120g butterfly fowlr advice

[Slocke]

How could I forget about the beautiful genicanthus angels? Maybe I can swap out the coral beauty for a pair of these... Would a pair fit in a 120 or should I only go with one? I always see these guys for sale here in my country, can't believe I forgot about them lol.

Can I ask for some wrasse recommendations? Preferably one that won't eat a cleaner shrimp haha I plan to get them too. Wanted the Naoko but I hear they're a little aggro so I'm thinking Bluehead Fairy, Red Head Solon, or a Multicolor Lubbock to go with the Pintail; also is that a Pintail I see below the anthias? Haha. Should I also go with one of these or can I mix them? I really don't want to overcrowd the butterflies haha

Onto the tang & foxface (I'm so sorry if I ask so many questions ). So the Tomini CAN go in a 4ft 120, it's just a matter of aggression with similar shaped fish like the butterflies? And now that you and @littlefoxx are saying that my 120 MIGHT not be the best for a foxface long term, I'm thinking I should just cross it out entirely. Not a loss, I mean they're beautiful fish but imo the butterflies are just... *chef's kiss*

Actually Naoko aren’t that aggressive. Certainly not compared to tangs. Here are the fairies I suggest

 

[Tcook]

Yes. I have a naoko and it is not aggressive. Babi and vivien keep him at bay. Yes you can have a pair of geni’s. I had a watanabe and bellus together and they did well. Wrasses and anthias>>cardinals.

 

[OrangeHunter458]

Look into a starry or a lawnmower blenny. They are great algae eaters!

The starry is on my list! I love their little eyebrows haha they were supposed to be a trio along with the foxface and tang. Foxface is off my list now, maybe I’ll consider them if I’ll ever upgrade.

 

[OrangeHunter458]

Actually Naoko aren’t that aggressive. Certainly not compared to tangs. Here are the fairies I suggest

This is great! So many to choose from.. I can get a pintail, lubbock’s, and exquisite wrasse easily. They can replace the 3 cardinals.

Good to know that the naoko isn’t as aggressive as I thought. I saw Reef Dork’s video on his naoko divebombing other fish but I guess, like every other fish, it all depends on the individual. I’ll put it on the maybe list. Thanks for this

 

[Fishfreak2009]

Skip the foxface and tang in a tank that size with butterflies. Personally I'd keep 3-4 butterflies, lots of smaller wrasses (Halichoeres, Cirrhilabrus, Macropharyngodon, and Pseudojuloides), some cardinals, a clown pair, gobies, tilefish, etc. Look at my 5' 100 gallon build if you want any ideas. It's a tank dedicated to butterflies and wrasses.

 

[OrangeHunter458]

Yes. I have a naoko and it is not aggressive. Babi and vivien keep him at bay. Yes you can have a pair of geni’s. I had a watanabe and bellus together and they did well. Wrasses and anthias>>cardinals.

I like this idea lol the bellus and swallowtail are relatively common here. Lamarck’s too. Gonne have to choose a pair from one of these. Now that the foxface is out I should have more space, even considering ditching the tomini (I just love the orange fin tips lol).

Should I ditch the coral beauty too?

 

[OrangeHunter458]

Skip the foxface and tang in a tank that size with butterflies. Personally I'd keep 3-4 butterflies, lots of smaller wrasses (Halichoeres, Cirrhilabrus, Macropharyngodon, and Pseudojuloides), some cardinals, a clown pair, gobies, tilefish, etc. Look at my 5' 100 gallon build if you want any ideas. It's a tank dedicated to butterflies and wrasses.

Foxface is out, I kinda like the idea of ditching the tang to add one more butterfly to my list… I have lots of cirrhilabrus wrasses on my list now, I’d love to try a macropharyngodon but I’m intimidated haha I’m already a little scared of getting a fathead sunburst anthias cause aren’t they mostly planktivores? They might outcompete each other.

Wait omg it’s you! Haha I’ve been watching your youtube channel for a while now just for that butterfly tank you got! I’m so jealous, you have no idea lol I have the pearlscale and double saddle on my list, how are they? Are they easy to take care of?

I’m really jealous of that pakistan and rhino heniochus! We don’t normally get those two here, gonna have to hunt down some collectors haha. Your tank is what I aim to achieve with mine, I looooove watching your butterflies swim around. Can you tell I’m really in love with butterflyfish? Lol

 

[Fishfreak2009]

Foxface is out, I kinda like the idea of ditching the tang to add one more butterfly to my list… I have lots of cirrhilabrus wrasses on my list now, I’d love to try a macropharyngodon but I’m intimidated haha I’m already a little scared of getting a fathead sunburst anthias cause aren’t they mostly planktivores? They might outcompete each other.

