Automation and controller

[vetteguy53081]

I started this hobby a year ago Apex-less. Then a local reefer sold me and Apex EL. Now that i have one IDK how i would do this hobby with out it. Im not as heavilly invested in apex like Rich Ross but i do have a lot of there accessories.

Now i love my apex and will say the likes out weigh the dislikes. What I've also found is the way i program my Apex is wrong according to the Apex gurus but its working just fine.

Now the dislikes:

Programing it should be easier. The manual is over 100 pages long. Like make a dumb down version for the me and the idiots in the back.

LLS is so hard to calibrate. Why is the measurements off by an inch? and why cant it be turned on and it just work properly?

EB832 is not a surge protector. LIKE WHY? Why wouldn't you add this feature????

The failures you hear about are a lot and the fact aftermarket guys are fixing these things better than Neptune can is laughable. I will not buy them new as the new prices are to high for what your getting. I just recently bought another eb832 and another Apex El brain with paired eb832 as a back up.

For the cost and capabilities, can be a little more user friendly and Surge is a great point. You would cringe if you saw the inner guts of unit- Theres nothing there and how much? I still like mine though

 

[doubleshot00]

For the cost and capabilities, can be a little more user friendly and Surge is a great point. You would cringe if you saw the inner guts of unit- Theres nothing there and how much? I still like mine though

They just feel Chinesism in quality.

 

[cwerner]

I currently just purchased into the Coralvue Hydros ecosystem. Before that I had a Inkbird Heater controller, but that's about it for automation besides the lights. I suppose my Current USA bluetooth was technically a controller, and I could monitor temperature, lights, and flow through the app.

When I was deciding what did it for me was the fact that the Hydros system has more redundancy in place with the Collective system instead of depending on one centralized controller for everything and if that goes down EVERYTHING is down.

I currently have everything purchased to perform daily automatic water changes though that hasn't been implemented. I'm currently doing Temperature control, flow control (IceCap Gyre 2k with WaveEngine), control my algae scrubber lights, and my Return Pump via the XP8 power bar. I can monitor my temp, ph, water levels, and power usage all from the cloud-based app.

I thought about going with the Reef-Pi for a while since I work in Healthcare IT and definitely have the skills to setup a really robust system, but at the end of the day after getting home from work the last thing I want to do is be fuddling about with custom soldering and stuff. Frankly, I took additional schooling so I WOULDN'T have to do that stuff, so it's nice to have a system that just works without me having to custom manufacture and program everything.

I still don't 100% trust the redundancy, and have a computer UPS hooked up to my controllers and router so that nothing goes down right away if we lose power and I should theoretically have time to shut everything down nicely and keep my pumps running during an outage.

 

[Lbrdsoxfan]

If you want partial automation, then I'd recommend setting things up on kasa power strip. Extremely easy and reliable. You won't have parameter monitoring, which sounds nice in theory. But if you're busy like me, then I find continuous monitoring probes additional maintenance and work.

The controllers are nice until the one catastrophic failure event negatively impacts your reef.

And the kasa strips work until they relays lock on or off. BTDT. I suffered a tank crash over a relay failing in an off state for the main pump outlet while traveling for work. If it had an alert, I could of got someone to just plug the pump in another outlet. Crummy part is that it wasnt a true power loss, so no emergency bubbler thus the fish didnt even get a real chance. Powerheads were there and pointed to the surface but still wasnt enough agitation as the return pump did the heavy lifting for that.

I will admit they were/are a good bang for the buck as I still use them for the non critical tasking but the lack of notification @ the time that the pump was off for any real length of time soured me huge as the strip is still a potential single point of failure.

At least the aquarium controllers will nag me if I program it about an outlet being in an off state or lack of wattage/amperage for too long.

 

[Borat]

I have a full 100% DIY automation. I also work in IT - but I do take great pleasure and pride in fiddling about with custom soldering and stuff.

Because most of my aquarium devices are DIYd - I can control what I want to be automated.

