Aquaforest probiotic method

[Troylee]

Thanks Troylee, I am still learning and having trouble finding detailed information on those using similar methods. There are so many different versions, just trying to tweak mine to handle my nutrient load from my fish and feeding. Great if we can put it here or if you have some specific places that are useful, glad to go there as well. Mainly trying to figure out if that stack I used is useful or if the carbon on top hurts, any feedback.

I’m not sure about the carbon stack on top.. I run zeolites in a reactor and Randy has me guessing if it’s useful or not haha! I followed the foot steps of Sunny x and I know without a doubt it gives bacteria a nice place to cultivate as when you shake the zeolites and pump the reactor it will cloud up your tank. I have carbon in a separate reactor on my tank not mixed with the zeolites.. my nutrients stay low as my tank processes them really fast when I spike them with bacteria, aminos and phosphates to feed my corals. I myself haven’t used the aqua forest line but I know @Perry is very familiar with them. Im sure in the end its all the same stuff with a different label lol.. there’s a thread floating around and a guy put some bottled bac under a microscope and it seems zeobak was the only one alive straight out of the bottle.. from what I’m gathering is mb7 and other bottled back is spores that come alive when added to your tank but I can’t confirm nor deny that as chemistry isn’t my cup of tea haha! As for the gut loaded bacteria I referred to we have been using different bottled bacteria, mixing it with aminos and reef roids “for phosphate” and enzymes and making a culture that sits for x amount of time and then feeding the corals with it.

 

[dwhanc00]

I’m not sure about the carbon stack on top.. I run zeolites in a reactor and Randy has me guessing if it’s useful or not haha! I followed the foot steps of Sunny x and I know without a doubt it gives bacteria a nice place to cultivate as when you shake the zeolites and pump the reactor it will cloud up your tank. I have carbon in a separate reactor on my tank not mixed with the zeolites.. my nutrients stay low as my tank processes them really fast when I spike them with bacteria, aminos and phosphates to feed my corals. I myself haven’t used the aqua forest line but I know @Perry is very familiar with them. Im sure in the end its all the same stuff with a different label lol.. there’s a thread floating around and a guy put some bottled bac under a microscope and it seems zeobak was the only one alive straight out of the bottle.. from what I’m gathering is mb7 and other bottled back is spores that come alive when added to your tank but I can’t confirm nor deny that as chemistry isn’t my cup of tea haha! As for the gut loaded bacteria I referred to we have been using different bottled bacteria, mixing it with aminos and reef roids “for phosphate” and enzymes and making a culture that sits for x amount of time and then feeding the corals with it.

Not sure if you have seen chumminghamreef's video of how he feeds, I have been using a version of that. I premix my food for the week and keep it covered in the refrigerator. I use hikari frozen foods, mix of three different kinds; benepets reef powder and pellets; aminos; some of the weekly AF growth food powders; small amount of the ABEV supplements; small amount of reefroids or BRS reef chili; KZ (zeobak) and AF bacteria and some dried mysis (BRS). Obviously this is A LOT of nutrients. My balance is this heavy out approach.

I am using the AF zeo, so I do not shake mine to release the bacteria. So as Randy noted, I guess mine is simply another surface for bacteria to grow. I daily dose the AF bio f, bio s, and NP pro. I add zeobak for diversity as well.

As a side note, since Sunday my PO4 had dropped from 0.16 to 0.12 and nitrates are down to 13. So it appears to be working so far even with my heavy feeding.

 

[Troylee]

Not sure if you have seen chumminghamreef's video of how he feeds, I have been using a version of that. I premix my food for the week and keep it covered in the refrigerator. I use hikari frozen foods, mix of three different kinds; benepets reef powder and pellets; aminos; some of the weekly AF growth food powders; small amount of the ABEV supplements; small amount of reefroids or BRS reef chili; KZ (zeobak) and AF bacteria and some dried mysis (BRS). Obviously this is A LOT of nutrients. My balance is this heavy out approach.

I am using the AF zeo, so I do not shake mine to release the bacteria. So as Randy noted, I guess mine is simply another surface for bacteria to grow. I daily dose the AF bio f, bio s, and NP pro. I add zeobak for diversity as well.

