Are Captive Bred Fish More Susceptible to Diseases?

[Lionfish hunter]

Yes failed treatments do occur re-introductions do occur however there are cases where everything was followed and documented and ich has still broken out months and years after the addition and the last inhabitants were introduced. If this happens on a semi regular basis to good practitioners and reefers what makes you think BIOTA facilities are any less susceptible to these failures hence why the only way you can eliminate it is by eliminating the parent fish and having fully synthetic breeding programs with completely sterile equipment.

What is a fully synthetic breeding program…?

 

[Whiskeyboy84]

What is a fully synthetic breeding program…?

Aka test tube babies

 

[Lionfish hunter]

Aka test tube babies

Biota has velvet and ich free systems, they don’t no need to make test tube babies. They are pumping out healthy fish that are parasite free every time. Ask drreef how many cases of ich have come from biota fish. Then ask how many he has had come from wild caught. The ratio is likely tens of thousands of wild caught to 0 from biota. @Biota_Marine out of the millions of fish you have produced, have any ever had ich or velvet ?

 

[Whiskeyboy84]

Biota has velvet and ich free systems, they don’t no need to make test tube babies. They are pumping out healthy fish that are parasite free every time. Ask drreef how many cases of ich have come from biota fish. Then ask how many he has had come from wild caught. The ratio is likely tens of thousands of wild caught to 0 from biota. @Biota_Marine out of the millions of fish you have produced, have any ever had ich or velvet ?

I am sure Mr.Reef would be sued if he said he has never produced a fish that has ended up with ich, velvet, or brook. I am not denying them being symptom free when they leave their tanks to go to their forever home however there is no way to place the blame of these outbreaks solely on the end user. Sorry but that’s just facts you pay Mr. Reef for the peace of mind that you are receiving a healthy well cared for fish but with animals nothing comes with a 100% guarantee my friend.

 

[Tamberav]

I am sure Mr.Reef would be sued if he said he has never produced a fish that has ended up with ich, velvet, or brook. I am not denying them being symptom free when they leave their tanks to go to their forever home however there is no way to place the blame of these outbreaks solely on the end user. Sorry but that’s just facts you pay Mr. Reef for the peace of mind that you are receiving a healthy well cared for fish but with animals nothing comes with a 100% guarantee my friend.

It says on his website that there is no 100%

 

[Lionfish hunter]

I am sure Mr.Reef would be sued if he said he has never produced a fish that has ended up with ich, velvet, or brook. I am not denying them being symptom free when they leave their tanks to go to their forever home however there is no way to place the blame of these outbreaks solely on the end user. Sorry but that’s just facts you pay Mr. Reef for the peace of mind that you are receiving a healthy well cared for fish but with animals nothing comes with a 100% guarantee my friend.

Dude you’re wrong, good luck.

 

[Whiskeyboy84]

Dude you’re wrong, good luck.

Ok we will agree to disagree like mentioned above your savers website clearly states there are no 100% guarantees. Don’t get me wrong I think Biota is a great thing and I personally only buy Biota Fish and aquaculture corals and I quarantine all new arrivals to include CUC, i culture my own zoo’s and Phyto as well as baby brine part of this hobby and lifestyle is trying to be a good Stewart of the environment and animals we keep we just have to realize something’s aren’t completely within our grasps at the moment.

 

[Wildreefs]

Interesting point, but they definitely run parasite free tanks. If you talk to dr reef he will tell you ich in captive bred fish is basically non existent. My lfs sells captive bred fish and it is the only tank in the store with no copper because they always come clean. And biota told me their fish are clean. Every tang I have ever had(I’ve had a ton) has come with ich. Except the 5 baby biota yellow tangs, completely disease free. I don’t know the ratio of parasites to gallons of Hawaii water but it is probably hundreds of thousands of gallons for every 1 parasite. Maybe that is it? Not sure. I would imagine most fish pick up ich and velvet from other fish once in holding facilities after being captured.

