Billy's Stichodactyla Gigantea Thread

[D-Nak]

One more thing. When using mugs, I suggest that you turn them upside down. This allows the gig to attach to the bottom of the mug (now upright), but provides ample circulation to remove any detritus and waste that can collect around the foot. For some reason, acclimating gigs slough off tissue at the base of the foot. I'm not sure what it is, but it's almost like it's shedding skin like a reptile does (but obviously that's not what it is). Having the foot on the bottom of the mugs also allows for easy removal.

 

[billysprout]

Just read the thread. A few comments:

1. In my experience, just treating with Cipro can cause bleaching.
   
   
2. Bleaching happens because the zooxanthellae within the gig has died. In some of the photos above you can see the dead zoox (looks like brown poop shaped like pellets or little specks, but really is dead zoox. Poop is typically the color of the food the anemone ingested or is stringy but quickly dissipates in strong flow).
   
   
3. Bleaching isn't a death sentence, as long as the zoox within the gig can recover to a population that can sustain the nutritional needs of the gig, and you are feeding it while this process is happening. Just make sure that you're not trying to feed solid foods (mysis, pellets, raw fish) when it is still deflating. The deflation process is a way for the anemone to purge the contaminant/pathogen, and feeding it big meals only impedes this process. There is a delicate balance between feeding so that the gig gets the nutrition it needs but not feeding too much where it uses too much energy and is not able to recover. This is where amino acids become important because the gig doesn't have to digest any solid food.
   
   
4. Lastly, IME multiple gigs in the same tank typically don't do well. I've found that one tends to become the "dominant" anemone, largest in size, and the others shrink down in size. I've tried to mitigate this by not actively feeding the "dominant" gig and other feeding the others in hopes of them getting larger--but they don't. Running a lot of carbon as well as a UV sterilizer might help, as well as having the largest water volume possible. Take photos--the gigs SLOWLY dwindle--and you may not notice it until you look back at photos to see how big the gigs used to be.

Thank you for the intel, D!

1) Should I remove cipro from my abx blend? I see better results from Amox anyways

2) Oh wow, I had it backwards. Thank you! I thought those were healthy poops but it seems like this major bleaching wasn't as abrupt as I thought.

3) Do you have a preferred amino acid blend for soft-feeding your gigs? Currently using acroPower but I feel like it's very dilute for the sake of being shelf-stable. Definitely on the same page that the sick bois don't get fed solid foods.

4) That's happening to Ali's two gigs right now I think. Have you ever visited his shop? His blue/purple isn't growing quite as fast as the green.

One more thing. When using mugs, I suggest that you turn them upside down. This allows the gig to attach to the bottom of the mug (now upright), but provides ample circulation to remove any detritus and waste that can collect around the foot. For some reason, acclimating gigs slough off tissue at the base of the foot. I'm not sure what it is, but it's almost like it's shedding skin like a reptile does (but obviously that's not what it is). Having the foot on the bottom of the mugs also allows for easy removal.

Genius, thank you!

 

[Hot2na]

When using mugs, I suggest that you turn them upside down.

I don't use Mugs,Upside down Plates, or Ceramic tiles.. Just small pieces of rock for them to attach to and hold onto during treatment..much easier to transfer to the DT , and doesn't look Ridiculous while you're waiting on it to detach and find a rock.
Even bare bottom works in the treatment tank -if U know how to remove them properly ..

 

[billysprout]

Just noticed an error in my methodology: I use a full dose of antibiotics (scaled for 5 gallons of water volume) every night, even though I only replace 50-60% of the water each wc.

I occasionally do 100% water changes (eg if i catch a deflate) but at multiple points there was a full 2-3 extra doses worth of antibiotics (or degraded antibiotics, not sure if Amox and Erythro degrade in light like Cipro does) swimming around in the nem's water. oopsies

 

[D-Nak]

Thank you for the intel, D!

1) Should I remove cipro from my abx blend? I see better results from Amox anyways

2) Oh wow, I had it backwards. Thank you! I thought those were healthy poops but it seems like this major bleaching wasn't as abrupt as I thought.

3) Do you have a preferred amino acid blend for soft-feeding your gigs? Currently using acroPower but I feel like it's very dilute for the sake of being shelf-stable. Definitely on the same page that the sick bois don't get fed solid foods.

4) That's happening to Ali's two gigs right now I think. Have you ever visited his shop? His blue/purple isn't growing quite as fast as the green.

Genius, thank you!

1. No need to remove Cipro, I'm just pointing out that the gig may bleach because of it, and isn't a cause for concern. It's more important that the pathogen is removed/killed by the antibiotics. I've never had a gig die from not being able to replenish its zoox population.
   
   
2. There is usually a direct correlation between the brown poop and bleaching, since dead zoox is expelled as the brown poop, the expectation is that the gig will bleach. In a way you could view it as healthy poops because the gig is able to expel it. The problem occurs with gigs that are NOT able to expel it, and the pathogen multiplies and eventually kills the gig.
   
   
3. I think any liquid amino acid should be fine. I use Brightwell CoralAmino.
   
   
4. I have not visited his shop, but it's definitely on my list. The next time I'm in SoCal, I'm there! There is actually a pair of gigs at the CA Academy of Sciences that's doing very well--both at least 24" in diameter--and they live right next to each other. I think the trick to success for those two is water volume--about 200,000 gallons.
   

 

[D-Nak]

Here’s a photo of the pair…

 

[billysprout]

Here’s a photo of the pair…

Gorgeous! Thanks again for the advice. A bleached gig is also another canvas for some mad scientist transplanting… can’t complain!