As a side note, since Sunday my PO4 had dropped from 0.16 to 0.12 and nitrates are down to 13. So it appears to be working so far even with my heavy feeding.

Yeah I saw his video on Instagram… it’s all experimental and seems to work! I can dirty my tank up and over night it’s gone and numbers are normal so what ever it seems to be doing the corals are accepting it and processing it very fast! Growth is amazing also. What I use and 1 month growth.

 

[Aqualund]

This all seems very complicated and prone to error, and dependency (what if you want to take a weekend off?). It seems to me that you need a good, reliable method for breaking down NO3. I feed very heavily in my own tanks and also all of my customers tanks, but I use a Slow Sand Trickle Filter to provide a home for anaerobic bacteria to consume the Nitrates.

As the water passes through from top to bottom, the aerobic bacteria strip the water of oxygen as they turn ammonia and nitrite into nitrate...then in the oxygen depleted zones further down, the bacteria survive on stripping Oxygen from NO3.

I know it seems like Im here to hawk my products...Im definitely not. Anyone can make these with literally anything as long as it doesnt allow oxygen to the anearobic zone.

But with something like this employed, all of the guess work goes out the window and you can feed as heavily as you like...whether it be solid foods for the fishies or planktonic foods for the corals, etc.

It works very very well and I highly recommend this to address your high nitrate issues.

 

[Troylee]

This all seems very complicated and prone to error, and dependency (what if you want to take a weekend off?). It seems to me that you need a good, reliable method for breaking down NO3. I feed very heavily in my own tanks and also all of my customers tanks, but I use a Slow Sand Trickle Filter to provide a home for anaerobic bacteria to consume the Nitrates.

As the water passes through from top to bottom, the aerobic bacteria strip the water of oxygen as they turn ammonia and nitrite into nitrate...then in the oxygen depleted zones further down, the bacteria survive on stripping Oxygen from NO3.

I know it seems like Im here to hawk my products...Im definitely not. Anyone can make these with literally anything as long as it doesnt allow oxygen to the anearobic zone.

But with something like this employed, all of the guess work goes out the window and you can feed as heavily as you like...whether it be solid foods for the fishies or planktonic foods for the corals, etc.

It works very very well and I highly recommend this to address your high nitrate issues.

This isn’t a daily thing.. it’s once a week and wouldn’t hurt if you never did it again lol.. it’s just food for corals…

 

[Aqualund]

This isn’t a daily thing.. it’s once a week and wouldn’t hurt if you never did it again lol.. it’s just food for corals…

So then the rest of the week there's nothing being done to address nitrates (except adding to them)?

 

[Troylee]

So then the rest of the week there's nothing being done to address nitrates (except adding to them)?

Correct.. the bacteria population is strong enough to handle anything thrown at it! You’re starting a bacteria culture and loading it with aminos and phosphates and the corals do the filtering for the most part.. my numbers are rock solid! I can throw all sorts of aminos and 2 tsp of reef roids in my tank today and these will be my numbers tomorrow! I’ve done it a few times and stopped testing cause the tank holds them steady. I feed my tank once or twice a week.

 

[dwhanc00]

That is where I want my numbers! lol. Getting there....

 

[Aqualund]

Correct.. the bacteria population is strong enough to handle anything thrown at it! You’re starting a bacteria culture and loading it with aminos and phosphates and the corals do the filtering for the most part.. my numbers are rock solid! I can throw all sorts of aminos and 2 tsp of reef roids in my tank today and these will be my numbers tomorrow! I’ve done it a few times and stopped testing cause the tank holds them steady. I feed my tank once or twice a week.

Sorry...my original response was intended for the OP, just to clear up any confusion.

 

[dwhanc00]

This all seems very complicated and prone to error, and dependency (what if you want to take a weekend off?). It seems to me that you need a good, reliable method for breaking down NO3. I feed very heavily in my own tanks and also all of my customers tanks, but I use a Slow Sand Trickle Filter to provide a home for anaerobic bacteria to consume the Nitrates.

