Brightwell phosphate-E

[FlyPenFly]

Maybe I missed it somewhere but what’s the point of a 5 micron sock and not the standard 200 micron sock?

Probably to catch the particulate

 

[Garyjenson]

I feel I need reassurance and information to just get out there for newer reefers. Not necessarily help. Or if I misunderstood things, i would like it to be pointed out. My reef is about 1 year old and is my second reef tank.

My phosphate was at 1, so I decided to try out Brightwell phosphate-E due to a recent video from BRS stating world wide corals uses it and they will be also. Following the dosing instructions of 1 ml eliminates 1 ppm of phosphate and 1 capful equals 5 ml ( located under basic instructions on back of bottle), I dosed 2 capfuls into my sump directly onto my filter pads (100 micron to a 50 micron) leading to my skimmer (again as directed by bottle).

This clouded the water as the bottle suggested.

30 minutes later my 2 1/2 - 3 inch yellow tang showed distress and swam to the corner of the tank where I was sitting in what I would say, asking for help.

45 minutes later yellow tang was lethargic and at the bottom of tank gasping for air. I began to panic and did everything I could, added an air stone, increased top water surface agitation and utilized an aqua lifter feeding outside air pumping it directly to my pump to chop the bubbles.

2 hours later, yellow tang was dead
I am a hunter and fisherman living in Alaska, what that fish went through before passing was ridiculous as it slowly, and I mean SLOWLY choked to death on this chemical.

This bottle is labeled as “reef safe” however it truly is not in my opinion and what I witnessed. The ingredients are labeled on the bottle as “purified water, proprietary phosphate removers”.....
I would bet it is lanthanum chloride and I am stupid for not thinking before dosing. If this is the case, the little guys gills were coated with that crap preventing proper o2 exchange.

No other sign of distress were found/ noted in any other corals, fish or invertebrates in my reef.

Please, look into this and tell me if I am right or wrong because as a reefer I have one job, keep the critters alive and healthy. I failed. I feel new reefers or anyone with a tang should be warned.

P.S. the Tang was going to go into a larger 300g tank I was going to purchase and build, for you tang police out there. I spent a lot of time with this fish, turning it into a pet as it started to recognize me and come out. Normally it would hide around other people. I emailed Brightwell with my information but nothing has come back to me.

Specs below;
Specific gravity 1.024
Temp 78
PH 8.4
Alk 10
Ammonia undetected
Nitrite undetected
Nitrate 2
Phosphate 1
Calcium 400
Magnesium 1300

ATI essentials dosing on a dosing pump.
60 gallon shallow rimless 48"x24"x12", 20 gallon sump with reef octo classic 150int skimmer
1 tuxedo urchin wearing a large feather duster as a hat
4 blue green chromis not fighting, happily schooling
2 Peppermint shrimp that release eggs occasionally
1 six line wrass being a good boy for now
2 turbo snails
Several WWC Mixed reef corals

My apologies if this is not “proper” and the wall of words as I am still bothered by the loss of Sunny the yellow tang. Plus I am more of a lurker as this is my first thread. Thank you.

Ak flint ,it does require a few extra steps. I dont know if you have given up on it but here is my 2 cents. Ive had a 180 reef tank up and running 3 years. (200 total gallons) i test with hanna checkers ppb po4 and alk. Ive tried a 5 mic sock i noticed cloudiness in the sump. I switched to a 1 mic sock. I run water into the sock with a rodi bulkhead with a valve to shut off when not in use. I put a 200 micron sock inside as a prefilter. This helps the sock to not foul as quickly. I bought gimick iv bags online and drip controllers. Its a vinyl tube with a roller adjustment and a drip window. Like you see at the hospital. I add 5ml to 400 ml. And drip that in the sock. I also add air to aggitate the water ,though its probably not needed. I drip in SLOWLY. ...Now for why i suspect tangs die. Its the ph and alk swing. While the lacl drips in the sock i drip alk into the fuge. I find that a 50/50 mix of baking soda and washing soda at about 7 gm (in 400 ml rodi)total per 5 ml lacl. I do a double dose one after another. I find it drops my po4 from 80 to 40 ppb. The closer i get to zero the less effective it is. The lacl is more likely to react with alk than po4 at that point. Oh another reason you dont want lacl in the tank is that the precipitate can cloud your glass.

