A kitchen reef in Norway!
- Build Thread
- Thread starter Christoball
- Start date
- Tagged users None
OP
OP
Christoball
Community Member
With what and how can i dose NO3 and PO4? Cheers
OP
OP
Christoball
Community Member
I agree, but i cant seem to figure out the how part.
|Tom the Bomb|
Active Member
do u have ammonia nitrite calc and other parameters probes or auto tests like alkatronic reefbot or trident (i may be dumb but that's what I thought when looked at the graph) or are those just an app or spreadsheet where u record the parameters u manually tested and it makes it into a graph but great tank
Hincapiej4
Valuable Member
ESV B-Ionic Nitrate
Provide your reef with nitrogen essential to great growth and color, with no unwanted by-products. B-Ionic was introduced to address the low nitrate conditions found in many modern reef aquaria, in a formulation that would avoid some of the side-effects of other similar supplements, such as...
www.bulkreefsupply.com
Could also feed more. There's a version the phos too
Viking_Reefing
Valuable Member
I’ve always just feed the tank more but you could try dosing straight up N and P.
OP
OP
Christoball
Community Member
It is an app called aquarimate. I put in the numbers. I csn recomend the app
OP
OP
Christoball
Community Member
I feed ALOT almost all of the food i give ends up as waste..
|Tom the Bomb|
Active Member
also if u get a good sized with good light refugium or a decent sized algae reactor or algae scrubber if u don't have space and combine that with ur big skimmer and carbon at this point waste and nutrients aren't a problem and could go with 1-2months no wc providing u dose decently
Koen Vervaeke
Community Member
- Joined
- Jun 5, 2020
- Messages
- 30
- Reaction score
- 19
Hi Chris, all the problems that you describe are all too familiar for many starting reefers. On R2R you will find the advice to get you back on track.
Here are a few comments (that should be challenged by others). Some of the problems that you run into are new-tank problems. First, things have been going perhaps too fast. Second, don't try to fix things abruptly but slowly.
Then more specifically from the beginning. The tap-water (?) start wasn't a great idea, but Norwegian water isn't the worst so you probably go away with it to some degree. You should be good now with your RO installation.
Next up, the cycle. I am not entirely sure how much of a cycle you really had. Zeobak and sponge power are two "black box" products. As far as I know, only KZ knows what's in it. Zeobak are probably bacteria (not sure what kind), but what is spongepower? I never used it but some suspect it may be a carbon source (based on its pungent smell). If so, you may be doing so-called carbon dosing. Hence, that it is not surprising that you keep NO3 and PO4 so low. I would regard these products as relatively aggressive in keeping nutrients down. So then to come back to the cycle: What ammonia source did the nitrifying bacteria get? Was it part of the sponge power? I somewhat doubt that. In short, I don't know to what degree you built up a healthy colony of nitrifying bacteria by the time you introduced your first organisms.
Then the water changes. These were probably too many and too fast. In a tank that has little competing micro life to start with (you used dry rock / not life rock) AND starved from nutrients (possible carbon dosing + too many water changes) dinos will reign above anything else. When overwhelming they can be toxic for the living creatures in your tank. Are you still dosing zeobak and sponge power? If yes, I would stop that and SLOWLY let your NO3 and PO4 rise a little. I wouldn't dose NO3 and PO4 because your fish poop and leftover fish food will produce more of that stuff than you care for.
At the same time, could you start growing cheato in your sump to take care of nutrient export for when that NO3 and PO4 starts to rise?
Next up the alkalinity swings. They are brutal! What salt are you using? Did I see it correctly that you got 12 dkh after a water change? Are you using Red Sea Coral Pro? That gets you such a high dkh. But for reason's I won't go Into now, I wouldn't use that. Starters are better off with the Red Sea blue bucket and aim for a dkh of 8.0-8.5.
Others should chime in here.
Cheers
Revision: If I understand your posts correctly, then those high Alk spikes are due to dosing, not water changes. In that case you added too much at once. I would advise to track the Alk changes over time and then estimate the daily dkh change. Then use a dosing pump to add that amount on a daily basis, instead of a large correction at once.
Here are a few comments (that should be challenged by others). Some of the problems that you run into are new-tank problems. First, things have been going perhaps too fast. Second, don't try to fix things abruptly but slowly.
Then more specifically from the beginning. The tap-water (?) start wasn't a great idea, but Norwegian water isn't the worst so you probably go away with it to some degree. You should be good now with your RO installation.
