtaylor @Lost in the Sauce @Eagle_Steve

 

[rsmbudgetbuild2024]

I've kept bubble tips with calcium levels 600ppm+ without issue. Same with my Euphyllia. I didn't realize my calcium was that high because I dose all for reef and rarely check calcium lol.

From what I noticed, its not high calcium that bugs the nem & hammer coral, it's immediately after the dosing of it itself (the change vs. the level). Where they will both shrink and hammer will secrete a bit too. But I am doing it for their own good regardless as I need to up my levels to 430ppm at least. Currently at about 390.

My calcium has always been a little on the higher side, even in my small tank, it seems to mix high. Im using Fritz RPM because I like the parameters the most once its mixed for my LPS dominated tank.

Have not dosed anything other than bacteria in this tank since it started.

I do also use selcon in the mysis shrimp and once the tank stabilizes, I plan to dose red sea coral nutrients.

I'm not sure if its due to the frequency of my water changes, as i mentioned i have been doing them quit frequently to dilute nutrients, id assume that's why my calcium is still so high, nothing is given a chance to absorb/eat it up.

even slightly higher phosphates can inhibit the precipitation of calcium in the tank basically preventing it from being utilized by corals and inverts that need it even in a tank with super high Calc. Definitely a good idea with w/c's

 

[noahwz]

From what I noticed, its not high calcium that bugs the nem & hammer coral, it's immediately after the dosing of it itself (the change vs. the level). Where they will both shrink and hammer will secrete a bit too. But I am doing it for their own good regardless as I need to up my levels to 430ppm at least. Currently at about 390.



even slightly higher phosphates can inhibit the precipitation of calcium in the tank. Definitely a good idea with w/c's

That makes sense, id assume my calcium never drops because im a little hyper active when it comes to water changes on my tanks.

Still learning the patience of the hobby.

Have about 1k plus or minus in corals and fish, trying to reach stability and maintain it. in my 6 or so months of keeping salt water ive learned smaller is not better, should have started with a bigger tank to maintain stability since parameters shift slower. Still has been fun have only lost a torch that we bought already on its way out and tried to save it, and an indo elegance coral.... Hoping to keep it that way, the green nem now is in my smaller tank going to run carbon on both display and qt tank and see if things start to stabilize.

 

[noahwz]

From what I noticed, its not high calcium that bugs the nem & hammer coral, it's immediately after the dosing of it itself (the change vs. the level). Where they will both shrink and hammer will secrete a bit too. But I am doing it for their own good regardless as I need to up my levels to 430ppm at least. Currently at about 390.



even slightly higher phosphates can inhibit the precipitation of calcium in the tank basically preventing it from being utilized by corals and inverts that need it even in a tank with super high Calc. Definitely a good idea with w/c's

What is considered too high for phos? i dont have an exact but i know im somewhere between 0.00 and 0.25 roughly and understand phos should be on the lesser on but not completely untraceable?

 

[rsmbudgetbuild2024]

That makes sense, id assume my calcium never drops because im a little hyper active when it comes to water changes on my tanks.

Still learning the patience of the hobby.

Have about 1k plus or minus in corals and fish, trying to reach stability and maintain it. in my 6 or so months of keeping salt water ive learned smaller is not better, should have started with a bigger tank to maintain stability since parameters shift slower. Still has been fun have only lost a torch that we bought already on its way out and tried to save it, and an indo elegance coral.... Hoping to keep it that way, the green nem now is in my smaller tank going to run carbon on both display and qt tank and see if things start to stabilize.

I would try a less frequent but larger W/C (30-35%) vs. smaller more frequent ones. Give the tank a chance to stabilize, but also take out a good amount of nasties when its time for w/c.

What is considered too high for phos? i dont have an exact but i know im somewhere between 0.00 and 0.25 roughly and understand phos should be on the lesser on but not completely untraceable?

check out this article and scroll to the section Calcification Inhibition by Phosphate. Lots of good info there.

"Phosphate is known to inhibit the precipitation of calcium carbonate from seawater. The presence of phosphate in the water also decreases calcification in corals, and entire patch reefs.

This inhibition of calcification takes place at concentrations frequently attained in reef aquaria, and may begin at levels below those detectable by hobby test kits. For example, one research group found that long-term enrichment of phosphate (0.19 ppm; maintained for three hours per day) on a natural patch reef on the Great Barrier Reef inhibited overall coral calcification by 43%"

 

[noahwz]

I would try a less frequent but larger W/C (30-35%) vs. smaller more frequent ones. Give the tank a chance to stabilize, but also take out a good amount of nasties when its time for w/c.

planning on switching to biweekly schedule until i reach stability then move to every 1-2 weeks like I did in my previous one once thing settled down.

 

[SudzFD]

150w nicrew should be plenty. My kessil lights are only 90w each.

I think he meant the setting if the light were inadequate. I’d be using much more percentage of white and blue through the day. I’d consider slowly doubling this lighting percentage ratio.

 

[rsmbudgetbuild2024]

planning on switching to biweekly schedule until i reach stability then move to every 1-2 weeks like I did in my previous one once thing settled down.

good idea. Daily w/c at a quarter of the volume of water in your tank, while not horrible for tank parameters, could make things stressful on the coral and inverts in your tank just because they can't adjust to something consistent. Imagine your RBTA as saying, "why does this water feel different to me everyday?"

Remember, in this hobby, stability above all else ensures long term success. Reefs love stability.