2 of 4 anemones bleached. Why?

[D. Torres]

Here is the short version. I have 4 anemones in my tank. 2 are doing really good and the other 2 seem to be bleaching out. Why?

Long version (if you're still interested in helping me):
I have 4 anemones. Two are rose bubble tips and they have been doing great for a few months now. The two other I believe I green BTAs. They both had great color at first and now seem to be bleaching out. Why could that be? I can't figure it out since 2 are doing really good and the other 2 aren't. I have a 75 gallon tank and my paramaters are stable. I recently started dosing NOPOX to lower my phosphates because they have been about 0.35ppm and I want them lower, but I can't say that's the cause because they were starting to lose color at least a month before I started. Nothing else has changed. Any suggestions/advice? Please help. I have attached pictures in white light so you are able to see the colors without the blues. And one picture of how the one anemone used to look like.

 

[Amoo]

Do you run carbon?

 

[D. Torres]

Do you run carbon?

The only thing I run as far as chemical filtration is Chemipure Elite.

 

[Amoo]

I'm curious, according to the website Chemipure elite is essentially GAC & GFO with some other magic dust mixed in. Why are you running NoPox for Phosphates? Where and how are you running the Chemipure?

 

[D. Torres]

I'm curious, according to the website Chemipure elite is essentially GAC & GFO with some other magic dust mixed in. Why are you running NoPox for Phosphates? Where and how are you running the Chemipure?

I want my phosphates to drop lower as I have read keeping a lower phosphates is better for coral growth. Chemipure is running in my canister filter. I have an FX6 and a Reef Octopus HOB protein skimmer. Like I mentioned before everything is doing great and growing except those two anemones. I also have a maxima clam as well that has been doing well. I just can't figure out why these two anemones are the way they are. The picture attached is a Jason Fox Jack o lantern that was half the size it is now. So I know my parameters are good for growing coral.

View attachment 20180703_215801.jpg

 

[terri_ann]

I want my phosphates to drop lower as I have read keeping a lower phosphates is better for coral growth. Chemipure is running in my canister filter. I have an FX6 and a Reef Octopus HOB protein skimmer. Like I mentioned before everything is doing great and growing except those two anemones. I also have a maxima clam as well that has been doing well. I just can't figure out why these two anemones are the way they are. The picture attached is a Jason Fox Jack o lantern that was half the size it is now. So I know my parameters are good for growing coral.

View attachment 20180703_215801.jpg

Are all of the Bta's wild, or all aquacultured? There could be a few different reasons...

 

[Amoo]

The reason I'm asking the questions I'm asking is because Nems and Corals require different conditions to strive. If you take a coral from a high Nutrient environment and move it to a low one it can and sometimes does strive, Nems on the other hand often will not.

The picture of the GBTA you posted doesn't look bleached to me it looks like it's trying to die, hence I'm trying to help figure out why. My immediate thought when you have 4 BTAs in a 75 is allelopathy. Last I was aware Carbon really needed to be changed a maximum of monthly to really do a good job and you need a decent amount of it to do so.

You're also not the first person, this week even, to have a struggling anemone after running NoPox. NoPox is simply dosing which leads to bacterial blooms in the tank which help eat away and N&P. I've definitely seen a lot of already meh looking anemones start to look like they're trying to die (I'm guessing due to infection) after people have started running NoPox.

It's also very common for nems to lose color or bleach when you lower your nutrients and I don't know why, but the greens definitely seem more susceptible bleaching than the reds do.

For immediate action I would stop with the NoPox and run some carbon. If that GBTA doesn't start to perk up after a week you may want to consider a round of Cipro for him. Would be best to order it now as at some point you're likely to need it if you plan on keeping nems long term.

 

[terri_ann]

Well said! Your info and insight are correct IMO. If the nems are wild and cultured, that also can be a cause. Lowering nutrients should not hurt the nems as long as it is not done too quickly. Good luck!

 

[D. Torres]

Are all of the Bta's wild, or all aquacultured? There could be a few different reasons...

I'm not sure. They are all from the same LFS, from the same tank.

 

[D. Torres]

The reason I'm asking the questions I'm asking is because Nems and Corals require different conditions to strive. If you take a coral from a high Nutrient environment and move it to a low one it can and sometimes does strive, Nems on the other hand often will not.

