Apex DOS DIY level switch?

[DamianOZ]

I am not sure I understand the part "ATO pump outlet to the Outlet SWX* you are using for the optical water level sensor..."

I was thinking of replacing the float switches connecting to the breakout box with the optical sensor since it has no moving parts and less likely to fail but I am not 100% sure how yet...

Connecting an optical sensor will activate the DDR functions on Apex Fusion. This enables the 2 Level monitor graph and 2 optical sensor switches (or inputs status outlets)
referring to CuseReefer's image on reply #16 the address for these outlets are SWX7_1 and SW7_2
These outlets indicate the state of the optical sensors, either open or closed. No different to an outlet you would use for a float switch via the break out box.
You can rename them if you wish, via browser interface.... Configuration > Probe/Input Setup > probe name

To use as an ATO
Lets assume the optical switch is SWX7_1
Program the outlet (Energy Bar socket) that your using to control your ATO pump, or solenoid with something like this

Fallback OFF
Set OFF
If SWX7_1 OPEN Then ON
Defer 000:05 Then ON
Min Time 000:12 Then ON
Min Time 001:00 Then OFF

We could even use both optical switches
Lets assume the optical switch is SWX7_1 for lower and SWX7_2 for upper position
Program the EB*_* Outlet for the ATO like this

Fallback OFF
Set OFF
If SWX7_1 OPEN Then ON
If SWX7_2 CLOSED Then OFF
Defer 000:05 Then ON
Min Time 000:12 Then ON
Min Time 001:00 Then OFF

The defer and min times can vary depending on your system, they are not required, they just help prevent excess on/off, the fill volume etc...

 

[ngvu1]

I don't have a DOS so I don't know how to connect the optical sensor to the apex system I have now. Do I miss something?
Thanks

 

[CuseReefer]

I don't have a DOS so I don't know how to connect the optical sensor to the apex system I have now. Do I miss something?
Thanks

Yes currently you need a dos to use an optical sensor. I'm gonna do some work and maybe get it to work with an normal io port but it will need a 5v external supply and maybe additional hardware since apex io ports have pull ups to 5v. I have to do some circuit math to see what will work.

 

[ngvu1]

Yes, this is what I hoped/expected. Basically the idea is to short 2 wires when the water is at a certain level to trigger the pump. The optical sensor needs power to work since it has no moving parts...a 5V cell phone charger will be OK

Yes currently you need a dos to use an optical sensor. I'm gonna do some work and maybe get it to work with an normal io port but it will need a 5v external supply and maybe additional hardware since apex io ports have pull ups to 5v. I have to do some circuit math to see what will work.

 

[CuseReefer]

Does anyone know what value resistor Apex uses for the pull-up on the standard IO ports?

 

[TheHarold]

.

 

[DamianOZ]

The cct. you showed on page 1 post #12 should work fine.
Connect signal out to break out box input, connect common grounds. The I/O will show CLOSED when water is low, OPEN when dry.

 

[CuseReefer]

The cct. you showed on page 1 post #12 should work fine.
Connect signal out to break out box input, connect common grounds. The I/O will show CLOSED when water is low, OPEN when dry.

Have you tried this? Depends on what pull-up they are using for it to operate effectively. You want to ensure the phototransistor is operating in switch mode per this app note. https://www.fairchildsemi.com/application-notes/AN/AN-3005.pdf

My thought is to run the phototransistor in common emitter mode with added parallel resistance to the internal pull-up (if needed) to equal about 5k ohm total to 5v. This would ensure on-off/switch operation of the sensor and stay out of the active operating mode.

 

[ngvu1]

so there are 4 wires, which one goes to what? 5+V and ground, the other 2 wires are open or close right??????

 

[DamianOZ]

No I haven't tested it.
Yes, using the collector of the opto for signal out, with R2 from collector to +5V will work, however I would use a diode in series with the signal out and I/O input, to prevent 5V being applied to the input.

