Zoa long term problem. Need help.
- Thread starter lazy turtle
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OP
OP
If there are or no toxins in the water, it doesn't hurt to use GAC. One variable less.
I’m so sorry I’m late! Let me try to help. So, just so I understand, you’re having problems with your zoas melting, being small, and not opening right?
So small zoas, they do exist. Some zoas are naturally smaller than other zoas and its normal and healthy. Eagle eyes, pikachu, charmander, etc are some of the small zoas. If they are open then they are healthy, don’t worry.
Zoas melting could be a few issues. Water quality and lighting are what I would look at first. You were dosing algae control which bottomed out your nutrients, causing the zoas to close but you’re fixing it now. You said your water change water was yellow, do you know why? Detritus, algae, etc? I don’t think your lighting is an issue, zoas adapt very well to changes in light. Also, you will always have a few zoas that melt randomly. I have around 50 different types of zoas but I’ve had 4-5 melt out of nowhere for seemingly no reason while the rest were healthy. There are even certain zoas that are “melters”, this could be because they’re a cold water species, deepwater, or overly finicky.
Zoas not opening could be anything. A hermit crab walking over it, an asterina star attack, recent dip, acclimating to tank changes, you bumped it accidentally, a fish got too close, the zoa is sick. A closed zoa could be a lot of things.
Zoas disappearing overnight very rapidly is almost definitely a predator. It looks like you’ve identified it as the Asterina starfish and are doing manual removal which is perfect. You dipped and didn’t find any nudibranch or spiders which is also good news.
I see you talk about “little black bugs” can I have a picture of those? They may be harmless amphipods or something more sinister like amphipods that eat/host zoas and may cause them to not open which can eventually lead to death.
overall, it sounds like you struggled with low nutrients and predatory asterina starfish. Low nutrients caused the zoas to close and shrink then the asterinas moved in and were able to kill and eat the weak zoas. You’re fixing the nutrient issue and are removing the asterinas so I think you’ll see major improvements soon!
So small zoas, they do exist. Some zoas are naturally smaller than other zoas and its normal and healthy. Eagle eyes, pikachu, charmander, etc are some of the small zoas. If they are open then they are healthy, don’t worry.
Zoas melting could be a few issues. Water quality and lighting are what I would look at first. You were dosing algae control which bottomed out your nutrients, causing the zoas to close but you’re fixing it now. You said your water change water was yellow, do you know why? Detritus, algae, etc? I don’t think your lighting is an issue, zoas adapt very well to changes in light. Also, you will always have a few zoas that melt randomly. I have around 50 different types of zoas but I’ve had 4-5 melt out of nowhere for seemingly no reason while the rest were healthy. There are even certain zoas that are “melters”, this could be because they’re a cold water species, deepwater, or overly finicky.
Zoas not opening could be anything. A hermit crab walking over it, an asterina star attack, recent dip, acclimating to tank changes, you bumped it accidentally, a fish got too close, the zoa is sick. A closed zoa could be a lot of things.
Zoas disappearing overnight very rapidly is almost definitely a predator. It looks like you’ve identified it as the Asterina starfish and are doing manual removal which is perfect. You dipped and didn’t find any nudibranch or spiders which is also good news.
I see you talk about “little black bugs” can I have a picture of those? They may be harmless amphipods or something more sinister like amphipods that eat/host zoas and may cause them to not open which can eventually lead to death.
overall, it sounds like you struggled with low nutrients and predatory asterina starfish. Low nutrients caused the zoas to close and shrink then the asterinas moved in and were able to kill and eat the weak zoas. You’re fixing the nutrient issue and are removing the asterinas so I think you’ll see major improvements soon!
OP
OP
This zoas what i have was huge before. Only dragon ball was small. Everything else was 3x bigger before.
But it takes about half a year for them to shrink. They have been so small as in the pictures for half a year.
I dip in Furan 2 and see improvement on 2 corals ( king midas and sunny days on the photos ), Coral RX 3 x reccomended dosage improvement on Armor of God( they open up) , brightwell medicoral( iodine dip ) recomended dosage and nothing change.
Algae and detritus from filtration media and bottom of the tank.
OP
OP
Shrink and not growing. They not melt. They just get to small to survive. I have 3 rastas before and i dont know, that i have 5 of them becouse 2 shrink to super small size. Now i have 5 normal polyps. What i notice in the tank that Coraline algae is not growing. I dont know why .