The picture of the GBTA you posted doesn't look bleached to me it looks like it's trying to die, hence I'm trying to help figure out why. My immediate thought when you have 4 BTAs in a 75 is allelopathy. Last I was aware Carbon really needed to be changed a maximum of monthly to really do a good job and you need a decent amount of it to do so.

You're also not the first person, this week even, to have a struggling anemone after running NoPox. NoPox is simply dosing which leads to bacterial blooms in the tank which help eat away and N&P. I've definitely seen a lot of already meh looking anemones start to look like they're trying to die (I'm guessing due to infection) after people have started running NoPox.

It's also very common for nems to lose color or bleach when you lower your nutrients and I don't know why, but the greens definitely seem more susceptible bleaching than the reds do.

For immediate action I would stop with the NoPox and run some carbon. If that GBTA doesn't start to perk up after a week you may want to consider a round of Cipro for him. Would be best to order it now as at some point you're likely to need it if you plan on keeping nems long term.

So what are your suggestions to try and save the anemones. Run carbon and stop the NoPoX?

 

[terri_ann]

Yes, both. Depending on how they look(are they looking like they are declining daily?), if possible you might want to consider moving/separating. It's hard to tell at this point. No huge hurry but you need to stay on top of their progress/decline.

 

[Amoo]

So what are your suggestions to try and save the anemones. Run carbon and stop the NoPoX?

For immediate action I would stop with the NoPox and run some carbon. If that GBTA doesn't start to perk up after a week you may want to consider a round of Cipro for him. Would be best to order it now as at some point you're likely to need it if you plan on keeping nems long term.

 

[D. Torres]

@OrionN seems like you are knowledgeable on this subject as well. Can you give me any advice?

 

[OrionN]

I don't use or recommended "cure in a bottle".

If two anemone are doing well and two other are not, it is likely that the two not doing well were injured some how, or infected. I see this when the anemone was exposed to heat during shipment (too much warm pack), or they may be infected.
The only thing you can do is to provide good care for them and hope they recover, or else take them out and treat them with antibiotic. If they continue to decline, and I am in your position, I would treat them with a course of antibiotic.
Good luck.

 

[D. Torres]

I don't use or recommended "cure in a bottle".

If two anemone are doing well and two other are not, it is likely that the two not doing well were injured some how, or infected. I see this when the anemone was exposed to heat during shipment (too much warm pack), or they may be infected.
The only thing you can do is to provide good care for them and hope they recover, or else take them out and treat them with antibiotic. If they continue to decline, and I am in your position, I would treat them with a course of antibiotic.
Good luck.

@OrionN Thank you for your response. Do you recommend as Amoo had recommended to stop NoPoX and run some carbon as well. Also could you point me in the right direction as to how to treat with antibiotics. Thank you in advance.

 

[OrionN]

This was the protocol I wrote back in 3/2013.

Protocol for using antibiotics to treat infected anemones ~Added to 7/30/14
Many anemone keepers know, the collection and shipping process from ocean to local fish store (LFS) is a stressful event. Most host anemones do not survive this process without help, especially H. magnifica and S. gigantea. Other host anemones also have high mortality. Most succumb to infection in the first 4 weeks on arrival to LFS. With help from other anemone keepers at ReefCentral.com Anemones and Clownfish Forum, I have come up with an antibiotic protocol that seems to be successful and drastically improve the initial survival of anemones during this critical time.

The antibiotic choice: Ciprofloxacin (Cipro), a floroquinone antibiotic or Trimethoprim/sulfamethoxazole (Septra) combination antibiotic
There are several reasons I choose these antibiotics. They are broad spectrum antibiotics that should, hopefully, cover most pathogens involved. These antibiotics covered most of the pathogens involved in a saltwater wound infection in humans. This is not to say that pathogen that infected the anemones are the same ones that infected human. However, we have to start somewhere and these two antibiotic are reasonable choices. The other reason for choosing these antibiotic is that they are inexpensive and widely available. Cipro and Septra dissolve well in water and will break down with light exposure in a tank environment. Another antibiotic that can be use is levofloxacin (Levaquin). However, Levaquin is a newer fluroquinone and much more expensive because generic are not available.