Next up, the cycle. I am not entirely sure how much of a cycle you really had. Zeobak and sponge power are two "black box" products. As far as I know, only KZ knows what's in it. Zeobak are probably bacteria (not sure what kind), but what is spongepower? I never used it but some suspect it may be a carbon source (based on its pungent smell). If so, you may be doing so-called carbon dosing. Hence, that it is not surprising that you keep NO3 and PO4 so low. I would regard these products as relatively aggressive in keeping nutrients down. So then to come back to the cycle: What ammonia source did the nitrifying bacteria get? Was it part of the sponge power? I somewhat doubt that. In short, I don't know to what degree you built up a healthy colony of nitrifying bacteria by the time you introduced your first organisms.
Then the water changes. These were probably too many and too fast. In a tank that has little competing micro life to start with (you used dry rock / not life rock) AND starved from nutrients (possible carbon dosing + too many water changes) dinos will reign above anything else. When overwhelming they can be toxic for the living creatures in your tank. Are you still dosing zeobak and sponge power? If yes, I would stop that and SLOWLY let your NO3 and PO4 rise a little. I wouldn't dose NO3 and PO4 because your fish poop and leftover fish food will produce more of that stuff than you care for.
At the same time, could you start growing cheato in your sump to take care of nutrient export for when that NO3 and PO4 starts to rise?
Next up the alkalinity swings. They are brutal! What salt are you using? Did I see it correctly that you got 12 dkh after a water change? Are you using Red Sea Coral Pro? That gets you such a high dkh. But for reason's I won't go Into now, I wouldn't use that. Starters are better off with the Red Sea blue bucket and aim for a dkh of 8.0-8.5.
Others should chime in here.
Cheers
Revision: If I understand your posts correctly, then those high Alk spikes are due to dosing, not water changes. In that case you added too much at once. I would advise to track the Alk changes over time and then estimate the daily dkh change. Then use a dosing pump to add that amount on a daily basis, instead of a large correction at once.
Last edited:
thatsruff
Active Member
I also have not seen much effect from food waste from feeding my fish a lot. The best advice I would have for bumping nutrients is to feed corals in the evening. Live phytoplankton especially but also other coral foods as well. That has had a large effect on my phosphates especially. I have begun 'dosing' this in small amounts each evening to keep my nutrients up.
For sure try to get those alk swings in line, you want that to be stable with only gradual changes. Aim for a target and slowly make changes to get where you are aiming.
OP
OP
Christoball
Community Member
Here’s an update on my tank after the mini tank crash. As you might know my battle with the bacteria/algae outbrake and closed/dying corals had me at the brink og shutting it down. I also had a massive die off on live stock. All fish and most og snails are dead....
So, where am i today? First i decided to try and fix the coral problem. I have done, and still do test for ca, mg and kh every day try to dose with my grotech buffer (powder form) acordingly. And it has work! My corals are all puffy and back in shape. I even have gotten seven(!!!!) new polyps on my red acan. So i will continue with this testing and dosing each day.
As for the bacteria problem, most of the people on the reefing internet tells me it is a bacteria caused by the lack of NO3 (1ppm) and PO4 (0ppm). Witch i also do believe it is. I have been adviced to add some bacteria to the tank and i am currently waiting for the Prodibio start up vials to arrive in the mail. I have also been adviced to remove all my filter media, let my skimmer waste go back into the sump and feed heavily. And get fish to produce waste and lastly wait. Wait, wait and wait.
Last week i got two new clown fish. Who now seem happy and activly in my tank. They eat everything i feem them. Pellets, mysis and brine shrimp. Yesterday i bought two more fish and five unknown snails One small bicolor blennie and a tiny hi fin red bandana goby. The goby eats alot, but the both of them need to settle in and find their own rytm in the tank.
The plan for now is as follow:
- feed heavy.
- stop water change.
- stop dosing KZ sponge power and zeoBak.
- dose the Prodibio vials when i get them.
- stop cleaning the tank alltogether (i will clean class).
- let skimmer waste go back into the tank
- wait
- wait
- wait
Here’s a few pictures as of yesterday.
Please let me know if you think i’m on the right or wrong track here. I’m just a beginner who really wants to succeed!!
So, where am i today? First i decided to try and fix the coral problem. I have done, and still do test for ca, mg and kh every day try to dose with my grotech buffer (powder form) acordingly. And it has work! My corals are all puffy and back in shape. I even have gotten seven(!!!!) new polyps on my red acan. So i will continue with this testing and dosing each day.
As for the bacteria problem, most of the people on the reefing internet tells me it is a bacteria caused by the lack of NO3 (1ppm) and PO4 (0ppm). Witch i also do believe it is. I have been adviced to add some bacteria to the tank and i am currently waiting for the Prodibio start up vials to arrive in the mail. I have also been adviced to remove all my filter media, let my skimmer waste go back into the sump and feed heavily. And get fish to produce waste and lastly wait. Wait, wait and wait.
