Bayer Formulations

[drtechno]

For those of you researching Bayer coral dips, I just want to make sure this information is out there. I started using Bayer dip myself, and learned some hard lessons. Right now, I have both Bayer formulas - the "original" 2 part formula and the "new" one ingredient formula.

Last year, after setting up my tank, I researched and started using Bayer to dip my SPS and LPS. I started with the new formulation simply because I *thought* I read on R2R that it was an acceptable substitute. I was so very wrong.

After using the prescribed dips, (~80cc / liter for 10-15 mins) I had experienced approximately 75-80% acro mortality in my first two round of dips. Many died in the first day or two after dipping, and others faded in the following couple of days. However, I had some survive (montis). I attributed this loss to other things since these were the first frags I tried to dip and quarantine. Was my dip routine wrong? Was this shipping stress? Did I not drip acclimate? Was my QT flow and lighting that far wrong? All of these questions went through my head.

I began to change my QT equipment, upgraded lighting, drip acclimated slower, eliminate the peroxide part of the dip. Still failure on a couple more rounds.

What was really bothering me, is that my LPS were making it through the Bayer and LPS dips just fine. No losses at all.

I decided, out of curiosity, what would happen if I tried to find and use the original 2-part formulation of Bayer. I doubted it would make a difference. So I had my in-laws bring some up from Virginia (can't be shipped to my state) and I dipped two green slimer frags from the same supplier, at two different concentrations (the higher concentration still being ~80cc/liter). To my surprise, both survived with "flying colors". The difference was night and day. I then repeated with an actual larger SPS order with the exact same result - no acro losses from the dip, even at the high concentrations.

As I mentioned above, almost NONE of my LPS seemed affected by the either Bayer dip (?weird).

One of the things I assumed, and some people say, is that one of the ingredients is the same between the two formulations and the other ingredient was dropped. That is NOT true. B-Cyfluthrin is NOT the same as Cyfluthrin. There is indeed a difference. And I am assuming it is this difference that is the problem with the new formula.

Here are the two bottles.. NO and YES. You can identify them by their ingredients (original safe formula has two ingredients and is labeled 2 way formula).

Now, I am not sure if some people have had some level of success with the new formula, maybe it was with LPS (mine didn't seem to mind it), but it very clearly trashed my acros. Thankfully these were mostly 'tester' frags that I was getting to see if my dipping was correct, but the difference was night and day.

Anyway, I hope this helps someone.

I understand many people do not dip in Bayer but this is simply some educational material for those that choose that route.

 

[AydenLincoln]

Never in a million years would I say, “Hey insecticide for my garden would make a perfect coral dip.” LIKE WHO THOUGHT OF THIS? It seems like a horrible idea and it’s such a strong chemical I wouldn’t want to mix it inside. Just my opinion. Coral dip all the way not this.

 

[Miami Reef]

Never in a million years would I say, “Hey insecticide for my garden

Reefing is similar to gardening. We are growing (mostly) photosynthetic organisms that are susceptible to parasites.

Corals don’t have an advanced nervous system as the insects and arachnids Imidacloprid was designed to kill.

It effectively kills the pests while leaving the corals unharmed.

If you handle safely, use proper dosages, and rinse the coral afterwards, there should be no issues.

 

[Uncle99]

Banned in Canada.
Careful with that stuff.

 

[Miami Reef]

Banned in Canada.
Careful with that stuff.

Everything is banned in Canada. lol

 

[Uncle99]

Everything is banned in Canada. lol

True.
Unfortunately eliminates the treatment side of this hobby.
Sometimes good thing, sometimes not.

 

[drtechno]

Yea, lets not use this thread to re-hash the Bayer good vs evil argument. Its been done to death already in other threads. The topic is the formulations and advising reefers on the proper formula to use if they so choose, and clearing up any misconceptions on the belief that the ingredients are somehow similar.

FWIW, just because something is banned doesn't mean it's because its toxic. Some things are simply banned because of their effect on other things such as honeybees, which last I checked, aren't present in my fishroom or hazmat barrel.

 

[KStatefan]

Never in a million years would I say, “Hey insecticide for my garden would make a perfect coral dip.” LIKE WHO THOUGHT OF THIS? It seems like a horrible idea and it’s such a strong chemical I wouldn’t want to mix it inside. Just my opinion. Coral dip all the way not this.

It has been used for quite awhile not sure where it started.

 

[Uncle99]

Yea, lets not use this thread to re-hash the Bayer good vs evil argument. Its been done to death already in other threads. The topic is the formulations and advising reefers on the proper formula to use if they so choose, and clearing up any misconceptions on the belief that the ingredients are somehow similar.

FWIW, just because something is banned doesn't mean it's because its toxic. Some things are simply banned because of their effect on other things such as honeybees, which last I checked, aren't present in my fishroom or hazmat barrel.

Not good or bad, many say it’s the only thing that treats red bug and eggs.

Just must respect it, glasses, gloves, respirator things some don’t do.

Let’s be safe!

 

[billyocean]

Could just use portassium chloride (kcl) at 2 tablespoons per gallon and call it a day.