 

[CuseReefer]

No I haven't tested it.
Yes, using the collector of the opto for signal out, with R2 from collector to +5V will work, however I would use a diode in series with the signal out and I/O input, to prevent 5V being applied to the input.

True then that would allow you ignore the internal pull-up resistors effect on the sensor completely.

But if the internal pull-up is 4.7k or greater you can forgo using an external R2 thus saving some components and fully isolating the second +5v source from the input io since it would only be used to drive the source IR diode. I'll have to do some digging to see what they use internally.

 

[CuseReefer]

All. I am currently working on a breakout pcb board that will connect to the din8 connector on the apex (io port) that will let you connect multiple optical sensors as well as normal contact switches (magnet/float/etc). This will take a few weeks but should have prototypes within the month. The board will have connectors so you can directly connect the optical sensors and 1/8" headphone jacks for standard sensors. Also will have a power input port for a 5v wall supply to power the optical sensors.

 

[Oceansize]

Thinking about getting a DOS for the express purpose of setting up an AWC. This is exactly what I'm looking for. I haven't seen any responses to the question about resistance issues with longer sensor wires....I have this question too.

 

[CuseReefer]

Thinking about getting a DOS for the express purpose of setting up an AWC. This is exactly what I'm looking for. I haven't seen any responses to the question about resistance issues with longer sensor wires....I have this question too.

Honestly don't think it will be an issue. I wouldn't go longer than 20 ft, the line resistance added would only be minimal.

 

[Oceansize]

Honestly don't think it will be an issue. I wouldn't go longer than 20 ft, the line resistance added would only be minimal.

Cool. Now the only remaining issue is convincing the wife why punching a small hole in the wall between the living room and the outside of the house is a good idea. Wish me luck!

 

[CuseReefer]

Well I got bored tonight, knocked out the first pass on a circuit card to interface 4 optical sensors to the normal APEX IO port. Also will allow you to connect normal switches to all 6 ports via 1/8" headphone jacks. Ports 1-4 can be one or the other. Will prob throw a prototype together in 3 or so weeks.

 

[joeboots82520]

Cuse do you think it would be possible to wire 2 of the optical sensors in parallel to one switch pinout on the DOS molex connector? Let say you wanted to use two sensor in different locations both as say high level kill switches? or low level kill switches for leak detection to shut down a pump or trigger an alarm?

 

[reeksreef]

@CuseReefer I'm buying a DOS soon and I'm interested in purchasing the cable from you. Will order the optical sensor you recommend.

 

[aquaterra]

Ok here it is. This is what I got working tonight using 1 optical sensor but should work with 2 with no problems. Do this at your own risk.

DIY DOS DDR Optical Cable How To:

Two options for the connector:
Option 1 - Crimp method (for the skilled only)

- 6-pin Molex Nano-fit receptical (http://www.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Detail&itemSeq=195971922&uq=635975683447627144)
- 6 crimp pins for Molex connector (http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/molex-llc/0462350001/WM7082CT-ND/3045001)

Option 2 - Premade assembly (easier)
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- 6 pin Molex PCI Express Power Cable (http://www.ebay.com/itm/4-Pin-Molex...508346?hash=item2edecd8c3a:g:n9kAAOSwNSxVAdh6)

So i purchased the cable off of your link and it looks like the cable I got only has 5 out of the 6 metal terminals. Furthermore it doesnt fit into the DOS 6 port. Am I missing something? I purchased a different molex cable 6 pin cable to try it out and it doesn't fit either. Any suggestions?

 

[CuseReefer]

So i purchased the cable off of your link and it looks like the cable I got only has 5 out of the 6 metal terminals. Furthermore it doesnt fit into the DOS 6 port. Am I missing something? I purchased a different molex cable 6 pin cable to try it out and it doesn't fit either. Any suggestions?

Crap, my bad I think you're right I have the wrong premade cable listed. I have only bought the connector and pins myself, then crimped my own wires. Here are the correct parts for the connector housing and pins from Digikey.com