Instruction:
The dosage for continuous exposure (not dipping) in a hospital tank is Cipro 250 mg or Septra 160/800 mg per every 10 gal of water. I recommended that anemone be treated in hospital tank. I used a standard 20 gallon (high) tank, power head (PH) , heater, egg crate and possibly an air stone. I also recommended that full light is provide for the anemone to help it recover via photosynthesis. The hospital tank is divide into two compartments by the egg crate. Place the anemone with an inert object (a mug or a medium piece of rock) for it to attach to in one compartment. In the other compartment place the heater, PH and +/-air stone.
Fill the hospital tank half way (10 gal) and added either Septra or Cipro, then added the sick anemone. The hospital tank water needs to be keep stable with respect to temperature and salinity. I recommend that all the water in hospital tank be change daily as the day-time cycle comes to an end. After a water change add antibiotic. The best method to add antibiotic into the hospital tank is to rub the tablet between thumb and index finger in front of the PH until fully dissolved. With reasonable light, it is likely that all or most of the antibiotic will be degraded by the end of the day-time cycle. Adding medication at the begin of the night-time cycle, should give optimal antibiotic exposure for the anemone for most of the 24 hour time period. Adequate circulation, with small PH, is a must. The hospital tank will have a minimal ability to process ammonia, therefore feeding sick anemone is not recommended during treatment process. I do not recommend tapering the dosage of the antibiotic because low level antibiotic treatment is what causes problems and creates resistant strains of bacteria.
Anemones often discharge various substance when they are not well. When the hospital tank water have solid discharge, I recommend removal of these discharge. At any time, if the water of the hospital tank is cloudy, I recommend a 100% water change and new antibiotic added.

Length of treatment:
It is recommended that the anemone is treated for a minimum of 7 days, and at least 3 days after it stops deflating. Early termination of treatment is a mistake that has caused me to loose a few anemones.

Disposal of antibiotic containing water:
There is no special treatment needed for disposing water containing antibiotics. Cipro and Septra will break down quickly with light exposure and will not stay around long in the environment. Short course of antibiotic use like in this protocol should not have significant impact on the environment. It is harmful for the environment if there is a continuous low level antibiotic discharge, but not for short courses like in this protocol . In human usage, these two antibiotics are eliminated unchanged by the kidney, and flushed down the toilet into the sewage system, which is what we are doing with our treatment water. It is unclear if treatment by bleach will do anything to the antibiotic. If you are concerned, store the water and put it under sunlight for a few days then discard.
I clean the hospital tank and all equipments thoroughly include bleaching the full set up in fresh water. Once thoroughly cleaned, the hospital tank can be dry and put into storage until needed.

I will link most of the threads here on RC about the antibiotic treatment of a sick anemone, to this thread. Please feel free to add a link of you own thread to the list. This way we can learn from each other and hopefully do a better job at keeping these beautiful animals alive. I am sure I overlooked a few threads. Please add any other threads as you see fit.

 

[OREGONIC]

I have had a few BTA’s that just never did well from the day I introduced them to my tank and several that have thrived and split and continued to thrive. I just assume with BTA’s not all will surrive when I introduce them to my system. That being said i know @Amoo is one of the top gurus that seems to be summoned when someone has an issue with anemones. He seems extremely knowledgeable when it comes to anemones, just search the forum for issues with anemones and I would guess you will see him giving great advice on at least half the threads.

 

[Amoo]

I have had a few BTA’s that just never did well from the day I introduced them to my tank and several that have thrived and split and continued to thrive. I just assume with BTA’s not all will surrive when I introduce them to my system. That being said i know @Amoo is one of the top gurus that seems to be summoned when someone has an issue with anemones. He seems extremely knowledgeable when it comes to anemones, just search the forum for issues with anemones and I would guess you will see him giving great advice on at least half the threads.

Thanks, if the guy wants a second opinion it's kinda meh to me to be honest, @OrionN and I agree on how to do things and our though processes 99% of the time as it is to begin with. Even our treatment protocol on how we use Cipro are extremely similar with only some minor differences. Both have been proven to work and it's really just a matter of preference as to which one somebody uses. If asked I'm sure he would say the same thing I do, if you're going to have nems you need to run carbon and you need to have cipro on hand as a minimum.