Whose they? How can they be parasite free if they’re pumping in water from the wild.

as far as lfs dedicating a system to them, at the very least is the system 10 feet apart from other tanks? Can they be 10000 percent sure no net or container or water change hose doesn’t touch one tank then the other? When catching fish, do they disinfect there hands when going to the captive tank? Hand above tank with net allows run off of wet.

but if I were the lfs I wouldn’t go thru the trouble, those fish are not disease free anyhow.



and as far quoting dr fish, one only needs to look at a couple of his reviews to know whose worth picking information off of

 

[Wildreefs]

Yes failed treatments do occur re-introductions do occur however there are cases where everything was followed and documented and ich has still broken out months and years after the addition and the last inhabitants were introduced. If this happens on a semi regular basis to good practitioners and reefers what makes you think BIOTA facilities are any less susceptible to these failures hence why the only way you can eliminate it is by eliminating the parent fish and having fully synthetic breeding programs with completely sterile equipment.

Which sterile they are not. Poma from what I understand is, they are like the Tesla or bmw of the captive world, biota or Bali aqua rich is the Walmart of the captives.

 

[Wildreefs]

Ick and velvet can be erraticated. Ive done it countless times. Again, there is no debate here, it is fact. There are literally people making a living right now selling quarantined medicated fish parasite free.

Not all qt or medication is done correctly. Literally transfering fish around a few times will totally cure these things. TTM

You are so far out of touch it is not even funny. Using absolutes with disease free fish when the very vendors themselves can’t guarantee is misinformation, and the reason why I’d venture to say 90 percent of info on message boards is bogus.

 

[Whiskeyboy84]

Whose they? How can they be parasite free if they’re pumping in water from the wild.

as far as lfs dedicating a system to them, at the very least is the system 10 feet apart from other tanks? Can they be 10000 percent sure no net or container or water change hose doesn’t touch one tank then the other? When catching fish, do they disinfect there hands when going to the captive tank? Hand above tank with net allows run off of wet.

but if I were the lfs I wouldn’t go thru the trouble, those fish are not disease free anyhow.

Even after qt, biota fish absolutely suck. I asked a local guy who sells a ton of biota fish and I asked him in all honesty, how many people come back and ask for a replacement on the captive stuff after it dies, his only answer was more than he thought was possible considering how they are touted as being hardier . My biota purchase two months ago was the largest fish purchase I made at one single time, $1000, and $80 of that order remains, two rabbit fish.

and as far quoting dr fish, one only needs to look at a couple of his reviews to know whose worth picking information off of

So I have done quite a bit of research on BIOTA fish and mostly your Clowns, Anthias, and some surgeon’s do well when raised in captivity as someone with a degree in biology I feel like some of the reason they do better is simply because there has been more focus longer on these species than others plus the genetic populations diversity available allows for less inbreeding often in captive breeding fish from the same broods are interbred this reduces genetic diversity and allows for genetic defects which wouldn’t be caught readily. It’s not unlike dog or cat breeding in the sense that the more closely related the parent fish are the weaker the off spring will be and this multiplies through the generations as this breeding situation continues.

 

[Whiskeyboy84]

You are so far out of touch it is not even funny. Using absolutes with disease free fish when the very vendors themselves can’t guarantee is misinformation, and the reason why I’d venture to say 90 percent of info on message boards is bogus.

You are absolutely right many of the people on these boards are spreading information that they heard or read from some third, fourth, or so on party as if it were gospel and often times the people who started these so called facts are Joe blow LFS owner who doesn’t have any clue as to how genetics or infections work they just want to sell you on products that make their paychecks. Also a lot of these “breeders” aren’t even biologist they just got some tips and tricks or got lucky maybe went to MACNA and heard a seminar on how to run a garage aquaculture business bought a bunch of used equipment and pickle barrels and now they are experts. No different than a puppy mill. Do I think BIOtA’s have a place yes do I think we need to invest more into it to preserve these animals yes but it’s still in its infancy so there is a lot left to be desired. It’s like how they have started grafting corals neat idea gets peoples wallets out but really not helping the corals because how much of the parent colonies are destroyed in the grafting process?

 

[Lionfish hunter]

You are so far out of touch it is not even funny. Using absolutes with disease free fish when the very vendors themselves can’t guarantee is misinformation, and the reason why I’d venture to say 90 percent of info on message boards is bogus.