OP
OP
I saw them one time and dip immediately in 3x reccomended dosage of Coral RX. This was so small ( 1 milimeter ), a entirely black oblong worm that has entered the center of the coral. It was slow like a snail but not looking like it( maybe too small )
OP
OP
Okey . I will solve these problems (NO3 , starfish) and if it does not help, I will write in this thread
I was surprised that one coral looked like a crumpled sheet of paper even though I didn't notice any asterines on it.
Meny of my corals looked like crumpled sheet of paper.
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OP
OP
If eny do that i take a photo and post it. I haven't got eny photos right now.
OP
OP
Blue hornet coloured up and open up. King Midas get to normal size i think. I catch 4 asterinas last night and all the corals looked better. I don't know it is from gac or no3 or starfishe's
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From the pics and descriptions, I would say it is a problem with nitrates/phosphates and/or lighting. There is a direct correlation between nitrates and lighting. (a good short read on this and parameters can be found on Lazy Coral Houses website under lighting and parameters).
As for the carbon, I change out a bag in my sump every 2 months. As you noticed, your water cleared up quite a bit. This will allow more light penetration. I run carbon for that reason and just in case any toxins/contaminents were introduced.
Pests......usually easy to spot. If you don't have one. get a magnifying glass to look over your frags for pests and eggs. I check each frag that I get and also when something isn't looking right. Wrasses are great at pest eradication....most pests. I have a Melanarus and a Yellow Corris. They were a bit lazy at first, but stepped up their game with removal of nuisance feather dusters and larger amphipods.
Turkey baster......I use this to blow off my frags to get any detritus or film algae from accumulating between the polyps.
Asterinas.....jury is still out on those. I have hundreds in my 2 tanks and do not believe they target healthy zoas. I feel they are feeding on the film algae that may develop on the mats or when they are dying. I usually have a Harlequin Shrimp to go between tanks, but donated my last one when I ran low on starfish supply and havent found a new one yet. They are the best way to remove Asterinas, but starfish is all the eat, so I donate them to someone else in need when I am done. Beautiful shrimp though to have in a tank.
The "crumpled" zoas you refer to, I have seen this. They appear as if they are being consumed from the inside out. Look for a white worm living within the colony or mat. They kind of look like those single, long stringy hydroids, but ringed and seem to retract into a hole when startled. I am not positive if normal dips kill these, but when I have removed these with tweezers, they are like a rubber band. The end result is the flesh turns pale, the zoa just withers away and polyps break off.
The small, thin zoas I have seen also. Not sure why this occurs, but have had very limited success with them recovering.
I have over a hundred different zoas and have seen almost everything. I have also come to the realisation that not every zoa is going to thrive in my tank so sometimes they will melt on me or just not grow well.
And don't forget, bad things will usually happen quickly, and the remedy will take a while.
Good LUck
As for the carbon, I change out a bag in my sump every 2 months. As you noticed, your water cleared up quite a bit. This will allow more light penetration. I run carbon for that reason and just in case any toxins/contaminents were introduced.
Pests......usually easy to spot. If you don't have one. get a magnifying glass to look over your frags for pests and eggs. I check each frag that I get and also when something isn't looking right. Wrasses are great at pest eradication....most pests. I have a Melanarus and a Yellow Corris. They were a bit lazy at first, but stepped up their game with removal of nuisance feather dusters and larger amphipods.
Turkey baster......I use this to blow off my frags to get any detritus or film algae from accumulating between the polyps.
Asterinas.....jury is still out on those. I have hundreds in my 2 tanks and do not believe they target healthy zoas. I feel they are feeding on the film algae that may develop on the mats or when they are dying. I usually have a Harlequin Shrimp to go between tanks, but donated my last one when I ran low on starfish supply and havent found a new one yet. They are the best way to remove Asterinas, but starfish is all the eat, so I donate them to someone else in need when I am done. Beautiful shrimp though to have in a tank.
The "crumpled" zoas you refer to, I have seen this. They appear as if they are being consumed from the inside out. Look for a white worm living within the colony or mat. They kind of look like those single, long stringy hydroids, but ringed and seem to retract into a hole when startled. I am not positive if normal dips kill these, but when I have removed these with tweezers, they are like a rubber band. The end result is the flesh turns pale, the zoa just withers away and polyps break off.
The small, thin zoas I have seen also. Not sure why this occurs, but have had very limited success with them recovering.
I have over a hundred different zoas and have seen almost everything. I have also come to the realisation that not every zoa is going to thrive in my tank so sometimes they will melt on me or just not grow well.
And don't forget, bad things will usually happen quickly, and the remedy will take a while.
Good LUck
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