Wait omg it’s you! Haha I’ve been watching your youtube channel for a while now just for that butterfly tank you got! I’m so jealous, you have no idea lol I have the pearlscale and double saddle on my list, how are they? Are they easy to take care of?

I’m really jealous of that pakistan and rhino heniochus! We don’t normally get those two here, gonna have to hunt down some collectors haha. Your tank is what I aim to achieve with mine, I looooove watching your butterflies swim around. Can you tell I’m really in love with butterflyfish? Lol

I ended up losing the Pakistani. No idea why or what happened. The pearlscale, double saddle, and Rhino heniochus are all bulletproof fish if you get initially healthy individuals. All great choices. Lots of other really hardy ones, like Chaetodon auriga, Chaetodon decussatus, Chaetodon lunula, Chaetodon miliaris, Chaetodon punctatofasciatus, etc. I personally have a Chaetodon pelewensis and a new Chaetodon collare (wife's favorite is the pakistani) on my must-have list, and still want to try 1-2 more obligate corallivores once I have an open quarantine and find healthy fish. Particularly looking at Chaetodon baronessa/triangulum, Chaetodon ornatissimus, and Chaetodon lunulatus.

Honestly, butterflies, Leopard wrasses, pencil wrasses, tilefish, the fathead anthias are all pretty similar in why people fail with them. Often times you are buying sick/damaged/skinny fish that never recover. Find a FAT, healthy specimen, properly quarantine, feed them a massive amount of food frequently, and they usually thrive. All of those fish are constantly grazing in the wild, and need to do so to thrive in captivity.

Leopard wrasses have a much better track record now in captivity than they used to, because they tend to be handled better, people give them sand beds, and some sellers even ship them with sand to burrow, though I prefer buying from a LFS that uses a sandbed to let them get established and eating well before purchase. Just skip the super expensive oddball ones like the choati, as they still have a poor track record. The meleagris, ornatus, bipartitus, marisrubri, and moyeri are all relatively hardy, I'd put them right at the same level as a lot of Halichoeres, so long as you find one without a damaged mouth from shipping and isn't skeletal when you buy it.

 

[OrangeHunter458]

I ended up losing the Pakistani. No idea why or what happened. The pearlscale, double saddle, and Rhino heniochus are all bulletproof fish if you get initially healthy individuals. All great choices. Lots of other really hardy ones, like Chaetodon auriga, Chaetodon decussatus, Chaetodon lunula, Chaetodon miliaris, Chaetodon punctatofasciatus, etc. I personally have a Chaetodon pelewensis and a new Chaetodon collare (wife's favorite is the pakistani) on my must-have list, and still want to try 1-2 more obligate corallivores once I have an open quarantine and find healthy fish. Particularly looking at Chaetodon baronessa/triangulum, Chaetodon ornatissimus, and Chaetodon lunulatus.

Honestly, butterflies, Leopard wrasses, pencil wrasses, tilefish, the fathead anthias are all pretty similar in why people fail with them. Often times you are buying sick/damaged/skinny fish that never recover. Find a FAT, healthy specimen, properly quarantine, feed them a massive amount of food frequently, and they usually thrive. All of those fish are constantly grazing in the wild, and need to do so to thrive in captivity.

Leopard wrasses have a much better track record now in captivity than they used to, because they tend to be handled better, people give them sand beds, and some sellers even ship them with sand to burrow, though I prefer buying from a LFS that uses a sandbed to let them get established and eating well before purchase. Just skip the super expensive oddball ones like the choati, as they still have a poor track record. The meleagris, ornatus, bipartitus, marisrubri, and moyeri are all relatively hardy, I'd put them right at the same level as a lot of Halichoeres, so long as you find one without a damaged mouth from shipping and isn't skeletal when you buy it.

I ended up losing the Pakistani. No idea why or what happened. The pearlscale, double saddle, and Rhino heniochus are all bulletproof fish if you get initially healthy individuals. All great choices. Lots of other really hardy ones, like Chaetodon auriga, Chaetodon decussatus, Chaetodon lunula, Chaetodon miliaris, Chaetodon punctatofasciatus, etc. I personally have a Chaetodon pelewensis and a new Chaetodon collare (wife's favorite is the pakistani) on my must-have list, and still want to try 1-2 more obligate corallivores once I have an open quarantine and find healthy fish. Particularly looking at Chaetodon baronessa/triangulum, Chaetodon ornatissimus, and Chaetodon lunulatus.

