boxfish with ich

[laughing tang]

We purchased a boxfish yesterday, it is in the QT and looks to have some ich spots on the tail, fins and on his body a tiny bit. We saw it at the LFS last Saturday and it had ich then; no ich when we purchased it but no doubt the stress of the trip home and a new environment brought it on. It ate very well yesterday and acts normal.

The QT is 20 gallons, I will check water parameters in a bit but wanted to get the post started as I know time is always of the essence. We are soaking his food in garlic this morning. We have coppersafe on hand but I'm interested to know if they can handle copper and at what level, or it the tank transfer method better since they are more delicate. Then again that could create more stress.

We have paraguard, prazipro, hydroplex as well and the triplex. We don't have specific ich medication though.

Any input appreciated. We are well versed on boxfish, it's been a long awaited dream to have one; he will be housed in his own tank. We hope we can get him through quarantine.

Horned nose boxfish

 

[Jekyl]

Coppersafe should be fine. Follow the protocol in the stickies at the top of disease forum

 

[vetteguy53081]

We purchased a boxfish yesterday, it is in the QT and looks to have some ich spots on the tail, fins and on his body a tiny bit. We saw it at the LFS last Saturday and it had ich then; no ich when we purchased it but no doubt the stress of the trip home and a new environment brought it on. It ate very well yesterday and acts normal.

The QT is 20 gallons, I will check water parameters in a bit but wanted to get the post started as I know time is always of the essence. We are soaking his food in garlic this morning. We have coppersafe on hand but I'm interested to know if they can handle copper and at what level, or it the tank transfer method better since they are more delicate. Then again that could create more stress.

We have paraguard, prazipro, hydroplex as well and the triplex. We don't have specific ich medication though.

Any input appreciated. We are well versed on boxfish, it's been a long awaited dream to have one; he will be housed in his own tank. We hope we can get him through quarantine.

Horned nose boxfish

Keep copper close to 2… their honeycomb scales can also puff a little bit but assure good water quality is maintained and aeration added with air stone
Hanna brand copper test is best and do not use tank water to set up the quarantine system

 

[VinnyBoy]

I’ve always been told and read that boxfish do not do well with copper, so I treated mine by doing hyposalinity and I think you should consider it since it’s only ich (it does not treat velvet). It’s chemical free and much easier on the fish.

 

[laughing tang]

Thank you both. We could try hyposalinity, since yes he is doing well otherwise - @vetteguy53081 what do you think?

So I neglected to say (for ease of the post) we got a second boxfish with the horned nose (basically hoping at least 1 would survive - if they both do well.... more tanks); they were in the same tank at the LFS. He also had ich last saturday, no ich when we picked him up. He is a scribbled. The two are in separate QT tanks (indeed not with main tank water but freshly prepared saltwater). He however is not eating, and this morning I observed an odd swimming behavior, as if he wants to shake something off. I hope this video shows it adequately. He worries me more than the horned nose since he is not eating and quite shy. He did try to pick at some algae sheets yesterday but not this morning. Ignored brine shrimp, mysis and bloodworms, just watches them float by. Gets a little excited, but not eating. He ate at the LFS we were told (they are reputable).

We had no airstones in the tank having heard they can swallow the bubbles. We did add airstones this morning with a PVC pipe around it. The scribbled seems to be attracted to it.

I am presuming dipping these guys is far too stressful, and likely there would not be much gain. Again, this is just the first day in the QT since we got them yesterday afternoon. It was a rather long trip home (an hour) due to road closures, just our luck.

Your help is much appreciated!

 

[Jekyl]

I’ve always been told and read that boxfish do not do well with copper, so I treated mine by doing hyposalinity and I think you should consider it since it’s only ich (it does not treat velvet). It’s chemical free and much easier on the fish.

Coppersafe and copper power are better in this situation. The other coppers out there are much harsher.

 

[laughing tang]

Coppersafe and copper power are better in this situation. The other coppers out there are much harsher.

Thank you. Copper power recommends starting with 1/4 to 1/2 dose, your thoughts?

 

[Jekyl]

Thank you. Copper power recommends starting with 1/4 to 1/2 dose, your thoughts?

