Zoa Spiders, The battle begins.....

[Shultz]

I'll write my thoughts over the coming days/weeks whilst I can still be buggered to keep fighting..... No apologies for spelling or grammar! This thread is also being posted on both side of the pond to hopefully be of use to as many Zoa lovers as poss, so some references might not make sense to some people

Ever since my last shipment from the states I have been slowly losing Zoa's, all new additions have always been dipped from the start (as far as I could swear to) so couldn't work it out??? I blamed an increase in Astrina starfish (some sp. are known to eat corals) & I've been picking them out as/when I've seen them....

So far I would estimate my losses to have cost me around the £400 - $688 of corals & I had just about decided to pull the plug, but something caught my eye some time after lights out the other night! We came in real late from doing something or other & I just happened to shine my torch in the blacked out tank looking for astrinas & something else caught my eye on my prized oranges.... A Zoa spider!!!!!!!!

Luckily for anybody thats had these they don't move when a light is shone on them, so I fished it out using a scalpel, the polyp it had been clinging to had a big hole in the side I knew now what was causing my problem, but how the hell to solve it???? Like most here in the UK I don't run a QT. Luckily I have a great local fish store who has lent me an old tank (thanks Steve!) So the past 2 days I've been setting up the QT & last night started to remove some of my Zoas I dipped them using Seachems Coral dip at its strongest dosage thinking this might be better than just a FW version. I got about a third done & felt a little better. This resulted in 20ish Zoa Spiders....

Once my lights had been out for a while & again checked the main tank, I could see a couple of more which I got out, something at this point made me go do the same to the ones in the QT in the conservatory, to my horror there was a live Zoa Spider in the middle of a dipped one

I removed this rock I started to have a good hunt over it, by the time I'd finished about 15mins later I had another 13 Zoa spiders, not good at all!!! So I proved that Seachems Coral Dip is worthless were Zoa Spiders are concerned...

That brings me to tonight, I decided to set up a strong FW/Lugols dip & do or die.... So 4ltrs of RO heated to tank temp & 6 drops of Lugols plus some pH powder, but I think I added a tad too much of that! I then redipped all the ones from last night, this resulted in another 8 Zoa Spiders, but this time they are all dead after the dip, Result! So I then started to remove others from my main tank & dip/check those, ended up with 15ish Zoa Spiders in total & have done about 50% of my main tank & thats where I am to date....

Will see tomorrow how stressed they got over having 2 dips in 24hrs, fingers crossed I suppose? The main problem I've found is there is very little info relating to these ones that like Zoa's, from what I have read it seems the male holds onto the eggs/little un's for a while, so hopefully I should be able to atleast get rid of them on the Zoa's in my QT, the main tank though may cause more of a problem as I have Zoa's on a rock that can't really be removed/dipped because of its size & it has a nice montipora growing on it which has actually fused about 3 different large pieces of LR together.... So I don't know what to do about this. Also I have no real info on how long I will have to keep these Zoas in a QT before they can be returned to the main tank again???

I'll update this thread as & when I have info I think might be useful to others that might find themselves in the same position.....

Cheers Shelton.

 

[twon8]

sorry to hear that, i've never found more than 2 spiders at a time, that's kind of creepy.

 

[da6d2003]

Wow! That's a bunch of spiders. What size are they?

Good luck and keep us posted.

 

[Shultz]

sorry to hear that, i've never found more than 2 spiders at a time, that's kind of creepy.

I know! can't believe how many there have been so far, will hopefully get the rest all bar the Monti rock into QT tomorrow night after work, just checked the QT & fingers crossed so far I can't see anymore on those dipped....

Wow! That's a bunch of spiders. What size are they?

Good luck and keep us posted.

They range from just over 1mm to about 6mm for the biggest I've seen so far, interestingly I've not found any on the paly's I have?

Hopefully have an update tomorrow evening

Cheers Shelton.

