Another RSR XL 425 build

[shakeandbake]

Waiting on the QT to cycle and working on plumbing this beast. I've looked at a lot of pictures of the old sump and the right to left layout plumbing just looked clean and straight forward. With the V3 sump, the drains have to be kicked out to the front right chamber and the return chamber is directly below the tank bulkheads. It leads to a log jam of pipes on the right side of the sump and it requires some creative connections to arrange a simple Carbon, GFO manifold. I have to pickup a few additional elbows and the like before finalizing so I guess I will think on it for another week. But this is what I came up with so far.

Along these same lines...

• I am not sure 1 1/4" pvc was needed for the main drain. But that is what is on there now. That 1 1/4" gate valve is the size of my first tank.
• The FMM kit seemed like a good idea at the time. On the return line the flow meeter needs 10 inches. After T-ing off to the manifold, I had maybe 5/8's of an inch to spare between the COR and the tank connection. I wasn't 100% sure if that design would work until after gluing a few pieces.
• The 1/2" flow meters need 5 inches, so putting them after the gate valve but before the reactor means spreading the manifold out all over the place. I am leaning towards putting them on the reactor outlets and saving the real estate. @SuncrestReef was clear in stating that this is a bad idea, or at the least a poor design choice, due to carbon and gfo exiting the chamber and clogging the meters. I am on the fence here but this would just make it significantly easier to fit. It would also permit easier removal of the valves down the line to clean or replace. If I put them between the gate valve and the reactor they might need unions? That would easily add another 5 inches. Maybe I can use a small screen to prevent carbon from escaping the reactor.

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[Smcevoy]

Ran into a slight delay with the electrical as I needed to add a tandem breaker. Then we moved the tank. That was actually a piece of cake 5 minute job with 3 guys. So the sump lighting is done and the QT is all set up with Dr. Tims working on a fishless cycle. Now on to the fun part. Ordering equipment and getting started on plumbing the sump. First, the obligatory "pre-set-up" tank shot. Then a couple quick "first fish" pics from the holiday weekend.

looks good but nothing better than slamming kings on lake ontario

 

[shakeandbake]

looks good but nothing better than slamming kings on lake ontario

Absolutely. Nice job on the fish and location ID. Those fish weren't even the mature fish we are after. There is a reason they call them kings!

 

[Smcevoy]

Absolutely. Nice job on the fish and location ID. Those fish weren't even the mature fish we are after. There is a reason they call them kings!

My parents live in south hills south of buffalo so I go out of Alcott when I go in the summer

 

[Smcevoy]

Absolutely. Nice job on the fish and location ID. Those fish weren't even the mature fish we are after. There is a reason they call them kings!

Last time I was up there

 

[shakeandbake]

Last time I was up there

Very nice!

I haven't fished the west end of the lake but last year we drove the boat from Wilson to Fair Haven. It is an amazing fishery. We are seeing some some big kings this year. Top spot on the LOC summer derby leader board is just over 29lbs. You need weigh over 26 just to crack the top 20.

 

[Jason Scalise]

Waiting on the QT to cycle and working on plumbing this beast. I've looked at a lot of pictures of the old sump and the right to left layout plumbing just looked clean and straight forward. With the V3 sump, the drains have to be kicked out to the front right chamber and the return chamber is directly below the tank bulkheads. It leads to a log jam of pipes on the right side of the sump and it requires some creative connections to arrange a simple Carbon, GFO manifold. I have to pickup a few additional elbows and the like before finalizing so I guess I will think on it for another week. But this is what I came up with so far.

Along these same lines...

• I am not sure 1 1/4" pvc was needed for the main drain. But that is what is on there now. That 1 1/4" gate valve is the size of my first tank.
• The FMM kit seemed like a good idea at the time. On the return line the flow meeter needs 10 inches. After T-ing off to the manifold, I had maybe 5/8's of an inch to spare between the COR and the tank connection. I wasn't 100% sure if that design would work until after gluing a few pieces.
• The 1/2" flow meters need 5 inches, so putting them after the gate valve but before the reactor means spreading the manifold out all over the place. I am leaning towards putting them on the reactor outlets and saving the real estate. @SuncrestReef was clear in stating that this is a bad idea, or at the least a poor design choice, due to carbon and gfo exiting the chamber and clogging the meters. I am on the fence here but this would just make it significantly easier to fit. It would also permit easier removal of the valves down the line to clean or replace. If I put them between the gate valve and the reactor they might need unions? That would easily add another 5 inches. Maybe I can use a small screen to prevent carbon from escaping the reactor.