Currently the main tank controller has:
4x relay-controlled power sockets: 2 sockets are for heaters, 1 socket for peristaltic pump and 1 socket spare
3x PH probes, 2 for the calcium reactor primary and secondary chambers and 1x for tank monitoring
12v calcium reactor solenoid DC output, this is switched on/off depending on PH probes reponse
2x leak probes
2x temp probes, these then control heaters attached to relay sockets
The controller sends me statistics every 15 minutes: specifically temperature, PH and whether any of the heaters are on or off and last time that it switched the CaRx solenoid on/off, it will also send me other notifications is something unusual is detected (e.g. heater failure or leak detected)

It's been a while since I built the tank controller, I now want to redesign it to add more features, e.g. have more PSU options, maybe provide constant current output to my sump led lights (DIYeed) and also maybe to have multiple 12v ports - so I could connect all other devices to a single point of contact, rather than having a 12v DC PSU separate for each device.. I also want to add more AC power sockets - again to make it easier to connect other equipment.


There is an alkalinity device that I DIY'd: it measures Alk 4 times a day at predetermined interval and send me titration results via email.

There is a DIY peristaltic pump that I can customise - e.g. how much to dose during the day versus during the night time.

There is a DIY doser - which is... just a doser. It also sends me statistics once a day via email, mainly to inform me about reagents usage. It will send me "special emails" with Donald Trump style ALL CAPS subject line if any reagents start to run low.

There is a DIY led fixture - which is.. just a light.. I programmed certain schedule of lights intensity ramp up/down long time and and it's been running like an atomic clock ever since. The light fixture has a display that shows me 5 temperature readings inside, current lights intensity and time. I periodically check to ensure that cooling fans haven't broken. This one is old generation device and does not have any network connectivity - so if I am away I may not be able to know if it broke down (but I will know indirectly as my Alk consumption will suddenly drop).

There is a DIY AC powerhead controller that has 4 relayed power sockets and to which I connect 4 AC pumps. I no longer need to have long cables stretching all the way to electric cabined, all pumps are connected to 2 sets of AC power connectors (both of which are interconnected) - located just next to powerheads at both tank ends. This makes disconnecting pumps for cleaning an effortless exercise. I loaded the program to switch pumps in certain random sequence long time ago - and ever since it worked like magic... I alternate random flow with directional flow - to ensure that no detritus gets trapped in display tank ever and also that no coral sits in a spot with no flow.

 

[All_talk]

I am away from my tank 5 days a week, and have been for almost 14 years, I feel a controller is the only way I have made this situation work. I have been with APEX since the original "Black Label" days, at that point they were really the only comprehensive system.

The APEX certainly has its limitations, but I think all the systems do. I agree with vetteguy, the accuracy of the salinity probe and Trident can be challenging. I have solved my salinity probe issues by calibrating to the tank water, its pretty rock solid now. The trident could be better, but its plenty good for seeing trends and I don't take action on its data alone. I am going to try calibrating it to the tank next and see if that helps lock it down some.

I think the APEX is still the best for advanced programing and I feel that is important to create safeties, redundancy and interlocks. As with any tool, it is only useful if you understand its function and limits.

I know APEX gets criticized on its cost, it is expensive, but compared to the industrial automation I deal with professionally it is pretty affordable. This is a low volume hobby, cost for this kind of stuff is always going to be high. And compared to the investment in even a modest reef aquarium I don't thank its prohibitive.

YMMV
Gary

 

[Projects with Sam]

I was going to go ReefPi but saw a used apex classic with a bunch of modules at the right price and I decided I needed a basis for comparison before I dove right into DIY. Hard enough to learn the Hobby let alone a DIY management system for it.
Anyway, I got old MP40s and tied them into the Apex WXM and until 6Months ago couldn't fathom upgrading till pump control was re-added...

I cannot imagine managing a tank without the features some of these management packages offer.

 

[BeanAnimal]

Apex:
Like: The look, the plug layout, the amount of modules and abilities to monitor levels, leaks, dose, trident and ATO control.

IMHO they are hideously ugly and the oddball form factor of each component is patently ridiculous. They are not modular, compact, uniform or of a functional form, just odd for the sake of being odd. On top if that they are not durable, robust or well designed. No thanks.

 

[BeanAnimal]

EB832 is not a surge protector. LIKE WHY? Why wouldn't you add this feature????

surge protectors use MOVs

MOVs have a limited (very limited) lifespan.