Like vetteguy mentioned there is still some concern using copper. Ensure foremost that you have a good test like hanna. You'll want to keep the levels between 2.2 and 2.0. Anything below 2.0 is insufficient and can restart the 30 day clock.

 

[William Chiavetta]

Im sorry about this. I know it sucks for that little cute boxfish

 

[laughing tang]

Like vetteguy mentioned there is still some concern using copper. Ensure foremost that you have a good test like hanna. You'll want to keep the levels between 2.2 and 2.0. Anything below 2.0 is insufficient and can restart the 30 day clock.

Thanks yes we have the Hanna checker. Still though, it's awfully hard to get to 2.0 and not overshoot, esp with water changes and having to wait 6 hours before you can test.

 

[vetteguy53081]

Thank you. Copper power recommends starting with 1/4 to 1/2 dose, your thoughts?

Go to at least 2.1 level as mentioned
Half dose and ramping allows disease to take hold of the fish

 

[laughing tang]

Go to at least 2.1 level as mentioned
Half dose and ramping allows disease to take hold of the fish

As in dose 2 ppm right off the bat? That seems like too much for a copper sensitive fish...

 

[Jay Hemdal]

I’ve always been told and read that boxfish do not do well with copper, so I treated mine by doing hyposalinity and I think you should consider it since it’s only ich (it does not treat velvet). It’s chemical free and much easier on the fish.

Hyposalinity works well for boxfish. The issues with boxfish and copper all stem from using ionic copper on them - they tolerate amine chelated copper pretty well.

 

[MnFish1]

We purchased a boxfish yesterday, it is in the QT and looks to have some ich spots on the tail, fins and on his body a tiny bit. We saw it at the LFS last Saturday and it had ich then; no ich when we purchased it but no doubt the stress of the trip home and a new environment brought it on. It ate very well yesterday and acts normal.

The QT is 20 gallons, I will check water parameters in a bit but wanted to get the post started as I know time is always of the essence. We are soaking his food in garlic this morning. We have coppersafe on hand but I'm interested to know if they can handle copper and at what level, or it the tank transfer method better since they are more delicate. Then again that could create more stress.

We have paraguard, prazipro, hydroplex as well and the triplex. We don't have specific ich medication though.

Any input appreciated. We are well versed on boxfish, it's been a long awaited dream to have one; he will be housed in his own tank. We hope we can get him through quarantine.

Horned nose boxfish

If you purchased a boxfish yesterday - and has ich spots on the tail - 1. It Had Ich when you bought it. 2. You need not soak food in garlic. You should use the copper safe as per the directions. After that - you should use prazipro per the instructions in the QT protocol - being careful with the dose - and oxygenation

 

[laughing tang]

Hyposalinity works well for boxfish. The issues with boxfish and copper all stem from using ionic copper on them - they tolerate amine chelated copper pretty well.

Thank Jay.

It's a tough choice; I found when we did copper on the anthias it was a bit problematic tracking ammonia. I'm more comfortable with hyposalinity, but also realize some ich strains are resistant. I suppose it if doesn't work we could always do copper after. I think we are going to try hyposalinity first - although I realize PH and dKH will be a struggle. Having just raised clownfish fry through 79 DPH I'm fairly well versed in that.

We started lowering salinity an hour ago...

The scribbled is more out and about this afternoon and not swimming weirdly like he did this morning; I am guessing the airstone helped, and realizing nothing is going to eat him.

Fingers crossed on these, I know how finicky they are, this is our second try at it over many years. We have for so long wanted one. My other question is, I know these guys need room; the scribbled is in a 27 gallon QT, the horned nose in a 20 QT. They are about 2-2.5" I'd say not counting the tails (so definitely not the very young ones you often see in the trade). Is the small size of the QTs going to stress them? We are setting up a dedicated 100 gallon but it will take a couple weeks I imagine, although we could hurry up if it is an issue.

 

[laughing tang]

If you purchased a boxfish yesterday - and has ich spots on the tail - 1. It Had Ich when you bought it. 2. You need not soak food in garlic. You should use the copper safe as per the directions. After that - you should use prazipro per the instructions in the QT protocol - being careful with the dose - and oxygenation

Thanks. I did not mean to imply it didn't have ich but rather it didn't have the spots at the time. Poor phrasing and thought process early in the morning . Like I said to Jay, after much hemming and hawing we'll go hyposalinity. After the 30 days HS is completed, prazipro as you said, if we get that far.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Thank Jay.