• 
  
  

Nice solutions to that real estate (or lack of) problem. My 425XL RSR does not have the v3 sump. purchased about 18 mo ago (I.e. return chamber and pump is on the far left side).
I find the RSR sumps a little small in some spots and overly generous in others. Arguably, that is nitpicking but having it all come in one box and ready to assemble is a plus, of course.

You MAY wish to consider a separate pump for your manifold duties...if you think you have room. the second pump can also drive the flow for a sterilizer should you wish to add later. Something to think about before you glue everything and add water. That said, looks like you have unions everywhere (good thing) so you can modify later too.

Lastly, if you were still considering your Husky rack as perhaps not being strong to hold full reservoirs, I did find alternatives on Lowes and HD websites that were not available in stores but were 'online-only' that have higher weight ratings. Shipped right to Lowes in a couple of days and I picked up from the store.
Was important to me because I have 2 65gallon reservoirs.
This one may not fit your space, of course....but just an idea for concept purposes. Holds up to 2000 pounds. (Lowes item # 636856)
Gladiator rack

 

[najer]

Nicely done.

 

[shakeandbake]

Nice solutions to that real estate (or lack of) problem. My 425XL RSR does not have the v3 sump. purchased about 18 mo ago (I.e. return chamber and pump is on the far left side).
I find the RSR sumps a little small in some spots and overly generous in others. Arguably, that is nitpicking but having it all come in one box and ready to assemble is a plus, of course.

You MAY wish to consider a separate pump for your manifold duties...if you think you have room. the second pump can also drive the flow for a sterilizer should you wish to add later. Something to think about before you glue everything and add water. That said, looks like you have unions everywhere (good thing) so you can modify later too.

Lastly, if you were still considering your Husky rack as perhaps not being strong to hold full reservoirs, I did find alternatives on Lowes and HD websites that were not available in stores but were 'online-only' that have higher weight ratings. Shipped right to Lowes in a couple of days and I picked up from the store.
Was important to me because I have 2 65gallon reservoirs.
This one may not fit your space, of course....but just an idea for concept purposes. Holds up to 2000 pounds. (Lowes item # 636856)
Gladiator rack

Thank you for your input and for your advice. So far, the Husky rack, remains square and plumb. After some close initial monitoring I am more convinced now that it can handle the 2 x 35 gallon load. That said, I would not even consider it without the addition of the 3/4" plywood shelve support. In my opinion, the advertised 1,000lb per shelf capacity of the stock wire shelves is pure fantasy. If I was starting over, I might consider an alternative to the top shelf mixing station. Not due to weight, but in response to me bumping my head on the plumbing while working below in the QT. However, with the adjacent room layout, space constraints, and my desire to keep 2 QT tanks up and running, it may still prove to be the best location. That said, the gladiator rack that you proposed really looks like a better option.

I initially roughed in 2 different ideas for the return and manifold layout. After consideration, I decided to go with this "two-part strategy" layout. First, I would T off the main return to add the carbon and GFO reactors. Then, if I decide to add a UV sterilizer, I would run that separate off its own pump. I thought that could be a simpler initial solution so I could get up and running. It also avoided having to spring for a second pump right off the bat and some how trying to cram that into the smaller V3 return chamber.

 

[revhtree]

Very nice build!

 

[shakeandbake]

Very nice build!

Thank you!

I worked on buttoning up the manifold Friday and that went surprisingly smooth. Fingers crossed.

Sunday morning I moved in the rock scape and then spent an hour or two rinsing and dropping in sand. The eMarco set well. But I needed some super glue on a few final pieces once they were in the tank. I decided to go with tropic eden mesoflakes a little while back and I picked up three 30lb bags. They definitely needed some rinsing. I had an igloo 5 gallon water cooler that I had used previously for an RO DI tank. I'd rinse half a bag with the hose, drop in a cap of Erase CL, wait 20 minutes, test with a strip and then drain it well and dump it in the tank a scoop full at a time. The water cooler worked well because I could let it sit for a few minutes and then drain any water left behind with the spigot at the bottom.

Two of the 30lb bags seemed like enough to start. I thought it would need more than 60lbs of sand to get 1-2 inches but I decided to wait on the third bag. I'll see what it looks like after it blows around and settles in.