 

[drtechno]

Could just use portassium chloride (kcl) at 2 tablespoons per gallon and call it a day.

Ya I doing both

Bayer going into QT. Then after 60 days, KCl coming out and into DT (since residual is harmless).

But that’s just me

 

[Cell]

Never in a million years would I say, “Hey insecticide for my garden would make a perfect coral dip.” LIKE WHO THOUGHT OF THIS? It seems like a horrible idea and it’s such a strong chemical I wouldn’t want to mix it inside. Just my opinion. Coral dip all the way not this.

Weren't you railing on the widely used and vetted CoralRx coral dip in a different thread? So CoralRx is bad and Bayer is also bad?

 

[billyocean]

Weren't you railing on the widely used and vetted CoralRx coral dip in a different thread? So CoralRx is bad and Bayer is also bad?

I have found coralRX to be harsher on acros for after delivery dip. If the acro is placed in a qt after kcl or just nothing to let it settle in..perhaps it isn't as harsh. Other coral seems to be just fine with it. I'm no scientist with data on it..just notice the survival rate isn't as good everytime with rx vs kcl on new delivered frags

 

[GlassMunky]

I have found coralRX to be harsher on acros for after delivery dip. If the acro is placed in a qt after kcl or just nothing to let it settle in..perhaps it isn't as harsh. Other coral seems to be just fine with it. I'm no scientist with data on it..just notice the survival rate isn't as good everytime with rx vs kcl on new delivered frags

no, this was her dipping a torch she just bought, and there was still a bristle worm on there that she didnt want to pull off it, so she made a thread calling the dip bad and ineffective and then tried to sell the torch. Just kind of ironic that shes now here claiming this is also bad because shes never heard of it or read about it so it must be because "why would you use it?"

 

[GlassMunky]

Never in a million years would I say, “Hey insecticide for my garden would make a perfect coral dip.” LIKE WHO THOUGHT OF THIS? It seems like a horrible idea and it’s such a strong chemical I wouldn’t want to mix it inside. Just my opinion. Coral dip all the way not this.

Bayer has been used as a very effective coral dip, especially for Acropora, for well over a decade now, and is well documented in countless places online. take some time and read up. Im not going to go into the whole is using insecticides bad or good, but its super effective at Acro pests, sometimes the only one that works.

 

[billyocean]

no, this was her dipping a torch she just bought, and there was still a bristle worm on there that she didnt want to pull off it, so she made a thread calling the dip bad and ineffective and then tried to sell the torch. Just kind of ironic that shes now here claiming this is also bad because shes never heard of it or read about it so it must be because "why would you use it?"

Gotcha!

 

[AydenLincoln]

Weren't you railing on the widely used and vetted CoralRx coral dip in a different thread? So CoralRx is bad and Bayer is also bad?

To be clear I definitely got a bad batch of that dip. I personally will use my Koral MD Pro which has never failed me. But my point was Bayer isn’t coral dip and never was. It’s just very odd and strange that whoever thought it would make a great dip.

 

[AydenLincoln]

no, this was her dipping a torch she just bought, and there was still a bristle worm on there that she didnt want to pull off it, so she made a thread calling the dip bad and ineffective and then tried to sell the torch. Just kind of ironic that shes now here claiming this is also bad because shes never heard of it or read about it so it must be because "why would you use it?"

I am aware of the amount of people who use it. But it was never meant to be used as that and let alone inside a building. So the fact that it is used for something as delicate as corals is strange to me. And I definitely did get a bad batch. But everyone’s experiences (mainly being me) will affect the view/opinions on a product differently.

 

[GlassMunky]

To be clear I definitely got a bad batch of that dip. I personally will use my Koral MD Pro which has never failed me. But my point was Bayer isn’t coral dip and never was.

sure it was never sold as one, but it works as one a lot better than pretty much every marketed one out there... just because you dont like it doesnt mean it doesnt work.
And just because it wasnt meant for them doesnt really have any bearing; So what. If it works, it works. If you dont like it, dont use it. And, the inside thing is again, kind fo null an moot, just use goggle and gloves and youre fine.
Personally i dont think you got a bad batch, those dips are just weak and ineffective IME. its usually just tea tree oil or some other plant oil in a small amount used to stun things.
Bayer straight up kills anything with a nervous system.
Most Acro keepers swear by the stuff.

Every single coral in this tank was dipped in Bayer and this pic is from 2014

 

[Reefering1]

To be clear I definitely got a bad batch of that dip. I personally will use my Koral MD Pro which has never failed me. But my point was Bayer isn’t coral dip and never was. It’s just very odd and strange that whoever thought it would make a great dip.

But in reality, if you think about it, everything we put in our tanks is some poisonous/dangerous chemical that (i) never conceived would be appropriate to use in such a "delicate" ecosystem(reef tank). Why would something to kill certain "bugs" be any different? And in all fairness, my first interpretation to your initial post seemed to be more of surprise that such poison would be appropriate, as was mine. But from what I know Bayer was the original/ most effective dip. It became mostly unavailable and everything else was(is) next best for Acro bugs,