acute genocide

[amyxagl]

yes another post about fish death, but im a bit lost.
All my fish with the exception of a tomini tang died in a span of 12 hours. All my numbers look fine. i had a power outage for 8 mins while i was at work during lunch. came home everyone was dead or dying.
4 chromis
2 clowns
blue hippo tang
desj. sailfin tang
tail spot blenny
royal gamma

i bought the desj. sailfin on sunday and was in a acclimation box. the store that i bought from runs low salinity and copper on all its fish and did proper drip method. havent had an issue with any of their fish.
the power outage erased my cor-20 iq settings and ran 100% instead of the usual 40%. i noticed this 2 hours later when i got a notification that my ato had an error, and ran too long and cut off.
my first thought was it dumped too much rodi but the salinity only dropped from 1.026 to 1.024 which i didnt think was too much to kill everyone.
i fixed my iq settings while i was at work but when i came home it was still draining through my emergency drain causing tons of bubbles in the sump. found out one of the dying chromis got sucked thru and clogged my main drain.

did a 20% water change and started running an air stone last night. its a 70+20 gal system so i could only do so much water last night. i plan on doing another 20 tonight when i get home.

the only thing ive been dosing for the past 2 weeks is ph+ at half dose raising ph only .1 at a time to combat my cal rx

inverts seem fine, so i know many will say disease, but would it act this fast?
i have uv and ozone.

in the 15 years i have never had this happen. im currently at work so i will try to respond when i can. any insight will help. i take it i shouldnt add any fish at this point.

 

[MnFish1]

Did you see any spots or symptoms on the fish - do you have a picture of them before death? The specific gravity would not kill the fish. Assuming your other parameters are totally normal - and that the remaining tang shows no sign of illness (can you send a picture of it)? If it was aggression, the fish would be injured with torn fins, etc. I doubt the issues with your pump caused fish death (if off only for 8 minutes).

There is no reason to think oxygen would be an issue. I doubt ammonia would be an issue (how big is your tank) - though it could be that 1 fish died and spiked ammonia (even though the coral is ok) - however as you said, it seems like this is likely a disease - and likely from the new fish - and likely velvet.

Since it's impossible to know what happened, I agree you should not add new fish. I would consider quarantining the remaining fish in copper and prazipro in a hospital tank (assuming you didn't do that) - unless you know that the LFS used copper at the proper levels. low salinity does not affect velvet negatively.

 

[Cell]

You said LFS runs low salinity and copper, but if they aren't running copper at therapeutic levels, they are merely delaying potential disease progression.

 

[ISpeakForTheSeas]

My thought would be velvet from the new tang combined with the multiple, sudden, small water quality changes causing stress and weakening the fishes' immune systems.

Edit: To add, yeah, I would run the DT fallow and QT the survivor/any new fish:

Current Quarantine Protocol

2023 Quarantine Procedures Jay Hemdal David Scarborough Protozoans (Cryptocaryon/ich, Amyloodinium/velvet) and Metazoan trematodes/flukes are by far the most common parasites found on newly acquired fish. A carefully managed quarantine process can effectively eliminate these parasites before...

www.reef2reef.com

 

[MnFish1]

And PS - you would also want to leave your display tank 'fallow' (without fish) for 6 weeks, while quarantining the tang.

 

[vetteguy53081]

yes another post about fish death, but im a bit lost.
All my fish with the exception of a tomini tang died in a span of 12 hours. All my numbers look fine. i had a power outage for 8 mins while i was at work during lunch. came home everyone was dead or dying.
4 chromis
2 clowns
blue hippo tang
desj. sailfin tang
tail spot blenny
royal gamma

i bought the desj. sailfin on sunday and was in a acclimation box. the store that i bought from runs low salinity and copper on all its fish and did proper drip method. havent had an issue with any of their fish.
the power outage erased my cor-20 iq settings and ran 100% instead of the usual 40%. i noticed this 2 hours later when i got a notification that my ato had an error, and ran too long and cut off.
my first thought was it dumped too much rodi but the salinity only dropped from 1.026 to 1.024 which i didnt think was too much to kill everyone.
i fixed my iq settings while i was at work but when i came home it was still draining through my emergency drain causing tons of bubbles in the sump. found out one of the dying chromis got sucked thru and clogged my main drain.

did a 20% water change and started running an air stone last night. its a 70+20 gal system so i could only do so much water last night. i plan on doing another 20 tonight when i get home.

the only thing ive been dosing for the past 2 weeks is ph+ at half dose raising ph only .1 at a time to combat my cal rx

inverts seem fine, so i know many will say disease, but would it act this fast?
i have uv and ozone.

in the 15 years i have never had this happen. im currently at work so i will try to respond when i can. any insight will help. i take it i shouldnt add any fish at this point.