I filled up the sump and got the tank maybe half filled. Plan to finish the fill up tomorrow, then let it run for a day or two and check for leaks.

 

[Jason Scalise]

do you plan to leave the doors off the stand?

 

[shakeandbake]

do you plan to leave the doors off the stand?

I thought about it, but my plan right now is to hang the doors after leak testing. I wired the sump lights to a magnetic switch that will power on when the left cabinet door opens. So I think I am going to stick with that. I am also thinking about making a small control board to hang on the wall to the right of the tank. That will leave the right cabinet for just the power bar, 2 power bricks, and the main heater controller for now, while leaving room for storage, and then maybe another addition or two down the line. Ha, maybe an addition.

 

[shakeandbake]

Day two on the leak test. So far, so good.

Took a little playing around to dial things in, get the water level in the return chamber where I think I want it, and fine tune the return pump flow.

First, I set the IQ on the Cor-20. Max ended up at maybe 65-70%. Then with the pump running at 70% of that, (so say 45% of pump max?), I am at about 575 gph on the return flow meter. With the manifold on and the reactors getting maybe 25-40 gph, flow I moved the Cor up to 75% and the return flow was back to 575gph. I am not sure if that is where we want it really. I settled there mostly because it looked smooth and sounded quieter. At 650, the water in the sump was rushing around a little bit for my liking. I don't know, this is my first experience with a sump. Anyway, I thought I'd shoot for 5-ish times turnover rate and at 112g, 5x would be 560.

Then, I cut the power to the return pump and checked the sump levels. With everything off I end up with maybe 4 inches remaining to the top of the sump.

I think I want the running water level in the return chamber at maybe 6 inches? Right now it is a maybe a half inch over that. I think I am going to leave it and then after a day or so of evaporation I will set up the ATO.

I have a Finnex heater controller and added the sensor to the first sump chamber. Then I placed two 300w heaters in the final return chamber. I wanted to keep heater elements away from potential skimmer plastic and out of the refugium. I may have to test this layout. If for any reason the return chamber runs dry, I expect the Cor to automatically turn off, and then the tank to siphon back to the sumps off water level. So worst case scenario maybe a heater might be exposed for 15-20 seconds?

 

[shakeandbake]

Still working to get systems online and stabilized. Temp dialed in pretty quickly with two 300W Finnex heaters on independent controllers. 78-78.6 yesterday. Overshot the salinity a touch. Brought that down to 36.5. Going to bring that down a little more but waiting for the ATO to go online. PH fluctuating around 7.9-8.1. Not looking at that at all really until I turn on the skimmer. Added a little loc line to the return Y and moved the COR up to 60% to maintain 600gph. WAVs online at maybe 20-30% and getting flo of 5.4.

Still waiting for the QT tank to cycle. I suspect the bare bottom PVC setup slows the process quite a bit. I might maybe be at day 25? Ammonia drops to 0.2 in a day or two, but NO2 still runs at 1.0, and NO3 is up at maybe 30. Think it is getting close.

Had to run out of town and I have to say... first impression of the Apex with the Fusion app... very, very, nice. I was able to monitor closely. Maybe too closely. Ha. I did especially like seeing the sump levels via the ATO sensors so I could make sure that the return chamber didn't run too low without the ATO operating. When the low sensor did finally open I was able to remotely reduce the return pump to 50% and then see the resulting rise in the return chamber close the sensors.

On to a few initial set up quirks. First, the 1 inch flow meter is ticking a little bit. Not a big deal. At first I thought it was my return pump. That led to me pulling the sump apart to inspect. Unable to diagnose it myself, I set up a ticket, and Neptune service was incredibly helpful and responsive. I now believe that the location of the flow meter might be resulting in some turbulence causing the wheel in the meter to tick occasionally. Hard to say. They advised that the 1 inch flow meter should have 12 inches of clearance on either side from any T's or elbows for optimal operation. Second, my PMUP on the ATO pulses and doesn't power on when the water level opens the switch. I am working on that now. I suspect it is something silly on my end like the programming, or needing to pull the cover off and adjust the impeller, or seal, etc.