As the water passes through from top to bottom, the aerobic bacteria strip the water of oxygen as they turn ammonia and nitrite into nitrate...then in the oxygen depleted zones further down, the bacteria survive on stripping Oxygen from NO3.

I know it seems like Im here to hawk my products...Im definitely not. Anyone can make these with literally anything as long as it doesnt allow oxygen to the anearobic zone.

But with something like this employed, all of the guess work goes out the window and you can feed as heavily as you like...whether it be solid foods for the fishies or planktonic foods for the corals, etc.

It works very very well and I highly recommend this to address your high nitrate issues.

There are a lot of different options to help with high nutrients. It is something I have been battling and after research decide on this method. Pretty happy with it so far, just getting it dialed in.

Don't know anything about your process, but it sounds like space could be an issue if you are using a sand bed as your filtering mechanism. Especially for a larger tank with significant water flow.

 

[dwhanc00]

I am curious, during my last water change/cleaning of the sump I removed my Chaeto. It wasn't growing and it was breaking up and clogging my sump. I added the AF life bio as noted. Today my nutrients are NO3: 19 and PO4 0.16. I have not feed as much this week and dosed phosphate-e to help my PO4 - yesterday it was 0.15...

So, my question - I turned off my lights in the sump with no Chaeto. There was some algae in the sump that is dying. Could that be adding to my nutrient levels?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I am curious, during my last water change/cleaning of the sump I removed my Chaeto. It wasn't growing and it was breaking up and clogging my sump. I added the AF life bio as noted. Today my nutrients are NO3: 19 and PO4 0.16. I have not feed as much this week and dosed phosphate-e to help my PO4 - yesterday it was 0.15...

So, my question - I turned off my lights in the sump with no Chaeto. There was some algae in the sump that is dying. Could that be adding to my nutrient levels?

Dead organisms will release some nutrients, yes.

 

[dwhanc00]

Should I move my limited clean up crew that is in the sump?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Eaten is only a little better than just breaking down from the standpoint of released nutrients. -

 

[Gellisjr1]

I have also been experimenting with the Bacteria driven method for nutrient control. The problem I find with Aquaforest is lack of direction or explanation with the use of the products. Since this is a Polish company, I feel that a lot of the information is lost in translation from Polish to English. The number of products is over whelming w/o direction. I tried using the -NP Pro & Pro Bio S and did not realize that I should have been also using the Pro Bio F as well. I just wish they had better instructions.

Of the different methods of nutrient control, the bacteria method fits my Montra of reefing. I consider it a more natural approach vs a chemical one. I was also having high nutrient problems for some time. I have started to get some good results. I started out using Dr. Tim's bacteria products for the bacterial diversity and Tropic Marin's Bacto Balance as the carbon source and an algae reactor. I recently came across a Youtuber who's channel is Reefsite. He talks about his success and openly states what products he uses for his Bacteria Driven Method. I later found out the Youtuber is the former owner of Pro Corals who has the lineage to the PC Rainbow Acro and others. He uses Tropic Marin's All for Reef, Bacto balance, K.Z. Zeobac & Zeofood along with a media reactor for the Zeovit media. He states that you need to shake the media to release the bacteria into the water so the coral can feed on the bacteria and any remaining bacteria is taken care of by the protein skimmer. This morning I purchased the Zeobac, Zeofood, Zeovit media & another reactor. I figure if he is having success with this then I am on board.

With the KZ products they to have an over whelming number of products, however they have better directions and outline how to implement their products. From what I see I believe KZ is a very similar approach as Aquaforest's method.

If I may suggest. I would take Perry's advise and go back to the basics and reduce your feeding. I have stopped using reef roids completely.

Here are some links for more information.

https://www.korallen-zucht.de/out/pictures/wysiwigpro/korallenzucht_guide_easy_reefing_engl.pdf

https://www.korallen-zucht.de/out/pictures/wysiwigpro/20160516_coralsystems_flyer_screen.pdf

https://www.korallen-zucht.de/out/pictures/wysiwigpro/20131110_korallenflyer_engl_150dpi.pdf

https://www.korallen-zucht.de/out/pictures/wysiwigpro/produkt_finder_dosage_schedule.pdf

ReefSite

www.Reefsite.com

www.youtube.com