In scenarios such as this, its either disease or water quality. If the inverts and coral are doing fine, it points to disease. There symptoms associated with disease and symptoms often suggest cause. eight minute outage should not have had an impact unless there was a sudden spike. If you saw remaining fish gasping at surface, breathing very heavy, swimming in path of flow, may be velvet. Other would be flukes in which fish are lethargic, gasping. sluggish and hiding..... but these both are progressive and in a 12hr span suggests oxygen issue with the short power loss.
Its a challenge to pinpoint cause without prior symptoms and sudden loss

 

[amyxagl]

Did you see any spots or symptoms on the fish - do you have a picture of them before death? The specific gravity would not kill the fish. Assuming your other parameters are totally normal - and that the remaining tang shows no sign of illness (can you send a picture of it)? If it was aggression, the fish would be injured with torn fins, etc. I doubt the issues with your pump caused fish death (if off only for 8 minutes).

There is no reason to think oxygen would be an issue. I doubt ammonia would be an issue (how big is your tank) - though it could be that 1 fish died and spiked ammonia (even though the coral is ok) - however as you said, it seems like this is likely a disease - and likely from the new fish - and likely velvet.

Since it's impossible to know what happened, I agree you should not add new fish. I would consider quarantining the remaining fish in copper and prazipro in a hospital tank (assuming you didn't do that) - unless you know that the LFS used copper at the proper levels. low salinity does not affect velvet negatively.

im starting to come to the conclusion it might be velvet. i just didnt think it would happen that fast though. also was in a acclimation box.

ammonia was zero. tank is 7 months old and i struggle to keep phosphates up and nitrates are stable around 10. i didnt get pics as i was too mad and flushed them. i learned that lesson at least.

the remaining tang seems fine although being a bit shy. the blue hippo was alive but dying when i got home and burying himself in the rock. tried to revive him with an airstone in a box but didnt avail. some fish had bites taken but probably that was during the course of them dying.

ill have to ask lfs about copper levels. he runs all his tanks with copper for the fish for sale.

 

[amyxagl]

You said LFS runs low salinity and copper, but if they aren't running copper at therapeutic levels, they are merely delaying potential disease progression.

good point. i will ask them about their copper levels

 

[Cell]

If the LFS is not selling these as "quarantined" fish then it is almost assuredly not running therapeutic levels.

 

[amyxagl]

My thought would be velvet from the new tang combined with the multiple, sudden, small water quality changes causing stress and weakening the fishes' immune systems.

Edit: To add, yeah, I would run the DT fallow and QT the survivor/any new fish:

Current Quarantine Protocol

2023 Quarantine Procedures Jay Hemdal David Scarborough Protozoans (Cryptocaryon/ich, Amyloodinium/velvet) and Metazoan trematodes/flukes are by far the most common parasites found on newly acquired fish. A carefully managed quarantine process can effectively eliminate these parasites before...

www.reef2reef.com

i had done the water changes after coming home to almost all of them dead. i figured couldnt hurt since they were goners already

 

[amyxagl]

If the LFS is not selling these as "quarantined" fish then it is almost assuredly not running therapeutic levels.

good to know

 

[MnFish1]

good to know

One way to 'get around this potential issue' - since some stores do not admit to using copper or hypo salinity is to try to purchase fish that are in a tank with invertebrates (which would not survive hypo salinity or copper - depending on the levels)

 

[amyxagl]

In scenarios such as this, its either disease or water quality. If the inverts and coral are doing fine, it points to disease. There symptoms associated with disease and symptoms often suggest cause. eight minute outage should not have had an impact unless there was a sudden spike. If you saw remaining fish gasping at surface, breathing very heavy, swimming in path of flow, may be velvet. Other would be flukes in which fish are lethargic, gasping. sluggish and hiding..... but these both are progressive and in a 12hr span suggests oxygen issue with the short power loss.
Its a challenge to pinpoint cause without prior symptoms and sudden loss

this is helpful. they were darting around from what i saw on my living room cam. suggesting it might have been velvet from the desj. sailfin tang. its frustrating because i know about qt but never had an issue until now with my biggest tank and most expensive fish. ‍ like i said i didnt think diseases acted this fast which is why i turned to the forum.

 

[vetteguy53081]

this is helpful. they were darting around from what i saw on my living room cam. suggesting it might have been velvet from the desj. sailfin tang. its frustrating because i know about qt but never had an issue until now with my biggest tank and most expensive fish. ‍ like i said i didnt think diseases acted this fast which is why i turned to the forum.