Last week i got two new clown fish. Who now seem happy and activly in my tank. They eat everything i feem them. Pellets, mysis and brine shrimp. Yesterday i bought two more fish and five unknown snails One small bicolor blennie and a tiny hi fin red bandana goby. The goby eats alot, but the both of them need to settle in and find their own rytm in the tank.
The plan for now is as follow:
- feed heavy.
- stop water change.
- stop dosing KZ sponge power and zeoBak.
- dose the Prodibio vials when i get them.
- stop cleaning the tank alltogether (i will clean class).
- let skimmer waste go back into the tank
- wait
- wait
- wait
Here’s a few pictures as of yesterday.
Please let me know if you think i’m on the right or wrong track here. I’m just a beginner who really wants to succeed!!
You are in Norway - it should be easy for you to use a Swedish webshop. Here you can buy KNO3 and KH2PO4. Probably you can buy this from Norwegian sources too - just look for PMDD in shops that have things for aquatic plants. KNO3 can be tricky to get in Norway so you can use NaNO3 too. KNO3 = salpeter in Swedish and NaNO3 is chilesalpeter - I think it is the same in Norwegian. Normally you can find this in the grocery store. For both (it will not be exact r with around 0.5 mg/L.
4.3 g of KH2PO4 in 1000 ml will give a stock solution there 1 ml in 100 L will rise the PO4 concentration with 0.03 mg/L
I´m in the same team as the poster that claims that your nutrient levels is too low
Sincerely Lasse
4.3 g of KH2PO4 in 1000 ml will give a stock solution there 1 ml in 100 L will rise the PO4 concentration with 0.03 mg/L
I´m in the same team as the poster that claims that your nutrient levels is too low
Sincerely Lasse
Koen Vervaeke
Community Member
- Joined
- Jun 5, 2020
- Messages
- 30
- Reaction score
- 19
Are your alk values more steady now?Here’s an update on my tank after the mini tank crash. As you might know my battle with the bacteria/algae outbrake and closed/dying corals had me at the brink og shutting it down. I also had a massive die off on live stock. All fish and most og snails are dead....
So, where am i today? First i decided to try and fix the coral problem. I have done, and still do test for ca, mg and kh every day try to dose with my grotech buffer (powder form) acordingly. And it has work! My corals are all puffy and back in shape. I even have gotten seven(!!!!) new polyps on my red acan. So i will continue with this testing and dosing each day.
As for the bacteria problem, most of the people on the reefing internet tells me it is a bacteria caused by the lack of NO3 (1ppm) and PO4 (0ppm). Witch i also do believe it is. I have been adviced to add some bacteria to the tank and i am currently waiting for the Prodibio start up vials to arrive in the mail. I have also been adviced to remove all my filter media, let my skimmer waste go back into the sump and feed heavily. And get fish to produce waste and lastly wait. Wait, wait and wait.
Last week i got two new clown fish. Who now seem happy and activly in my tank. They eat everything i feem them. Pellets, mysis and brine shrimp. Yesterday i bought two more fish and five unknown snails One small bicolor blennie and a tiny hi fin red bandana goby. The goby eats alot, but the both of them need to settle in and find their own rytm in the tank.
The plan for now is as follow:
- feed heavy.
- stop water change.
- stop dosing KZ sponge power and zeoBak.
- dose the Prodibio vials when i get them.
- stop cleaning the tank alltogether (i will clean class).
- let skimmer waste go back into the tank
- wait
- wait
- wait
Here’s a few pictures as of yesterday.
Please let me know if you think i’m on the right or wrong track here. I’m just a beginner who really wants to succeed!!
OP
OP
Christoball
Community Member
Yes, but not as stable as i want them to. If i can ever beat this algae/bacteria thing i will treat myself with a proper dosing pump.
OP
OP
Christoball
Community Member
Thank you! I will read up on this and ser what i can find.
OP
OP
Christoball
Community Member
Today i got the bacteria in the mail. I was adviced to use this or similar products by a Norwegian facebook reef group and the Norwegian store korallboden.com
I will dose 5 of the 6 recomended vials for a 120-180l tank. Mine is 170l. So i got one of each vial to spare if needed in a week.
Wish me luck!
I will dose 5 of the 6 recomended vials for a 120-180l tank. Mine is 170l. So i got one of each vial to spare if needed in a week.
Wish me luck!