 

[NeverlosT]

Just wanted to offer that I just lost a yellow tang today, same deal, 340g tank, dosed 70ml slowly yesterday (well less than max dose) dripped into two nested 10 micron socks, didnt see any cloudiness in tank. Phos went from 0.33ppm to 0.08ppm, so reduction of only 0.25ppm. Didn't notice significant swing in alk or anything.

I wish I knew this product was such a danger to my fish, I would have stuck to GFO.

 

[Jenuvio]

It is certainly cheaper than GFO. It is usually an OK option if you do it correctly.

I believe I am not using it correctly. Dosed 1ml diluted in 8oz of water over 3 days and PO4 didn’t move. Using Red Sea Test Kit.

Any advice?

 

[Duffer]

I believe I am not using it correctly. Dosed 1ml diluted in 8oz of water over 3 days and PO4 didn’t move. Using Red Sea Test Kit.

Any advice?

This is the dose about, i did not see where what you are dosing listed, so you may not be dosing the right amount:

determine phosphate concentration in aquarium prior to first use by testing with an accurate test kit. Add product to aquarium near a mechanical filter or protein skimmer intake at the maximum rate of 5 ml (1 capful) per 20 US-gallons daily for each 1 ppm of phosphate present in system. When used in this fashion, 250 ml treats up to 1,000 US-gallons (3,785 L). Add weekly at same dosage to maintain an immeasurable reactive phosphate concentration.

also here is a calculator:
http://larryl.emailplus.org/fish/dosing-instructions-phosphate-removers.html

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I believe I am not using it correctly. Dosed 1ml diluted in 8oz of water over 3 days and PO4 didn’t move. Using Red Sea Test Kit.

Any advice?

Didn't move from what?
How long after adding did you measure?

There can be 50 times as much on rock and sand waiting to come off as is in the water. It may take a while to begin to see substantial drops.

 

[Jenuvio]

Didn't move from what?
How long after adding did you measure?

There can be 50 times as much on rock and sand waiting to come off as is in the water. It may take a while to begin to see substantial drops.

60G Volume - Dosed 1ml in 8oz over 3 days.
Tested every day after. PO4 - 0.12ppm

I will continue checking before I add more...

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

60G Volume - Dosed 1ml in 8oz over 3 days.
Tested every day after. PO4 - 0.12ppm

I will continue checking before I add more...

Yes, 24 h later, plenty may be released from the rock and sand, even if you dropped it a lot when first dosed.

That said, those values do not seem high enough to worry too much about.

 

[Jenuvio]

Yes, 24 h later, plenty may be released from the rock and sand, even if you dropped it a lot when first dosed.

That said, those values do not seem high enough to worry too much about.

So, Brightwell Phosphate-E starts to consume the PO4 off the rock and sand before the water column?

I am not worried much about the ppm, I’m more worried about the fact that I dosed Phos-E and nothing happened +_+

 

[Doctorgori]

Just wanted to offer that I just lost a yellow tang today, same deal, 340g tank, dosed 70ml slowly yesterday (well less than max dose) dripped into two nested 10 micron socks, didnt see any cloudiness in tank. Phos went from 0.33ppm to 0.08ppm, so reduction of only 0.25ppm. Didn't notice significant swing in alk or anything.

I wish I knew this product was such a danger to my fish, I would have stuck to GFO.

I’ve used Brightwells stuff for a while now, but I still also use GFO in a reactor: 1/2 the amt recommended and changed twice as often. This way I dose my lanthium in smaller amounts. I’ve never bothered with putting it in a sock but use the overflow (same difference really)

...anything less than a .5 drop hasn’t bothered anything so far, fingers crossed

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

So, Brightwell Phosphate-E starts to consume the PO4 off the rock and sand before the water column?