Scratching, itching, sudden darting and yawning is towards flukes as darting is often fish trying to shake flukes but not ruling out velvet

 

[amyxagl]

One way to 'get around this potential issue' - since some stores do not admit to using copper or hypo salinity is to try to purchase fish that are in a tank with invertebrates (which would not survive hypo salinity or copper - depending on the levels)

i see. yeah they have their reef tanks with inverts a few utility fish in regular salinity. all the other fish are in displays with fake rock and copper.

 

[amyxagl]

Scratching, itching, sudden darting and yawning is towards flukes as darting is often fish trying to shake flukes but not ruling out velvet

doing more research. yeah i didnt see any spots like velvet.

 

[amyxagl]

And PS - you would also want to leave your display tank 'fallow' (without fish) for 6 weeks, while quarantining the tang.

this i will do. my wallet already hurts

 

[Jay Hemdal]

yes another post about fish death, but im a bit lost.
All my fish with the exception of a tomini tang died in a span of 12 hours. All my numbers look fine. i had a power outage for 8 mins while i was at work during lunch. came home everyone was dead or dying.
4 chromis
2 clowns
blue hippo tang
desj. sailfin tang
tail spot blenny
royal gamma

i bought the desj. sailfin on sunday and was in a acclimation box. the store that i bought from runs low salinity and copper on all its fish and did proper drip method. havent had an issue with any of their fish.
the power outage erased my cor-20 iq settings and ran 100% instead of the usual 40%. i noticed this 2 hours later when i got a notification that my ato had an error, and ran too long and cut off.
my first thought was it dumped too much rodi but the salinity only dropped from 1.026 to 1.024 which i didnt think was too much to kill everyone.
i fixed my iq settings while i was at work but when i came home it was still draining through my emergency drain causing tons of bubbles in the sump. found out one of the dying chromis got sucked thru and clogged my main drain.

did a 20% water change and started running an air stone last night. its a 70+20 gal system so i could only do so much water last night. i plan on doing another 20 tonight when i get home.

the only thing ive been dosing for the past 2 weeks is ph+ at half dose raising ph only .1 at a time to combat my cal rx

inverts seem fine, so i know many will say disease, but would it act this fast?
i have uv and ozone.

in the 15 years i have never had this happen. im currently at work so i will try to respond when i can. any insight will help. i take it i shouldnt add any fish at this point.

I’m going to focus on “tons of bubbles in the sump”. I think this was an acute supersaturation event. If those bubbles get picked up by a pump, they are compressed into solution. Then, when the water is jetted out into the tank, the pressure is released and the fish are exposed to it. Nitrogen gas diffuses across the gills, and then comes out of solution in the fish’s blood. If you have a microscope, you can usually see silver lines in the fins and gills, that’s the gas coming out of their blood. In severe cases, you don’t need a microscope. Some fish can survive, especially if they hide under something, where the partial pressure of the gas is a bit less.

I once was called in to do some troubleshooting on a store’s system - they would wait for the pumps in their dumps to start vortexing before topping them up - and their fish all had “silver gills” as they described it to me.

If the tomini is still alive, you can rule out an acute disease event, as well as water toxicity.

It is possible, but not probable, that the system malfunction resulted in low dissolved oxygen. The effects are similar.

It seems counterintuitive, but adding aeration fixes a supersaturation event, kind of like shaking a can of soda.

 

[amyxagl]

I’m going to focus on “tons of bubbles in the sump”. I think this was an acute supersaturation event. If those bubbles get picked up by a pump, they are compressed into solution. Then, when the water is jetted out into the tank, the pressure is released and the fish are exposed to it. Nitrogen gas diffuses across the gills, and then comes out of solution in the fish’s blood. If you have a microscope, you can usually see silver lines in the fins and gills, that’s the gas coming out of their blood. In severe cases, you don’t need a microscope. Some fish can survive, especially if they hide under something, where the partial pressure of the gas is a bit less.

I once was called in to do some troubleshooting on a store’s system - they would wait for the pumps in their dumps to start vortexing before topping them up - and their fish all had “silver gills” as they described it to me.

If the tomini is still alive, you can rule out an acute disease event, as well as water toxicity.

It is possible, but not probable, that the system malfunction resulted in low dissolved oxygen. The effects are similar.

It seems counterintuitive, but adding aeration fixes a supersaturation event, kind of like shaking a can of soda.

this is why i mentioned the sump. i know it can happen. haven't had that issue before but i know nitrogen poisoning is possible.

 

[amyxagl]

update: velvet confirmed. came home and the tomini didnt survive.
took photos this time. didnt think it acted that fast.

sad day for me. big thank you to everyone on here trying to help me out

the fallow has started. and ive learned about qt. everyone doesnt do it till they experienced something like this.