 

[Hot2na]

Just noticed an error in my methodology: I use a full dose of antibiotics (scaled for 5 gallons of water volume) every night, even though I only replace 50-60% of the water each wc.

No worries there..I dose FULL strength regardless of actual water volume ..ie: 20 gal tank gets 1 500 mg cipro and equivalent dose of amox/20 gal... and I rarely if ever change 100% ..usually 50 pct ... everybody does things differently. I'm just sharing what I do and what works for me..

 

[billysprout]

Quick update: Gig 4 is still alive but almost fully bleached.

Its mouth is closed most of the time now, so hopefully we’re almost done with this marathon…

It still expels some goop every night but im not sure if it’s zoox or just waste. See first pic.

My erythromycin is taking forever to ship so hopefully Cipro and amox are enough to do the job…

 

[Hot2na]

hopefully Cipro and amox are enough to do the job…

I have a feeling they will , provided you got the dosage and duration right...

 

[Doctorgori]

appreciate the thoughtful/ comprehensive write up….
what is the reason for salinity @ 30 ppt?

 

[D-Nak]

Quick update: Gig 4 is still alive but almost fully bleached.

Its mouth is closed most of the time now, so hopefully we’re almost done with this marathon…

It still expels some goop every night but im not sure if it’s zoox or just waste. See first pic.

My erythromycin is taking forever to ship so hopefully Cipro and amox are enough to do the job…

Did you actually see it expel what's in the photo to the right? It looks a lot like what typically sloughs off of the foot during acclimation.

Also, if you're not feeding it, it shouldn't expel anything, unless it is dead zoox. This can happen for a couple of weeks after treatment.

 

[billysprout]

Did you actually see it expel what's in the photo to the right? It looks a lot like what typically sloughs off of the foot during acclimation.

Also, if you're not feeding it, it shouldn't expel anything, unless it is dead zoox. This can happen for a couple of weeks after treatment.

Does dosing amino acids count as feeding? I didn't see it expel that matter, via deflation or otherwise, but it seemed to be a mix of shed foot mucus (lol), dense pellets that looked like dead zoox, and white grains that I assume is undissolved medication.

I keep spooking myself out of detaching the nem and re-attaching to a clean, inverted bowl, but that's now a crucial step for identifying and dislodging whatever it's been expelling.. I will do that tonight and leave the powerhead/UV sterilizer off for a few days to avoid a sous vide situation.

appreciate the thoughtful/ comprehensive write up….
what is the reason for salinity @ 30 ppt?

Thank you! 1.023 is my minimum safe level for salinity. I've found that my reefs in particular never go down in salinity, only up. So I keep it at the floor (or near it, i think i've mixed water at 1.021 and been fine) to give myself wiggle room if/when i forget to top off.

 

[Hot2na]

Thank you! 1.023 is my minimum safe level for salinity

You know many years ago ...Tom Frakes of instant ocean fame used to say -the salinity of the ocean worldwide averages 1.023 .... I have used that number ever since ...I'm guessing some greedy salt mfr came up with 1.026...not for me !

 

[billysprout]

You know many years ago ...Tom Frakes of instant ocean fame used to say -the salinity of the ocean worldwide averages 1.023 .... I have used that number ever since ...I'm guessing some greedy salt mfr came up with 1.026...not for me !

when I was reefing at 1.026 I always felt like I was driving without a seatbelt. So many corals just straight up die at 1.027 (esp birdsnest)

 

[billysprout]

Quick update! Gig 4 stopped bleaching and was stable for 7 days of post-symptomatic treatment, so it’s graduating to my sump for some stronger light and actual flow!


Gig 2 is doing great, very foldy and growing quickly.

Gig 3 is deteriorating slowly after its contact with 2, i will attempt to do a zoox transplant at some point this week and move it to a hospital tank to cut down on whatever pressures it’s receiving from 2.

 

[billysprout]

3) Do you have a preferred amino acid blend for soft-feeding your gigs? Currently using acroPower but I feel like it's very dilute for the sake of being shelf-stable. Definitely on the same page that the sick bois don't get fed solid foods.

Quick update: broke my own rule and fed the recovering green gig some thawed squid. It struggled to ingest it and then ejected it a few hours later. It then deflated 10% and struggled to re-inflate. Poor guy seems healthy now; no signs of reinfection, so it was hopefully just tired from the digestion effort.

The bleached gig continues to decline, and I've had no luck finding a potential tentacle donor for a zoox transplant. Anyone in the LA area that can spare a cool-colored noodle or two? ^_^

 

[garygb]

The red sea, where a lot of species of anemones originate (not S. gigantea), the ppt is 41 (sg 1.038). But full strength sea water is 34.5ppt, sg 1.0258. Long run, I believe for most anemones to be successful, they need full strength sea water.

 

[billysprout]

Gig 2 is finally showing off its GFP, now that I'm less paranoid about burning it with blue light! Pain in the butt to show on camera, though.

The red sea, where a lot of species of anemones originate (not S. gigantea), the ppt is 41 (sg 1.038). But full strength sea water is 34.5ppt, sg 1.0258. Long run, I believe for most anemones to be successful, they need full strength sea water.

i had no idea the red sea salinity was so high! Mags are the only carpet endemic to that area, right?

 

[garygb]

Gig 2 is finally showing off its GFP, now that I'm less paranoid about burning it with blue light! Pain in the butt to show on camera, though.

i had no idea the red sea salinity was so high! Mags are the only carpet endemic to that area, right?

Host anemone species found in the Red Sea: Heteractis crispa, H. magnifica, H. aurora, E. quadricolor, S. mertensii and S. haddoni.