I am not worried much about the ppm, I’m more worried about the fact that I dosed Phos-E and nothing happened +_+

After you reduce the level in the water, some comes off the rock, raising the level back toward the starting point. . Repeat...Repeat...

It may take a long time and large doses if there is a lot on the rock, before the tank levels drop a lot.

 

[Hans2278]

After you reduce the level in the water, some comes off the rock, raising the level back toward the starting point. . Repeat...Repeat...

It may take a long time and large doses if there is a lot on the rock, before the tank levels drop a lot.

Thank You, this is what I’ve been missing.

 

[Captain coral]

Sorry to hear about your experience. I have been using it for a few months, but I dilute several mL into a gallon of water, and then drip it into my rollermat over several hours. It wreaks havoc on alkalinity, so for that reason alone I would take it super slow.

How is the Alkalinity impacted? Does it drive it up or down?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

How is the Alkalinity impacted? Does it drive it up or down?

Dosing lanthanum can tend to lower alkalinity.

 

[Mutton Biryani]

what an awesome thread. sadly I came across this a bi late. Had a mini crash after dosing it per instructions on the bottle.

After you reduce the level in the water, some comes off the rock, raising the level back toward the starting point. . Repeat...Repeat...

It may take a long time and large doses if there is a lot on the rock, before the tank levels drop a lot.

I did 2 water changes so far over 2 weeks ( 30-50% each time). Some are recovering, other corals are still ticked off.
How long does it stay on the rocks and sand? I plan on doing a few more large water changes in hopes to get this out.
sadly my phosphate still remains high at 0.2 ppm

 

[Roli's Reef Ranch]

I feel I need reassurance and information to just get out there for newer reefers. Not necessarily help. Or if I misunderstood things, i would like it to be pointed out. My reef is about 1 year old and is my second reef tank.

My phosphate was at 1, so I decided to try out Brightwell phosphate-E due to a recent video from BRS stating world wide corals uses it and they will be also. Following the dosing instructions of 1 ml eliminates 1 ppm of phosphate and 1 capful equals 5 ml ( located under basic instructions on back of bottle), I dosed 2 capfuls into my sump directly onto my filter pads (100 micron to a 50 micron) leading to my skimmer (again as directed by bottle).

This clouded the water as the bottle suggested.

30 minutes later my 2 1/2 - 3 inch yellow tang showed distress and swam to the corner of the tank where I was sitting in what I would say, asking for help.

45 minutes later yellow tang was lethargic and at the bottom of tank gasping for air. I began to panic and did everything I could, added an air stone, increased top water surface agitation and utilized an aqua lifter feeding outside air pumping it directly to my pump to chop the bubbles.

2 hours later, yellow tang was dead
I am a hunter and fisherman living in Alaska, what that fish went through before passing was ridiculous as it slowly, and I mean SLOWLY choked to death on this chemical.

This bottle is labeled as “reef safe” however it truly is not in my opinion and what I witnessed. The ingredients are labeled on the bottle as “purified water, proprietary phosphate removers”.....
I would bet it is lanthanum chloride and I am stupid for not thinking before dosing. If this is the case, the little guys gills were coated with that crap preventing proper o2 exchange.

No other sign of distress were found/ noted in any other corals, fish or invertebrates in my reef.

Please, look into this and tell me if I am right or wrong because as a reefer I have one job, keep the critters alive and healthy. I failed. I feel new reefers or anyone with a tang should be warned.

P.S. the Tang was going to go into a larger 300g tank I was going to purchase and build, for you tang police out there. I spent a lot of time with this fish, turning it into a pet as it started to recognize me and come out. Normally it would hide around other people. I emailed Brightwell with my information but nothing has come back to me.