Honestly, butterflies, Leopard wrasses, pencil wrasses, tilefish, the fathead anthias are all pretty similar in why people fail with them. Often times you are buying sick/damaged/skinny fish that never recover. Find a FAT, healthy specimen, properly quarantine, feed them a massive amount of food frequently, and they usually thrive. All of those fish are constantly grazing in the wild, and need to do so to thrive in captivity.

Leopard wrasses have a much better track record now in captivity than they used to, because they tend to be handled better, people give them sand beds, and some sellers even ship them with sand to burrow, though I prefer buying from a LFS that uses a sandbed to let them get established and eating well before purchase. Just skip the super expensive oddball ones like the choati, as they still have a poor track record. The meleagris, ornatus, bipartitus, marisrubri, and moyeri are all relatively hardy, I'd put them right at the same level as a lot of Halichoeres, so long as you find one without a damaged mouth from shipping and isn't skeletal when you buy it.

Ahh sorry to hear about the collare, poor guy. Writing all this great advice down btw haha good to hear that the pearlscale and double saddle are doing great. I originally wanted the rhino but it’s hard to get here. So many to choose from now that the foxface is gone haha maybe I should ditch the tomini with the pelewensis to replace that orange-y color I wanted from the tang.

Speaking of corallivores, how’s the ornatissimus? Last I watched it was eating prepared food. Funny that, I was also planning on the baronessa/triangulum down the line if I’m ever successful with the easy ones. We get lots here, eating pellets and flakes! Like, I couldn’t believe it haha I’ll try to find the video this wholesaler sent me. Couldn’t tell you if they thrive or not though.

And yeah, gonna have to research the difference between a normal and damaged leopard wrasse mouth if I ever want one, lfs gets lots but it’s 50/50 with leopards here. I see the baronessa/triangulums eating more than the macropharyngodons haha. You’ve given me a little confidence boost now haha I’ll remember this when looking for the butterflies and the anthias.

 

[OrangeHunter458]

This is it! The final(?) fish list. Kicked the foxface and the tang out, wanted to keep the tomini but it might get too overcrowded for it. Coral beauty also had to go to make room for the (hopefully) peaceful bellus angels.

Final(ish) list:

1. Splendid Pintail Fairy Wrasse​
2. Lubbock's Fairy Wrasse​
3. Naoko's Fairy Wrasse​
4. Helfrichi Firefish​
5. Latticed Butterflyfish​
6. Pearlscale Butterflyfish​
7. White Faced Butterflyfish​
8. Double Saddle Butterflyfish​
9. Fathead Sunburst Anthias​
10. Starry Blenny​
11. Bellus Angelfish pair (or just the female, she has better colors)​
12. Royal Gramma​

 

[Fishfreak2009]

This is it! The final(?) fish list. Kicked the foxface and the tang out, wanted to keep the tomini but it might get too overcrowded for it. Coral beauty also had to go to make room for the (hopefully) peaceful bellus angels.

Final(ish) list:

1. Splendid Pintail Fairy Wrasse​
2. Lubbock's Fairy Wrasse​
3. Naoko's Fairy Wrasse​
4. Helfrichi Firefish​
5. Latticed Butterflyfish​
6. Pearlscale Butterflyfish​
7. White Faced Butterflyfish​
8. Double Saddle Butterflyfish​
9. Fathead Sunburst Anthias​
10. Starry Blenny​
11. Bellus Angelfish pair (or just the female, she has better colors)​
12. Royal Gramma​

I like it! If this was mine, I'd still add another Wrasse or 2, sand sleepers like the radiant, yellow coris, or leopards. I'd also add some cardinals, either a pair of banggai or a small group (3-5) of a different species (Ostorhinchus cyanosoma, Zoramia leptacantha, etc). And I wouldn't hesitate to get a goby of some kind for the bottom (one of the sleeper gobies, or a Watchman goby/pistol shrimp combo).

 

[OrangeHunter458]

I like it! If this was mine, I'd still add another Wrasse or 2, sand sleepers like the radiant, yellow coris, or leopards. I'd also add some cardinals, either a pair of banggai or a small group (3-5) of a different species (Ostorhinchus cyanosoma, Zoramia leptacantha, etc). And I wouldn't hesitate to get a goby of some kind for the bottom (one of the sleeper gobies, or a Watchman goby/pistol shrimp combo).