I must have missed the part where I said 100% of any venders fish will arrive parasite free. Probably missed that because I never said it. Of course ich will slip through eventually when a mistake is made. Why would anybody think differently? I just had an order with drreef completely screwed up to the max, I will never order from him again. I was making a point that people qt for a living to add to my argument that ich can be killed. We were arguing about wether ich can be killed. Next time you make an incredibly rude statement to somebody, better make sure you get your facts right. And since this entire argument was about wether you can rid a fish of ich, do you think proper treatment can rid a fish of ich?

 

[Lionfish hunter]

You are so far out of touch it is not even funny. Using absolutes with disease free fish when the very vendors themselves can’t guarantee is misinformation, and the reason why I’d venture to say 90 percent of info on message boards is bogus.

I must have missed the part where I said 100% of any venders fish will arrive parasite free. Probably missed that because I never said it. Of course ich will slip through eventually when a mistake is made. Why would anybody think differently? I just had an order with drreef completely screwed up to the max, I will never order from him again. I was making a point that people qt for a living to add to my argument that ich can be killed. We were arguing about wether ich can be killed. Next time you make an incredibly rude statement to somebody, better make sure you get your facts right. And since this entire argument was about wether you can rid a fish of ich, do you think proper treatment can rid a fish of ich?

 

[Lionfish hunter]

You are absolutely right many of the people on these boards are spreading information that they heard or read from some third, fourth, or so on party as if it were gospel and often times the people who started these so called facts are Joe blow LFS owner who doesn’t have any clue as to how genetics or infections work they just want to sell you on products that make their paychecks. Also a lot of these “breeders” aren’t even biologist they just got some tips and tricks or got lucky maybe went to MACNA and heard a seminar on how to run a garage aquaculture business bought a bunch of used equipment and pickle barrels and now they are experts. No different than a puppy mill. Do I think BIOtA’s have a place yes do I think we need to invest more into it to preserve these animals yes but it’s still in its infancy so there is a lot left to be desired. It’s like how they have started grafting corals neat idea gets peoples wallets out but really not helping the corals because how much of the parent colonies are destroyed in the grafting process?

I have nothing against you, but you are spreading misinformation when you say ich cannot be erraticated. I’m sorry but it is true and everybody reading this knows it.

 

[Whiskeyboy84]

Biota has velvet and ich free systems, they don’t no need to make test tube babies. They are pumping out healthy fish that are parasite free every time. Ask drreef how many cases of ich have come from biota fish. Then ask how many he has had come from wild caught. The ratio is likely tens of thousands of wild caught to 0 from biota. @Biota_Marine out of the millions of fish you have produced, have any ever had ich or velvet ?

You literally implied it right here! How else does one take the quote velvet and ich free? Also you said millions with 0 cases so again you doubled down on your stance in the same post!

 

[Lionfish hunter]

Which sterile they are not. Poma from what I understand is, they are like the Tesla or bmw of the captive world, biota or Bali aqua rich is the Walmart of the captives.

knowing biota pocketed about 600 off of me for fish that couldn’t go past a month is theft to me, my friend imports coral and those fish are about $100 to import , even at that prices I won’t touch them anymore

Did your biota order come with ich? Because that is the only relevant info to this argument.

 

[Whiskeyboy84]

I have nothing against you, but you are spreading misinformation when you say ich cannot be erraticated. I’m sorry but it is true and everybody reading this knows it.

You just again stated that ich can be erraticated so which is it? Can it be erraticated or minute traces of it can still be found but are not harmful to the animal unless they get stressed? Please clarify your stance.

 

[Lionfish hunter]

You just again stated that ich can be erraticated so which is it? Can it be erraticated or minute traces of it can still be found but are not harmful to the animal unless they get stressed? Please clarify your stance.

What? Ich can be erraticated! It is a fact, ive said it 1000 times.

 

[Whiskeyboy84]

Did your biota order come with ich? Because that is the only relevant info to this argument.

Just because any fish received from an aquaculture facility don’t have signs or symptoms of ich upon arrival is not evidence that they are ich free!