Blonde Naso Tang, Is this Black spot or normal?

[lakvinu]

Hi Guys,

Any help would be appreciated. Got this new fish recently i know i shouldve done a quarantine but i didnt. Added this Naso tang, he's eating and he seems to be going good. He is also fairly active swimming from left to right but i assume thats just his personality. But i've noticed these black spots like the ones in the image. Not sure if this is normal or black spots. I've tried my best to get a picture with the spots. If its not clear enough let me know. Im considering adding API General Cure into this tank? What do you guys think?

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Hi Guys,

Any help would be appreciated. Got this new fish recently i know i shouldve done a quarantine but i didnt. Added this Naso tang, he's eating and he seems to be going good. He is also fairly active swimming from left to right but i assume thats just his personality. But i've noticed these black spots like the ones in the image. Not sure if this is normal or black spots. I've tried my best to get a picture with the spots. If its not clear enough let me know. Im considering adding API General Cure into this tank? What do you guys think?

Welcome to Reef2Reef!

Sorry, the picture is too dark and too blue for me to make out the spots you are talking about.

A common cause for small black spots on tangs are turbellarian worms. General Cure doesn’t work on those, but they sometimes go away on their own.

Jay

 

[lakvinu]

Welcome to Reef2Reef!

Sorry, the picture is too dark and too blue for me to make out the spots you are talking about.

A common cause for small black spots on tangs are turbellarian worms. General Cure doesn’t work on those, but they sometimes go away on their own.

Jay

Do you suggest just ignoring it for now then?

 

[lakvinu]

Welcome to Reef2Reef!

Sorry, the picture is too dark and too blue for me to make out the spots you are talking about.

A common cause for small black spots on tangs are turbellarian worms. General Cure doesn’t work on those, but they sometimes go away on their own.

Jay

@Jay Hemdal
On the link below i saw that API General Cure was a possible treatment hence where i got that information.

On this link: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/black-ich-turbellarians.259912/

 

[vetteguy53081]

Hi Guys,

Any help would be appreciated. Got this new fish recently i know i shouldve done a quarantine but i didnt. Added this Naso tang, he's eating and he seems to be going good. He is also fairly active swimming from left to right but i assume thats just his personality. But i've noticed these black spots like the ones in the image. Not sure if this is normal or black spots. I've tried my best to get a picture with the spots. If its not clear enough let me know. Im considering adding API General Cure into this tank? What do you guys think?

May be black ich - Not ich the parasite but turbellian worms but agree, need a pic with brighter white light to clearly see the fish

 

[lakvinu]

May be black ich - Not ich the parasite but turbellian worms but agree, need a pic with brighter white light to clearly see the fish

@vetteguy53081 Will send a better picture, its night time here in Aus so cant send now. Will send later. If it is indeed black ich what is the course of action. Prefer not to remove the naso tang from the main tank if possible

 

[Jay Hemdal]

@Jay Hemdal
On the link below i saw that API General Cure was a possible treatment hence where i got that information.

On this link: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/black-ich-turbellarians.259912/

Yes - that is outdated information. Here is some more current text that I wrote for my upcoming book:

Turbellarian Infection (a.k.a. black spot disease, black ich, tang disease)​

Turbellarians are a group of worms related to trematodes. They often go undiagnosed as a cause of active infections in fishes except for one group: Paravortex sp.

Cause and symptoms
Since this disease is often seen in newly acquired fish, the suspicion is that the fish bring the disease with them and become infected due to the transport stress they endure.

This parasite causes very distinctive black spots on some species of fish, most notably tangs and surgeonfish. Other fish that may become infected with Paravortex include butterflyfishes, angelfishes, gobies, and jawfishes.

The worm encysts under the fish’s skin, and the fish deposits black melanin pigment as a reaction to the infection. Since these spots are so apparent to even the casual observer, this disease is easily diagnosed, even by beginning aquarists.

Often self-limiting
The problem is that this sometimes causes the aquarist to overreact and begin a treatment that actually might be more harmful than the disease itself. It turns out that many cases of Paravortex infections are self-limiting; unless tank conditions are very poor, the worms often die out and the infection goes away on its own.

Only if the spots increase greatly in number (more than 20 spots on a fish) or the fish begin showing other signs of ill health should treatment be undertaken.


Cleanliness counts
Some aquarists have reported that careful siphon-cleaning of the aquarium substrate and improving overall cleanliness in the aquarium helps to reduce this infection. It is possible that Paravortex has a non-parasitic, free-living form at one stage of its life cycle and that careful cleaning will remove the parasite at that point.


Some turbellarians are tougher to diagnosis
There are other turbellarians that do not cause melanistic skin changes in fish and are much more difficult to diagnose. Ichthyophaga is one type known to infect fishes and can cause significant fish loss in crowded conditions. Diagnosis of this parasite generally requires a skin scrape.


It’s also noteworthy that treatment with freshwater dips may contort the worm’s body shape so much that positive identification is difficult. In some cases, no real symptoms are seen until fish loss occurs. Under the microscope, look for an oval-shaped worm with a pair of dark eyespots. There is a digenean trematode that causes similar lesions, Scaphanocephalus and related genera. These produce more diffuse black spots (often on surgeonfish) and because of their complicated life cycles, do not need to be treated as the disease won’t progress without secondary and tertiary hosts.

