Bacterial attack on acropora?

[Butcher333]

I don't subscribe to the bacterial theory much. We all have a mix of them in various proportions. If I throw some dead/dying acro colony in my tank, my Vibrio population will increase as I added compromised coral flesh which is its preferred food source. The vibrio is an effect, not a cause. Sure, I have dipped stuff in Lugols solution a hundred times, just as we all have. Never seemed to change the course of anything for me.

The last time I had base STN and could not find a proximate explanation, I was advised to hit the tank with Interceptor. Traditional dips of the affected colonies & frags never revealed anything, but more and more pieces were showing this very slow base STN so I went for it. Things did turn around after that. Of course I cannot prove anything as there was no control sample set aside, but I would do it again if I had base STN show up again.

So what are you implying caused your STN? Didn’t scientists confirm bacteria as the cause as well and resolve it with amoxicillin? I’m confused. I had no bugs, or worms etc..

 

[jda]

STN is a result of your corals not having enough energy, or something, to live and the tissue recedes as a result. Bacteria does not cause it since it does not happen in the same tanks with the same bacteria when stuff is healthier. Bacteria might settle in to the area after the tissue leaves.

I imagine that my tank is full of bacteria and I have no STN. If it was some sort of specific strain, I don't know how a broad anti like amox would kill it and not others.

Are you sure that this is not a vendor trying to sell you a snake-oil type product?

 

[ScottB]

So what are you implying caused your STN? Didn’t scientists confirm bacteria as the cause as well and resolve it with amoxicillin? I’m confused. I had no bugs, or worms etc..

Sorry, I didn't clearly state that. Given that the symptoms resolved after treating for white bugs, I believe it was white bugs.

The stuff I have read regarding STN and vibrio never seemed conclusive about them being a cause or simply a bacterial cleanup crew. If you have links to any studies I welcome them.

 

[Butcher333]

Sorry, I didn't clearly state that. Given that the symptoms resolved after treating for white bugs, I believe it was white bugs.

The stuff I have read regarding STN and vibrio never seemed conclusive about them being a cause or simply a bacterial cleanup crew. If you have links to any studies I welcome them.

https://www.newscientist.com/articl...uspects-identified-in-caribbean-coral-deaths/

There is information all over about bacteria causing STN. Even vibrio. I’m only spending tons of time reading about bacteria and parasites right now.

Increased N seems to be more detrimental to SPS and reefs than global warming as people would keep stating. I most recently read.
I like white pages and scientific studies combined with back searching on Reef2Reef. I’m finding myself confused a lot. I wish there was more science fact than speculation.
I did just buy a microscope too, to have a look at my Micro-algae cultures and see what kind of ciliate and other life my tank has and see if I can recognize patterns here just as we all do with visible cues.

I don’t want to try to have a beautiful reef tank and just accept that sometimes you lose everything or have crashes. I want to be intentionally successful. LOL

 

[jda]

You don't have to accept that sometimes you lose everything - in no way does that need to happen. Diverse system with real live rock (sand will help too, but if you want more work, you can do it without), parameters that are stable near NSW levels being low, but not too low, feed your fish a lot, export a lot and have high quality lighting in good quality. That will take care of it. Too many people try and get cute with machines that fail, dry/dead rock that takes years and years to be stable and then cut spectrum off of light and run too blue.

Your white papers might not matter much unless they studied captive reef systems. Ocean is not the same. Neither are frag and fish farms in the Pacific. I would look to what a well seasoned reefer does more than a white paper - if you need somebody to be like, go to ReefCentral and find Copps thread in the SPS forum.

What some people need to accept is that if you cut corners or use chemicals to save time, bet on the exception instead of the rule, skimp on equipment, buy things to take your eyes and hands off of your tank (where you can learn and see things that a robot cannot) or even make some bad livestock or husbandry choices, then you might lose some thing. None of this has to happen, though.

 

[ScottB]

I just lost most of a small colony last night that is now chopped and fragged. The other 5 pieces of it are fine. I know all my numbers and even have a recent ICP so, while I am not happy about it, I am not reacting and changing the overall system. I will run an extra hour of GAC and do a water change tomorrow.

So if I suspected this was bacteria driven, what would I do?

 

[Butcher333]

You don't have to accept that sometimes you lose everything - in no way does that need to happen. Diverse system with real live rock (sand will help too, but if you want more work, you can do it without), parameters that are stable near NSW levels being low, but not too low, feed your fish a lot, export a lot and have high quality lighting in good quality. That will take care of it. Too many people try and get cute with machines that fail, dry/dead rock that takes years and years to be stable and then cut spectrum off of light and run too blue.

Your white papers might not matter much unless they studied captive reef systems. Ocean is not the same. Neither are frag and fish farms in the Pacific. I would look to what a well seasoned reefer does more than a white paper - if you need somebody to be like, go to ReefCentral and find Copps thread in the SPS forum.

What some people need to accept is that if you cut corners or use chemicals to save time, bet on the exception instead of the rule, skimp on equipment, buy things to take your eyes and hands off of your tank (where you can learn and see things that a robot cannot) or even make some bad livestock or husbandry choices, then you might lose some thing. None of this has to happen, though.

I did buy live rock. I have radium lighting. 400w on 36x36 tank. Anyways. I am not trying to start a feud.
I think what I want to get away from is a sewer that I'm trying to keep SPS coral alive in.

 

[ScottB]

I did buy live rock. I have radium lighting. 400w on 36x36 tank. Anyways. I am not trying to start a feud.
I think what I want to get away from is a sewer that I'm trying to keep SPS coral alive in.

Live rock is a great head start for an SPS system. Yes we have all seen some people with successful reefs and a dead rock start, but golly, that is a lot of threading the needle.

I chuckled at the sewer analogy, but you are actually right. It is a sewage SYSTEM. A good system can process a lot of waste. Different reefers run with different levels of measured residual nutrients, but all the successful reefers I follow have good sewer systems that process ridiculous amounts of fish waste.

 

[reef80]

Just sharing for what it’s worth.

I had the same problem and finally realize it was my water source. The city was dumping high volumes of chloramines during the summer as regular maintenance and flushing out the water system. It was burning through my membrane and filters rather quickly. I changed them all out and added a .02 sediment prefilter along with an additional resin housing and did two massive water changes within 2 weeks apart and it resolved itself. Best of luck as I knn no is the feeling.

 

[reef80]

Just sharing for what it’s worth.

I had the same problem and finally realize it was my water source. The city was dumping high volumes of chloramines during the summer as regular maintenance and flushing out the water system. It was burning through my membrane and filters rather quickly. I changed them all out and added a .02 sediment prefilter along with an additional resin housing and did two massive water changes within 2 weeks apart and it resolved itself. Best of luck as I knn no is the feeling.