 

[angry gary]

a picture would be great. but is there a picture somewhere on the 'net if you can not get a picture?


gary

 

[jandlms]

What the he!! is a zoa spider????
Anybody have any pics?
jandlms

 

[Wh00pS]

What the he!! is a zoa spider????
Anybody have any pics?
jandlms

You will find a pic of them on Melev's http://melevsreef.com/id/pods.html

Been following this here and the UK forum you use shultz, i use the seachem reefdip as well and now im feeling slightly paranoid that it may have missed something.

 

[Shultz]

Been following this here and the UK forum you use shultz, i use the seachem reefdip as well and now im feeling slightly paranoid that it may have missed something.

It somewhat surprised me that it didn't kill them either! Although I had a fairly bad feeling as I have loads of those mini brittle stars & it wasn't killing those either, whereas the strong FW dip I used lastnight was killing all.... JUst fingers crossed the polyps survived???

Here's my pic of the original 2 I got off the last import I did:

http://www.pbase.com/buzby/image/64875912.jpg

Cheers Shelton.

 

[Mr. Ugly]

I've seen zoa spiders make it past 5 drops of lugols per 8 ounces of tank water. I rely on very close inspection after dipping.

I usually don't get large colonies, but on the rare occasions that I do, I like to frag them up to check for pests and dying sponges, both of which are bad news.

I'm wondering if a strong Interceptor dip would work on the spiders. Seems to do a job on most other crustaceans. I'm talking about 10x the original recommended dosage for redbug treatment. So one pill for ~30 gallons.

 

[Shultz]

Shultz,

Can I use your picture in our encyclopedia on club-zoa. It might help others down the road. Any other pictures would be great too.

Thanks,
Jeremy

Yeap thats fine, a mention I took it would be nice..... If I find anymroe over the coming days I'll try for some more pics

Cheers Shelton.

 

[Azurel]

The problem with the spiders is they lay there eggs in the inside of the polyp. So wouldn't beable to see if the spiders actully laid eggs. Over the last 2 years I have found a few on frags I have gotten and FW dips seem to do the trick. But that will do nothing for the eggs on the inside.

 

[Shultz]

The problem with the spiders is they lay there eggs in the inside of the polyp. So wouldn't beable to see if the spiders actully laid eggs. Over the last 2 years I have found a few on frags I have gotten and FW dips seem to do the trick. But that will do nothing for the eggs on the inside.

Hmmmmmmm, well if this is the case then I'm pretty much buggered From what i can find on the Net about sea spiders it indicated that the male held onto the babies until the were big enough to fend for themselves??? You don't have a link to your information above?

Tonights update:

I have finished dipping the rest I want to, tonights "haul" is 5 Zoa spiders, 3 Astrina Stars & a bristle worm! this was from about 15 zoa's.... So it seems maybe they have their favorites when it comes to dinner?

Just managed to get all I wanted to into the QT, I have some greens on the rock with the Monti & I have decided to try & remove the Monti in as whole a piece as poss & then I will put the rockwork in boiling RO water/scrub it, thus killing everything on it & it can them be started again as LR over time, this is the only way I can see to remove all traces of Zoa's from my tank, but I won't be doing this until the weekend, so if anybody has a better idea in the mean time I'm open to suggestions??

1 or 2 of the Zoa rocks don't look too good today, but they didn't before the dip anyways & if I think they are starting to disintegrate then I think they'll be binned for the sake of the others....

My dead tired atm with long work hours, will hopefully post a couple of pics of both spiders & the QT at the weekend, time allowing.

Cheers Shelton.

 

[weimers75]

Those have got to be the creepiest things I have ever seen

 

[Azurel]

I couldn't find the link Shultz I think it was something from Dr.Ron who used to be on RC......But after looking for the article for days I found a bunch that said what you have found so I would consider what I posted as speculation and I can't find the article to back it up so I wouldn't concern myself with that idea.....If I find I will post it untill then keep up the battle I'm sure you will come out on top......