 

[NXE]

I thought about going with the Reef-Pi for a while since I work in Healthcare IT and definitely have the skills to setup a really robust system, but at the end of the day after getting home from work the last thing I want to do is be fuddling about with custom soldering and stuff. Frankly, I took additional schooling so I WOULDN'T have to do that stuff, so it's nice to have a system that just works without me having to custom manufacture and program everything.

@robsworld78 sells a great plug-and-play reef-pi controller called Robo-Tank (https://www.robo-tank.ca/) that takes away any need for soldering. All you have to do is insert the raspberry pi and install the reef-pi software. I use one on my tank and it's been great, plus no cloud or subscriptions to worry about and no crazy markups on basic electronics.

 

[BeanAnimal]

I am an electronics hobbyist, designed my own PCBs, wrote my own operating system, dosing software, lighting controller, etc. Abandoned.

Likewise, you couldn’t pay me to use a reefPi or anything that that I have to compile, bang away on a command line, install add-ins or or fiddle with. No longer my idea of fun or efficient use of time.

 

[Borat]

I am an electronics hobbyist, designed my own PCBs, wrote my own operating system, dosing software, lighting controller, etc. Abandoned.

Likewise, you couldn’t pay me to use a reefPi or anything that that I have to compile, bang away on a command line, install add-ins or or fiddle with. No longer my idea of fun or efficient use of time.

What do you use your time for? Ingesting beer at a local pub or something more interesting?
I always wonder.. judging by myself - people get lazy with age.

 

[BeanAnimal]

What do you use your time for? Ingesting beer at a local pub or something more interesting?
I always wonder.. judging by myself - people get lazy with age.

I am old.
I like beer.

BTW absolutely wonderful work on your KH titrator! I have followed with interest from day 1.

 

[Borat]

I am old.
I like beer.

BTW absolutely wonderful work on your KH titrator! I have followed with interest from day 1.

I get lazy with age (I wouldnt call myself "old" by the 50th is approaching fast), even a few years back I did so many projects! I am afraid to roll down your side one day

 

[doubleshot00]

surge protectors use MOVs

MOVs have a limited (very limited) lifespan.

Idk much about electrical work but why is the ones hooked uo to my tvs are doing just fine then? Or any electrical device.

I did add a whole home surge protector just to be safe.

 

[BeanAnimal]

I get lazy with age (I wouldnt call myself "old" by the 50th is approaching fast), even a few years back I did so many projects! I am afraid to roll down your side one day

I am only a few years older. Lazy, no… but far more particular about what I want to spend my time doing. I recently built an RO/DI controller. It was a quick fun project. No runaway scope, no off-the-shelf alternative, and no large investment in time, tools, or materials.

I built a wood fired pizza oven from the ground up. Hand bent copper flashings, slate roof, etc… all custom, expensive, time consuming, fun. Time well spent.

 

[BeanAnimal]

Idk much about electrical work but why is the ones hooked uo to my tvs are doing just fine then? Or any electrical device.

I did add a whole home surge protector just to be safe.

What makes you think they are fine?

Failed MOVs don’t show signs of failure, they just don’t shunt surges anymore…


The whole home device, depending on cost is MOVs and if more expensive also avalanche diodes. again, the MOVs have a limited life.

 

[doubleshot00]

What makes you think they are fine?

Failed MOVs don’t show signs of failure, they just don’t shunt surges anymore…

Im good with that. At least I bought the feature lol

 

[Fish Styx]

Apex FTW. Fortunately, I haven't run into issues with the accuracy of my salinity probe, though I know many have. I run the full line on my system with the exception of the Trident, and my biggest gripe is with their optical sensors. They are just garbage.

 

[Borat]

I am only a few years older. Lazy, no… but far more particular about what I want to spend my time doing. I recently built an RO/DI controller. It was a quick fun project. No runaway scope, no off-the-shelf alternative, and no large investment in time, tools, or materials.

I built a wood fired pizza oven from the ground up. Hand bent copper flashings, slate roof, etc… all custom, expensive, time consuming, fun. Time well spent.

Nice!

I haven't been completely lazy either.. Just finished my garden workshop a month ago or so.. Btw - Apple software is an piece of inferior chicken potassium.

DIY Garden Office!

If its a laser cutter for cutting and engraving, then HPC do some good units that are proving to be very reliable. We have two running at work most days. Lightburn is the better software option than the one they come with!

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