OP
OP
Christoball
Community Member
Much have happened the last ten days! And i pray this positive trend will continue. If you read my previous post you know the uglyness i have been dealing with and i will let the pictures talk for them self!
As you may see from my september parameters, my tank finally start to get the good kind of filthy. Letting the skimmer wast go back into the tank and heavy feeding seem to have helped. Also i added the live bacteria. I think this is the cause of the nitrite levels. I have now turned the skimmer back to normal and feed no more then the fish can eat. All the dinoflagelates looking bacteria is gone, so is the cyano looking slime. (YESSS!!) But i see i got som green hair algae’ish on some parts of the rocks. I added yesterday another blenny (Salarias ramosus) and eight trochus snails to hopefully help with this. Fingers crossed!
As far as KH, MG and CA goes i have tried to keep a strict schedual and test everyday and try to sose my grotech buffer acordingly. (Keep in mind that i might have miss read/messed up the testings some days) I feel i saw a more stead curve when testing, but with the graphs it shows more of a sudden spike. Dont mind me talking nonsens now. It is hard for me to explain this in english! Haha! Anyway. Why my alk spiked so insane much i have no idea, because all i added ro the tank was ca and mg buffer. I also added ca and mg today, so i’ll see tomorrow if it affected my alk.
My next goal for my next payment will be a dosing pump. I’m looking at D-D dosingpumps. Either the h2ocean p4 or h2ocean p4 pro. Any suggestions? And what would be your go to dosing method/product? Oh and i bought this trachyphyllia geoffroyi yesterday
I think this was all major things happening to my tank. I like where this is going. Please feel free to point me in the right direction if you think i have overlooked something or even done something wrong. Thanks for reading.
Christoffer.
I think this was all major things happening to my tank. I like where this is going. Please feel free to point me in the right direction if you think i have overlooked something or even done something wrong. Thanks for reading.
Christoffer.
YaboiNathan
Active Member
Very nice, I like your house as well
OP
OP
Christoball
Community Member
It’s been one month since my last update. And things are going good for me! I realy enjoy reefing again! I’ll make this a short post with some pictures and a video. But first let me tell you i got some new corals and tank mates! I got two small goniopora colonies, eight different zoa morphs and my first sps. A stylophora milka and two montiporas (nedosa and setosa) both witch unfortunatly bleached alot the two first days. I didnt know my light could bleach so fast. Anyway, it’s a lesson learned. I got a young adult bangai cardinal (Pterapogon kauderni) and a tiger pistol shrimp (Alpheus bellulus) i love that the pistol shrimp and goby partneres up real quick!
I have noticed alot of polyp growth on the duncan and acans. Euphyllias seem to have grown alot also with new head on its way the last month. But zoa seem to how «stopped» and i’m not sure. They grew alot previously and even in the ugly stage...? As far as KH, Mg and Ca goes, i feel it is stable enough with the tools i have for the moment, but Mg seem to be dropping alot and fast. I dose with grotech buffer every other day (lazyness), but still i struggle to get it up.
The tank is also getting dirty!! I bought rowaphos this week to use in a filtersock. Even a waterchange this week did no impact on the Po4 after i started using rowaphos. But for now, tank is running smoooooth! Huge contrast from what it was 1-2 months ago.
On a final note, i have a couple of stupid questions.... does my rocks look ok for almost 5 months? i’m starting to get alot of purple spots on the rocks, but for the most they are green. Atleast without lights the rocks are green. Is that normal?
Also i get every other day green algea on the glass and back wall witch i clean (not the back tho). Normal right?
Feel free to comment and/or help me be a better reefer.
Cheers!
Christoffer
I have noticed alot of polyp growth on the duncan and acans. Euphyllias seem to have grown alot also with new head on its way the last month. But zoa seem to how «stopped» and i’m not sure. They grew alot previously and even in the ugly stage...? As far as KH, Mg and Ca goes, i feel it is stable enough with the tools i have for the moment, but Mg seem to be dropping alot and fast. I dose with grotech buffer every other day (lazyness), but still i struggle to get it up.
The tank is also getting dirty!! I bought rowaphos this week to use in a filtersock. Even a waterchange this week did no impact on the Po4 after i started using rowaphos. But for now, tank is running smoooooth! Huge contrast from what it was 1-2 months ago.
On a final note, i have a couple of stupid questions.... does my rocks look ok for almost 5 months? i’m starting to get alot of purple spots on the rocks, but for the most they are green. Atleast without lights the rocks are green. Is that normal?
Also i get every other day green algea on the glass and back wall witch i clean (not the back tho). Normal right?
Feel free to comment and/or help me be a better reefer.
Cheers!
Christoffer
Similar threads