 

[Shultz]

I couldn't find the link Shultz I think it was something from Dr.Ron who used to be on RC......But after looking for the article for days I found a bunch that said what you have found so I would consider what I posted as speculation and I can't find the article to back it up so I wouldn't concern myself with that idea.....If I find I will post it untill then keep up the battle I'm sure you will come out on top......

Well to back your idea up I got a reply from WetWebMedia suggesting the eggs were laid inside the polyps

Most are still looking fairly stressed so I'm torn on how quickly to dip them all again?? Will post a separate update below.....

Cheers Shelton.

 

[Shultz]

OK here's an update for those still interested......

Lastnight I finally finished removing the last traces of Zoa's (I hope!) from the main tank, have put various bits of LR in boiling water to make sure I've killed off the Zoa's left & any Zoa spiders/eggs that might have been in them. Trust me the smell of cooking LR is not nice Some good news in that I only managed to break my monti into 3 bits as I removed it from the LR, so that the big bit for me & the 2 smaller bits for trade in at my LFS in a couple of weeks

So far most pieces in the QT have atleast some polyps open, but I dumped one tonight that had gone totally black. Did another water change as I'm losing polyps off all rocks & there were a few floating around the QT. Its surprising how quickly Zoa's lose their bright colouring under just a PC lamp, fingers crossed that any that surivive will colour up again once put back in the main tank. I think I have no choice but to add a canister filter of some sort as I can't do daily water changes to keep pulling the crap out

I have decided to leave the tank bear of Zoa's for 4 weeks, this gives me a restock date of boxing day! I am going to redip the all my Zoa's next weekend if they look half healthy to catch anything that might have survived/hatched since the first dip, I'm hoping that I shouldn't have to dip anymore than that as I don't fancy their chances with what I've lost so far

As a side note I've decided once I re-arrange all the rockwork in the main tank that I'm frag my overbearing leather whilst I have move for the frags to settle over a couple of weeks. Will more than likely update again in a few days time, unless something drastic happens......

Cheers Shelton.

 

[MarvinsReef]

still wishing you luck Shelton..

 

[Raptor]

Good luck! Since youre in the UK meds are out. I know they dont use alot of the stuff we here use.
I would suggest dimalin dips. Nasty stuff for molting critters. It doesnt kill them right away.
The next molt they die. Its pretty effective on parasites. ESP anchor worms, and fish lice.

 

[Shultz]

Today is judgement day for me, I'm giving myself 24hrs to step back & decide whether to just say enough is enough. Sounds a bit over the top, but its just how I feel now.....

Basically lastnight after my last update I had another look in the QT after lights out, yeap you guessed it the Zoa spiders were out in force again! picked off another 5 I have to hand it to them these things really are bulletproof, I've given all my Zoa's 2 dips so far & one of those was nigh on nuclear strenght & yet still more of these buggers can be found alive I presume these are coming out of polyps, so really dipping is a waste of time, its a factor of finding them & picking them off to get rid of them?

For me its heartbreaking to see the time & effort I put into this tank just melting away in front of my eyes, this is not even to mention the cost....

I would say out of all the rocks in the QT I have just 4 now that don't look too bad, a dozen or so that look iffy & the rest that don't look good at all, really wondering whether to dump them all & be done with it.

All I can add is I hope none of you big Zoa keepers out there manage to get these in your tank because these are the real deal Zoa killers, nudi's are a walk in the park compared to these.....

My only other thought is to alter my light cycle so that the tank is in darkness a lot earlier so I might dip them & hopefully catch the spiders outside the polyps.... thinking time beckcons.

Cheers Shelton.

 

[Azurel]

Catching and dipping them at night might be the best way to go Shultz....I quite kalking aptisia during the day when the polyps are open, at night the zoas close up and expose the anemones....Makes it much easier to get them.