It's a tough choice; I found when we did copper on the anthias it was a bit problematic tracking ammonia. I'm more comfortable with hyposalinity, but also realize some ich strains are resistant. I suppose it if doesn't work we could always do copper after. I think we are going to try hyposalinity first - although I realize PH and dKH will be a struggle. Having just raised clownfish fry through 79 DPH I'm fairly well versed in that.

We started lowering salinity an hour ago...

The scribbled is more out and about this afternoon and not swimming weirdly like he did this morning; I am guessing the airstone helped, and realizing nothing is going to eat him.

Fingers crossed on these, I know how finicky they are, this is our second try at it over many years. We have for so long wanted one. My other question is, I know these guys need room; the scribbled is in a 27 gallon QT, the horned nose in a 20 QT. They are about 2-2.5" I'd say not counting the tails (so definitely not the very young ones you often see in the trade). Is the small size of the QTs going to stress them? We are setting up a dedicated 100 gallon but it will take a couple weeks I imagine, although we could hurry up if it is an issue.

I think for the treatment period, as long as you manage the ammonia, the tank size will be fine. Dealers hold these fish in cube systems for weeks with no issues, but they have central filter systems.

 

[laughing tang]

I think for the treatment period, as long as you manage the ammonia, the tank size will be fine. Dealers hold these fish in cube systems for weeks with no issues, but they have central filter systems.

We almost have specific gravity down to 1.009, keeping a close eye on PH and buffering. The horned nose boxfish is doing very well and eating like a champ. The scribbled boxfish however has not eaten anything now since Thursday afternoon. He did poop at some point so he must have been eating at the LFS since they had him for 2-3 weeks (although maybe he was just plucking around the tank). We've tried frozen brine, mysis, bloodworms, rods. Literally dumped it on his head; no response. Today we tried live brine shrimp and bloodworms, and frozen clam on the shell, no response. We've got algae clamped in the tank just in case. Any idea what else we can try? He does swim around more freely, I do not see any distress besides the ich. Thanks.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

We almost have specific gravity down to 1.009, keeping a close eye on PH and buffering. The horned nose boxfish is doing very well and eating like a champ. The scribbled boxfish however has not eaten anything now since Thursday afternoon. He did poop at some point so he must have been eating at the LFS since they had him for 2-3 weeks (although maybe he was just plucking around the tank). We've tried frozen brine, mysis, bloodworms, rods. Literally dumped it on his head; no response. Today we tried live brine shrimp and bloodworms, and frozen clam on the shell, no response. We've got algae clamped in the tank just in case. Any idea what else we can try? He does swim around more freely, I do not see any distress besides the ich. Thanks.

It may be an issue limited to the boxfish. If BOTH fish were not eating, that could be attributed to some tank wide issue; water quality or disease.

So the boxfish WAS eating for you and has now stopped, or has it not eaten for you at all? Do you know the scientific name for it? I couldn’t get the imbedded video to play. Some boxfish are more delicate.

 

[laughing tang]

It may be an issue limited to the boxfish. If BOTH fish were not eating, that could be attributed to some tank wide issue; water quality or disease.

So the boxfish WAS eating for you and has now stopped, or has it not eaten for you at all? Do you know the scientific name for it? I couldn’t get the imbedded video to play. Some boxfish are more delicate.

He is an Ostracion solorensis, scribbled or reticulate boxfish. They are more delicate than the horned nose boxfish. The two were together in the tank at the LFS. They are in separate QT tanks. Both have ich but no other signs. The scribbled boxfish had an odd swimming pattern (rocking back and forth) and was attracted to the bubbler. I presume it was the ich bothering him. He now swims normally. He is much shier; the horned nose is gregarious by comparison. The two were at the LFS for about 2-3 weeks and both eating they said. We picked them up last Thursday afternoon. He has not eaten since we have had him so that is now 3 days. I did think he picked at some algae we put in, but i've not seen any evidence of that since, but there is a clip with algae in the tank.

I uploaded a video of him this morning to youtube: video

Thank you. I do hope we can save him.