Specs below;
Specific gravity 1.024
Temp 78
PH 8.4
Alk 10
Ammonia undetected
Nitrite undetected
Nitrate 2
Phosphate 1
Calcium 400
Magnesium 1300

ATI essentials dosing on a dosing pump.
60 gallon shallow rimless 48"x24"x12", 20 gallon sump with reef octo classic 150int skimmer
1 tuxedo urchin wearing a large feather duster as a hat
4 blue green chromis not fighting, happily schooling
2 Peppermint shrimp that release eggs occasionally
1 six line wrass being a good boy for now
2 turbo snails
Several WWC Mixed reef corals

My apologies if this is not “proper” and the wall of words as I am still bothered by the loss of Sunny the yellow tang. Plus I am more of a lurker as this is my first thread. Thank you.

Tough break. Here is a good video on the topic:

 

[spideybry]

From my perspective Phosphate-E is working out great. It's finally given me the ability to keep phosphates near zero, consistently. Before, I really struggled with the GFO roller coaster ride. Now I dose the appropriate ml's of Phosphate-E spread out through the day, using a dosing pump. This has also helped me maintain alkalinity much better than before, and most of all it's made the process relatively predictable. I use Core7 with a refugium and now when I change the Core7 dose the alkalinity changes as it should (more Core7 = more alkalinity). I've attached and updated version of the alkalinity & Core7 graph, which illustrates the improvements. It's still not perfect, but it's great to not have the big swings in alkalinity. But most of all it's been wonderful to see my corals doing much better. I hope this helps.

This is some good data. Are you still keeping with dosing/logging?

 

[Tim Olson]

This is some good data. Are you still keeping with dosing/logging?

Yep, I'm still keeping track of water parameters and usually test every 1-2 days. Although, I'm not dosing Phosphate-E anymore. I quit dosing it last August, since it turned out it was killing my Chaeto in my refugium. I ended up chasing Phosphates with the Phosphate-E over about 3 months, reaching a whopping 0.1590 ppm. The dosing level became too high, though, and almost nuked my refugium. So, I had to switch back to GFO and the refugium fully recovered. I really don't like using GFO, since it's a lot more work and results in up and down swings. I'm hoping I find another solution to controlling Phosphates that maintains a more even level.

I hope this helps.

 

[spideybry]

Yep, I'm still keeping track of water parameters and usually test every 1-2 days. Although, I'm not dosing Phosphate-E anymore. I quit dosing it last August, since it turned out it was killing my Chaeto in my refugium. I ended up chasing Phosphates with the Phosphate-E over about 3 months, reaching a whopping 0.1590 ppm. The dosing level became too high, though, and almost nuked my refugium. So, I had to switch back to GFO and the refugium fully recovered. I really don't like using GFO, since it's a lot more work and results in up and down swings. I'm hoping I find another solution to controlling Phosphates that maintains a more even level.

I hope this helps.

It does, it's one of the reasons why I am looking for an alternative to GFO as well.

I also like the idea of something quantifiable - if my po4 is X, adding Y of what ever, will result in Z drop.

The idea for me was to use Phosphat-E longterm since I keep a few NPS corals and they like to be fed a lot, that coupled with a massive die off of Caulerpa Brachypus has left me with a bunch of excess nutrients in the water (mainly po4).

Right now dosing seems to work somewhat for me since I just started an ATS, but I feel like eventually the po4 being pulled out will affect my scrubber as well.

I appreciate the data and info though.

 

[Tim Olson]

It does, it's one of the reasons why I am looking for an alternative to GFO as well.

I also like the idea of something quantifiable - if my po4 is X, adding Y of what ever, will result in Z drop.

The idea for me was to use Phosphat-E longterm since I keep a few NPS corals and they like to be fed a lot, that coupled with a massive die off of Caulerpa Brachypus has left me with a bunch of excess nutrients in the water (mainly po4).

Right now dosing seems to work somewhat for me since I just started an ATS, but I feel like eventually the po4 being pulled out will affect my scrubber as well.

I appreciate the data and info though.

So, how many ml are you dosing? I feed too much but am afraid if I back off it will starve the corals, crabs and Mandarins.

Also, do you know what caused the die off of the Caularpa Brachypus? I have a bunch of it in my display tank that is generally kept in control with Pitho crabs.

Thanks