Bottled Bacteria, AquaBiomics. Just what's in your bottles

[BeanAnimal]

I mean no offense at all, because it wasnt your phrasing originally anyway. But this distinction "good vs bad" is oversimplified to the point of being misleading. There is not a scientific study that identitifies "good" versus "bad" bacteria.

I mean no offense either, but this feels like a bit of pedantic dithering, especially in context to this particular conversation.

 

[rtparty]

Like ICP, this is an area that will go down as looking cool but providing next to nothing. We can have all the data in the world but no one can tell you what to do with that data.

Ok, so I have bacteria A and decided it’s likely bad for my system. Now what? Is there some other bacteria I can dose to fight it off? Do I have to use an antibiotic? What other bacteria will be killed by that antibiotic? Is the only way to solve this to send off multiple kits and hope and pray?

Even if we identify all the bacteria there is no action to be done. Just like ICP testing. It’s all guesswork.

 

[BeanAnimal]

Like ICP, this is an area that will go down as looking cool but providing next to nothing. We can have all the data in the world but no one can tell you what to do with that data.

I feel the same about so many aspects of this hobby. PAR meters are up on my list of tools that provide fairly useless data that but have become "indispensable" in the eyes of most.

 

[Garf]

Ok, so I have bacteria A and decided it’s likely bad for my system. Now what? Is there some other bacteria I can dose to fight it off? Do I have to use an antibiotic? What other bacteria will be killed by that antibiotic? Is the only way to solve this to send off multiple kits and hope and pray?

The exudates from these bacteria can also effect populations of other bacteria, along with food inputs, exudates from coral and CCA, nitrate, phosphate, Alk, element availability, organics produced in tank, etc, etc. Therefore I think directed changes in population are uncontrollable by mere humans, even if folks knew what the targets were originally, which we don't.

 

[areefer01]

I feel the same about so many aspects of this hobby. PAR meters are up on my list of tools that provide fairly useless data that but have become "indispensable" in the eyes of most.

But the newly developed light states that it was 'Engineered to Grow a Thriving Reef and Influenced by nature'...

 

[rtparty]

The exudates from these bacteria can also effect populations of other bacteria, along with food inputs, exudates from coral and CCA, nitrate, phosphate, Alk, element availability, organics produced in tank, etc, etc. Therefore I think directed changes in population are uncontrollable by mere humans, even if folks knew what the targets were originally, which we don't.

All that is above my low level education and pay grade

What I do know is after watching this hobby for nearly 2 decades is our systems are far more complicated than any of us likely grasp. Killing off, or attempting to, one strain of bacteria will have far reaching consequences that no one can predict.

Let’s not even get into just how unsafe it is to throw antibiotics around all Willy nilly. So I’m back to my original thought of: ok, so we crack the code of what A B C do, what’s the treatment plan? If that treatment plan is to use antibiotics with unknown consequences, that plan is dead in the water and should NEVER gain traction in the hobby IMO

 

[rtparty]

I feel the same about so many aspects of this hobby. PAR meters are up on my list of tools that provide fairly useless data that but have become "indispensable" in the eyes of most.

Because I’m a tech nerd I love having a PAR meter to play with. I test the sun coming through my windows onto plants randomly.

Not to get off topic, although it sort of fits, we shouldn’t need PAR meters if the companies making the lights did their job. Just like labels on bottles. If the company would do their job and be transparent, hobbyists wouldn’t have to foot the bill to test all this crap.

 

[areefer01]

Not to get off topic, although it sort of fits, we shouldn’t need PAR meters if the companies making the lights did their job. Just like labels on bottles. If the company would do their job and be transparent, hobbyists wouldn’t have to foot the bill to test all this crap.

See, this is the trap that these sort of threads fall into. What job are the lights not doing?

 

[BeanAnimal]

Because I’m a tech nerd I love having a PAR meter to play with. I test the sun coming through my windows onto plants randomly.

Not to get off topic, although it sort of fits, we shouldn’t need PAR meters if the companies making the lights did their job. Just like labels on bottles. If the company would do their job and be transparent, hobbyists wouldn’t have to foot the bill to test all this crap.

For another thread... but PAR really tells you very little, as the spectrum it covers (aggregates) into a single number is comprised of a broad range, some of which the coral needs, and some which it doesn't. Two fixtures with identical "PAR" can have wildy different spectral outputs, with one being great for coral growth and the other, not so great.

It is a misused tool that the community accepts and promotes as beneficial, if not essential. It is laughable.

 

[BeanAnimal]

Between advertisements, fancy video effects and a general motivation to generate likes, I find video to be a waste of time.