 

[shakeandbake]

Not much to report this week. Still waiting on the QT to cycle. Dr. Tims on day 30. Ammonia drops to 0-0.2 but nitrites still read high at 1.0. Staying patient there. But the rest of the house is ready for some fish. I added a rock to the QT for some surface area. I will remove that before adding anything to the QT and then use it to seed the display. I put together a simple panel to mount controllers using the tank shipping crate and then I hung the doors. I almost couldn't get the left door on. I purposely left some space between the sump and the stand on that side so I could snap the bottom hinge on with the sump full. It juuust made it. But I cut it awful close. Ha.

On the fine tuning/debugging side... I was very happy to find one morning that the flow meter on the return decided that it wants to run silent now. I am waiting on a PMUP for my ATK. My salinity probe seems a little sensitive. I notice random readings if I move the probe or turn off the return pump. Bubbles, or temp related, maybe. I calibrated it, but even after it settles in it doesn't seem to match up with what my refractometer reads. I think I might order some more calibration fluid and try to dial that in.

Little scare with some moisture that I found around two of the leveling feet on the left side of the tank. A very small amount of moisture, not a visible collection of water, but a drop or two maybe that was wet the touch. I initially thought maybe I splashed a little, but after drying it off, I noticed that it returned. So I ran through a close inspection looking for leaks. I didn't find any moisture on any of the bulkheads, plumbing, or in the sump itself. Later I noticed droplets on the rim of the tank and if I run my finger along the rim I pick up moisture similar to what I was seeing on the floor. I think there may be a fine mist that escapes the rim of the tank, lands on the rubber floor, and then becomes visible in one or two locations. I moved the WAVs lower in the tank and plan to monitor.

 

[shakeandbake]

If someone had told me 5-years ago that one day I would happily spend $150 on algae, bacteria, some pods, and a bottle of pyhytoplankton, I would have laughed in their face.

When I got home from work yesterday my wife told me that a package had arrived for me. I had to pretend that it was something important so that she didn't think I was that excited over algae. Algae. That I paid for.

 

[shakeandbake]

Monitored the chaeto for a week or so in the QT and then added it to the refugium along with the Tunze LEDs and pods.

Re-calibrated the salinity probe and that seems to be behaving much better. Display tank parameters have stabilized at temp 78.5, sal 32.7, and ph 8.0.

I feel like my ATO kicks on maybe a dozen times a day. I am not sure if that is typical? I thought about playing with the programing to have it run an extra 20 seconds and maybe cut down on the on/off cycling. But elected to leave it alone for now since it is doing its job well.

3 weeks ago we saw a tank full of premium snowflake clowns at the LFS. Yesterday there were three left so we decided to take the largest and smallest home with us. We temp acclimated the bag for 30 mins and then acclimated them by hanging a large specimen container inside the tank and adding a cup of water every 10 mins. After doubling the volume maybe 2x we tested the salinity and then dropped them in the QT. The pair immediately started to explore and they looked well, ate like they were hungry, and look to be swimming together and getting along well.

So our first additions are in the QT. QT noobs here, so we are hoping to observe nothing, treat with prazi, and QT for 30 plus days. We have copper power and hanna tester, but would like to avoid that. We could go with a tank transfer method with a 10g and the red sea ATO tank. But we want to monitor for a few days first. Fingers crossed...

 

[shakeandbake]

 

[shakeandbake]

Focusing on the QT right now. Parameters look good except nitrates were getting a little high. Definitely overfeeding. Did a 20% water change yesterday. Fish are eating well. After about a week I caught both fish swimming around with some white stringy poop. So I soaked mysis and pellets in General Cure using a Humblefish recipe to treat intestinal worms and internal parasites. I plan to feed medicated food and monitor for another 3 weeks.

I set up a camera on the QT tank to check in on it every so often nanny cam style. I use the foscam app for streaming video but I did add a link to the Fusion dashboard to display a current image. That is actually nice. It requires less data and it provides a visual check in when I glance in on the display tank's status and parameters.

I got the "left the RO/DI water system running" mistake out of the way already. I was just going to top off the tank before mixing up some extra saltwater for the QT water change. I guess I was just so excited to go to a 1-year old's birthday party that I completely forgot it was on. Wasn't bad. Quick pass with the shop vac took care of it. On the bright side the apex alerted me with the closed ato hi sensor. The ATO siphon valve got submerged in the RO/DI tank, the return chamber rose and the mechanical shut off was triggered. I moved the siphon valve higher and made a mental note not to run out on the RO/DI when the tank is already 3/4 full.