Treatment options
Because turbellarians cause a fairly deep-seated infection, they are difficult to remove using freshwater dips or other topical treatments. Other treatment options that have been utilized with varying degrees of effectiveness include:

A 45-minute formalin dip at 166 ppm can be effective, but then the fish must be moved to a non-infected aquarium.

Chloroquine at 15 to 20 ppm has been shown to be an effective treatment, but some fish may experience toxic reactions at this dose.

Organophosphate pesticides, such as Trichlorfon (Dylox), have been the treatment of choice for many years but cannot be recommended due to their potential toxicity to humans.

Some treatments are not effective, but because this disease is often self-limiting, they can appear to work:

Praziquantel at 2 mg/l is a safe, commonly used treatment for trematode worms, but despite being “prescribed” by many people, it is not effective for turbellarians. Praziquantel doesn’t kill worms, it just causes them to relax their grip and let go of the fish. These turbellarians are beneath the skin, so do not drop off easily when exposed to praziquantel.

Copper treatments are ineffective, at least at the concentrations well tolerated by fish.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Do you suggest just ignoring it for now then?

No - I'd prefer that you get clearer photos under white light so that I can better judge the extent of the infection. Severe cases can kill fish, but minor cases often just go away on their own.

Is the naso doing well otherwise? I'm getting a LOT of reports of blonde nasos dying a few weeks after importation, with no real symptoms. I suspect it is due to handling/shipping issues, but I'm urging people to carefully consider buying this species.....

 

[lakvinu]

No - I'd prefer that you get clearer photos under white light so that I can better judge the extent of the infection. Severe cases can kill fish, but minor cases often just go away on their own.

Is the naso doing well otherwise? I'm getting a LOT of reports of blonde nasos dying a few weeks after importation, with no real symptoms. I suspect it is due to handling/shipping issues, but I'm urging people to carefully consider buying this species.....

@Jay Hemdal @vetteguy53081 Are the pictures clear enough now? What do you suggest i do? Catching this will be a hard job as it is a big tank. But yes he is very active and seems to be doing well so far.

 

[lakvinu]

Here are some more images if that will help. I've got Radion 3 x XR 30G5 Blues and 2 x Pros. So i put the Warm White only on the Pros but the Blue dont really have a white option, they do have cool white but it looks a bit wierd, so i kept the normal spectrum i run on the Blues and put warm white only for the pros when i took the pics. So this is the best white i could do .

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Here are some more images if that will help. I've got Radion 3 x XR 30G5 Blues and 2 x Pros. So i put the Warm White only on the Pros but the Blue dont really have a white option, they do have cool white but it looks a bit wierd, so i kept the normal spectrum i run on the Blues and put warm white only for the pros when i took the pics. So this is the best white i could do .

Yes, that is the tang turbellarian worm. You won’t be able to treat it in your display, but as I mentioned, this disease can die out on its own.

 

[lakvinu]

Yes, that is the tang turbellarian worm. You won’t be able to treat it in your display, but as I mentioned, this disease can die out on its own.

@Jay Hemdal thanks for your reply. From the images, how severe does this look to you? Is it at a life threatening level do you think? How long do you think it would take for it to die out? He is still eating very often and so far seems to be doing well

 

[Jay Hemdal]

@Jay Hemdal thanks for your reply. From the images, how severe does this look to you? Is it at a life threatening level do you think? How long do you think it would take for it to die out? He is still eating very often and so far seems to be doing well

It is a moderate infection. It won’t be fatal unless the number of spots increases a bit. Just try to watch their relative numbers.

You can try treating with prazipro, I don’t think you’ll see any benefit, but since this fish wasn’t quarantined, it will help if the fish also has flukes.

 

[lakvinu]

It is a moderate infection. It won’t be fatal unless the number of spots increases a bit. Just try to watch their relative numbers.

You can try treating with prazipro, I don’t think you’ll see any benefit, but since this fish wasn’t quarantined, it will help if the fish also has flukes.

@Jay Hemdal I've ordered some API General Cure and plan to mix it with the fish food instead of putting it directly. Do you think that'll be fine? I have a 2000 Litre tank inc sump, so i would need to buy a lot of packets otherwise?

 

[Jay Hemdal]

I do not think that oral medication with praziquantel is going to work, but if you want to try that, you'll need to read this:

Proper Dosing of Medicated Foods

Proper Dosing of Medicated Foods Jay Hemdal c. 2020 Oral medications are an excellent way to target internal diseases of fishes. Marine fish absorb aquarium water, so in certain cases, they “drink” enough medication from the water to effect a cure. However, freshwater fish actively export...

www.reef2reef.com

 

[lakvinu]

@Jay Hemdal Hi just have a qq, firstly the naso is still doing perfectly fine, eating and acting as normal. The spots are still there tho. So how long do you think it will be there and will it be indefinetly? Secondly, i have this great deal on a blue and a purple tang and dont want to let it go, do you think adding them to the tank is fine with the naso having the black spots?

 

[Jay Hemdal]

@Jay Hemdal Hi just have a qq, firstly the naso is still doing perfectly fine, eating and acting as normal. The spots are still there tho. So how long do you think it will be there and will it be indefinetly? Secondly, i have this great deal on a blue and a purple tang and dont want to let it go, do you think adding them to the tank is fine with the naso having the black spots?

Turbellarian infections are long-lived, so the naso still showing spots is expected. This disease is contagious to other fish, especially tangs, so I would avoid mixing new fish with this one.