The cumulative wast in human time dedicated toward both saying and having to sit through "Hey guys, blah blah here, smash that like and subscribe button" alone is staggering. add the intros in, the ridiculous act of "unboxing" and the rest of it.... To each their own, but not for me.

Back to the thread.

I agree wholeheartedly that even if we know what is in our tanks and these products, we have no idea what action to take. That does not preclude me from wanting to know what is in the products to begin with. In the case of this thread, I am not going to pretend that "bad and good" is just a matter of general perspective. Do these contain pathogens? If so, that is somewhat bothersome, even if a biologist would think it was interesting.

 

[rtparty]

See, this is the trap that these sort of threads fall into. What job are the lights not doing?

There is no reason they can’t add into the apps where you tell it your tank size, corals being kept, how many lights and how they’re setup over the tank including height from water. It will then set the percentage needed for your coral type.

Not tough to do

 

[areefer01]

There is no reason they can’t add into the apps where you tell it your tank size, corals being kept, how many lights and how they’re setup over the tank including height from water. It will then set the percentage needed for your coral type.

Not tough to do

That is an application wish, not a hardware limitation of the light. Even then the reason why that isn't done is because corals are different be it soft, polyp, or stone not to mention aquaculture or wild collected. Also hobbyist will have a different amount of rock and coral maturity not to mention water quality.

I'm starting to feel we are asking for guard/bumper rails for reef keeping.

 

[telegraham]

I stole an idea from @telegraham

Look at all the pontification your thread conjured up! It’s like there a side chat that clues in those who have little to offer.

We can have all the data in the world but no one can tell you what to do with that data.

We’d never go faster than the speed of sound, too, and yet… Ain’t the internet grand?

 

[Oldreefer44]

That is an application wish, not a hardware limitation of the light. Even then the reason why that isn't done is because corals are different be it soft, polyp, or stone not to mention aquaculture or wild collected. Also hobbyist will have a different amount of rock and coral maturity not to mention water quality.

I'm starting to feel we are asking for guard/bumper rails for reef keeping.

Interesting that the Straton Pros now tell you what your PAR is at incremental depths depending on your light mix.

 

[Solo McReefer]

Look at all the pontification your thread conjured up! It’s like there a side chat that clues in those who have little to offer.

We’d never go faster than the speed of sound, too, and yet… Ain’t the internet grand?

I'm sorry man for dragging you into it

Truly

I didn't know

 

[areefer01]

Interesting that the Straton Pros now tell you what your PAR is at incremental depths depending on your light mix.

Equally interesting that ATI states on their ATI Straton FAQ that PAR is an important buzzword for reef tank lighting as most corals will do well in particular ranges.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I find it so interesting that you have time to share here, yet no time to seek answers where answers can be found. Smells like words for the sake of words.

Because I'm handy with copy/paste, I've shared your thoughts with those who can actually help.

Glad you find it interesting. Maybe after you answer the same questions 56,321 times trying to help people, and don't have time to look up everything you might want to know, you wont' find it so unexpected.

 

[Dan_P]

Insert Acktually Meme Here

Yes, of course. Thanks for straightening me out.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

You have it exactly right.

One might wonder why a trained chemist would spend so little time reading the scientific literature to answer his questions, and instead complains on a forum.

You are right. I'm caught. I've been paid thousands of dollars by a new competitor of yours to plant suggestive questions to make folks ask questions and think deeper about what is a "favorable strain" of bacteria, as well as asking to be educated myself since your web site fails to do that. That is literally the term used above, with no clarification what that means. I strongly think you and I may have qute different definitions of what that means.

If an expert scientist comes away from your web site not knowing if the service is useful or how it would be used, and especially if folks reading comments like "planning to evaluate the effects of husbandry techniques on "favorable strains"" cannot know what that even means, I do not think it is my fault that you have communicated it poorly to potential users. You say I, as a reefer, need to read the scientific literature more than I already do to understand what you mean? Seriously? Maybe my answer to the last 3,000 questions asking about how to raise pH should just say,

"one wonders why you cannot read the literature and figure that out for yourself".

Yep, that 's the ticket.

Your post and other posts here seem to suggest that there's no possibility of folks having different opinions on what beneficial and detrimental bacteria are, how they were identified, or validated, in what scenarios they may be favorable or unfavorable for the same bacteria, etc..

Best that folks just accept your assertions.

 

[GlassMunky]

Glad you find it interesting. Maybe after you answer the same questions 56,321 times trying to help people, and don't have time to look up everything you might want to know, you wont' find it so unexpected.

If you have such a disdain for it/us why still be here? Just so you can seem smart and know everything despite not even owning a reef tank for many years?