Add MORE fish? I'm not overcrowded yet? So glad I kicked out the big herbivores Don't mind if I do then! I was actually considering a leopard (from one of the hardy ones that you said), maybe if I see one eating at my lfs. Radiant's expert only according to LiveAquaria Maybe some kind of flasher wrasse instead to mix things up. Fairies and Flasher wrasse are safe together, right? Just add at the same time like others do with tangs to avoid aggression?

Would like some activity on the sandbed too, good point. A watchman/pistol shrimp would be cool if their burrow is visible. Are gobies the only bottom dwelling fish or are there others? Time to google! Haha

 

[Fishfreak2009]

Add MORE fish? I'm not overcrowded yet? So glad I kicked out the big herbivores Don't mind if I do then! I was actually considering a leopard (from one of the hardy ones that you said), maybe if I see one eating at my lfs. Radiant's expert only according to LiveAquaria Maybe some kind of flasher wrasse instead to mix things up. Fairies and Flasher wrasse are safe together, right? Just add at the same time like others do with tangs to avoid aggression?

Would like some activity on the sandbed too, good point. A watchman/pistol shrimp would be cool if their burrow is visible. Are gobies the only bottom dwelling fish or are there others? Time to google! Hah

I definitely add more fish than a lot of other people, but I also make sure to overfilter and keep up with water changes. Mandarin dragonets, blennies, lots of neat options for bottom dwellers.

It's certainly not the most colorful fish, but I love my Rhino blenny for unique behavior and bottom movement. I also have an orange spot blenny for algae control, he loves eating diatoms, and I have a Lantern basslet, who hops along the bottom and looks and acts like a tiny grouper. Doesn't bother anything he can't swallow whole, and at 2", that's basically nothing except tiny ornamental shrimp or nano gobies.

If you're doing a deeper sand bed, yellow headed jawfish or Bali tiger jawfish are both awesome options.

 

[OrangeHunter458]

I definitely add more fish than a lot of other people, but I also make sure to overfilter and keep up with water changes. Mandarin dragonets, blennies, lots of neat options for bottom dwellers.

It's certainly not the most colorful fish, but I love my Rhino blenny for unique behavior and bottom movement. I also have an orange spot blenny for algae control, he loves eating diatoms, and I have a Lantern basslet, who hops along the bottom and looks and acts like a tiny grouper. Doesn't bother anything he can't swallow whole, and at 2", that's basically nothing except tiny ornamental shrimp or nano gobies.

If you're doing a deeper sand bed, yellow headed jawfish or Bali tiger jawfish are both awesome options.

Overfilter (but don't bottom out nutrients, right?) and consistent water changes, will definitely write that down. Ohh that orange spot blenny is gorgeous! Might have to kick the starry you have so many unique fish, username checks out, I guess haha. Thanks for all these suggestions. I could talk fish for hours lol.

 

[Fishfreak2009]

Overfilter (but don't bottom out nutrients, right?) and consistent water changes, will definitely write that down. Ohh that orange spot blenny is gorgeous! Might have to kick the starry you have so many unique fish, username checks out, I guess haha. Thanks for all these suggestions. I could talk fish for hours lol.

Hard to bottom out nutrients with a high stock load and heavy feeding

 

[OrangeHunter458]

Hard to bottom out nutrients with a high stock load and heavy feeding

Didn’t think about that haha question about leopard wrasses: do you think I would have more success with locally caught specimens? I was thinking less time in transport, less chances of damage & stress to the fish.

 

[Fishfreak2009]

Didn’t think about that haha question about leopard wrasses: do you think I would have more success with locally caught specimens? I was thinking less time in transport, less chances of damage & stress to the fish.

If you have them locally, then absolutely!

 

[littlefoxx]

I think it looks good! I also second the blenny. Goofy and fun fish! And no clowns??? I couldnt ever not have a clown pair in a tank. I do love clowns

 

[Tcook]

I would dump the firefish. It will likely hide 24/7 in that tank. I like the black-capped basslet over the gramma. Maybe a yellow assessor.

 

[OrangeHunter458]

I think it looks good! I also second the blenny. Goofy and fun fish! And no clowns??? I couldnt ever not have a clown pair in a tank. I do love clowns

I love clowns too but everybody already has one haha I might get a pair but I wouldn’t know when to add them, first in or maybe after the wrasses?