would appreciate discussion/advice on high phosphates.

[Ballyhoo]

I would be very thankful for any discussion or information on approaches to deal with high-level of phosphates in a new reef tank. I get so much different information from different sources I get confused. Will the more mature tank be able to deal phosphates better? Mine might be having higher phosphates because I use flakes and pellets to feed my fish, maybe a lot, sometimes twice a day, usually twice a day. Should I just maybe feed a lot less flakes and pellet and increase frozen brine? I purchased a multi reactor and added few tablespoons of Rowa phos for that to circulate the aquarium. I put it in my sump a couple of days ago. But a few weeks ago, my Hanna measured my phosphates as highest .78. massive continual water changes have not really helped the situation get below .40. And sometimes I'm getting values at .22 other times .4. It seems like .4 is the number I'm usually at sometimes a little lower but not really higher than that. I'm wondering if over feeding the fish has done this. also, it's very odd, but when I use a Salifert test, it appears that my phosphates are not not a problem. But I'm not gonna trust Salfert. that test kit I think it's very misleading because I know I have a high phosphates but Salifert every time I use it shows almost no trace of blue. oddly enough, I don't have an issue with algae growth. My rocks are quite clean. There are some dino strains though.
I have not really got a clear answer on how increase phosphates affect coral growth, but my assumption is that fluctuating phosphate levels will negatively impact coral growth. I.e. phosphate swings which maybe I am dealing with. I'm not sure.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I have not really got a clear answer on how increase phosphates affect coral growth, but my assumption is that fluctuating phosphate levels will negatively impact coral growth. I.e. phosphate swings which maybe I am dealing with. I'm not sure.

That’s because there is no simplistic answer, and it may vary from coral to coral.

Some studies show a negative effect at high phosphate, but there are also some very nice tanks with high phosphate. Would those corals grow faster at lower phosphate? Have they just weeded out those more sensitive to phosphate and they died in the past?

No one has a perfect answer.

 

[Uncle99]

Moping up excess phosphate with GFO is the correct thing but I doubt a few spoonfuls of Rowas is going lower it much, unless the tank volume is very small.

 

[Ballyhoo]

Moping up excess phosphate with GFO is the correct thing but I doubt a few spoonfuls of Rowas is going lower it much, unless the tank volume is very small.

I was concerned I didn't want to use too much.
in any case, for a new tank would fluctuating phosphates likely have a bad effect on coral growth? Because I read a lot that they need stability.

 

[Spare time]

If you have dinos, I'd lean towards trusting the salifert

 

[topjimmy]

Water changes aren't going to do much. That's not that high of a number, and gfo should bring it down.

Are you experiencing any issues that you want to lower the number or just because that's what people say?

 

[Ballyhoo]

Water changes aren't going to do much. That's not that high of a number, and gfo should bring it down.

Are you experiencing any issues that you want to lower the number or just because that's what people say?

well, been my first three months I've had about half of my coral die. I think I've had fluctuating parameters which means had a lot to do with it. Maybe I haven't been correct on the lighting. Also, I had an incident where I scrubbed all the algae off the rocks inside the tank and released all that algae and whatever else and killed a lot of coral. So I'm just trying to figure out you know about get my parameter straight so I can grow coral. in checking all my parameters, they all seem within what they're supposed to be except phosphate. That's the only one that's high. Except an ICP test showed stronium slightly low that does not seem as significant as the phosphate

 

[Uncle99]

I was concerned I didn't want to use too much.
in any case, for a new tank would fluctuating phosphates likely have a bad effect on coral growth? Because I read a lot that they need stability.

When reducing phosphate, you need to test every day so you don’t remove all phosphate, just the excess. A good place is .1-.2ppm. Only the Hanna phosphate or phosphorus checker works for me.
Rest can be Salifert, Aquaforest, Nyos,whatever.

You need rock solid stability in all 7 major parameters at all times. Corals depend on this.

You need to test all at least weekly.

 

[topjimmy]

Do you have any fish, snails etc to help with the algae? How long has it been set up?

 

[Ballyhoo]

Well this is concerning. I did add a little bit more media to the reactor and this morning I used the hanna checker. Usually it turns blue I mean the vile with the reagent. It did not turn blue this morning and Hanna showed 00. I unplugged the reactor. Note, I did check before I fed the fish.

 

[exnisstech]

Well this is concerning. I did add a little bit more media to the reactor and this morning I used the hanna checker. Usually it turns blue I mean the vile with the reagent. It did not turn blue this morning and Hanna showed 00. I unplugged the reactor. Note, I did check before I fed the fish.

I was warned not to try and lower phosphate on my new tank with 90% dry rock. The person that made the recommendation had done similar to what you have been doing and also ended up at 0. I started the tank in February and started testing on March. PO4 started at 0.28 and peaked at 0.36 in May and last sunday it was 0.12. I'm glad I just let it settled on it's own. I think too often intervening in a new tank too soon leads to problems. I've started letting them run for at least six months and don't worry about anything but keeping alk and calcium consistent for the corals. JME

 

[Ballyhoo]

I was warned not to try and lower phosphate on my new tank with 90% dry rock. The person that made the recommendation had done similar to what you have been doing and also ended up at 0. I started the tank in February and started testing on March. PO4 started at 0.28 and peaked at 0.36 in May and last sunday it was 0.12. I'm glad I just let it settled on it's own. I think too often intervening in a new tank too soon leads to problems. I've started letting them run for at least six months and don't worry about anything but keeping alk and calcium consistent for the corals. JME

but from .4 to .00 in 24 hours. yeah i agree w too much intervention. Maybe I should not even have had the reactor.
efit
I will unplug the reactor and measure tomorrow. I fed the fish stock so I'm sure that will bring the phosphate up to a higher acute level.. I just don't understand and sometimes maybe tests are not accurate, but certainly the reagent should have had a reaction like turning some blue discoloration. That shows me that there was very low phosphate, the fact that the reagent had no effect on the vial,

 

[exnisstech]

but from .4 to .00 in 24 hours. yeah i agree w too much intervention. Maybe I should not even have had the reactor.

I've had gfo in a reactor strip PO4 very quickly. Not good. After that when I have used it I start with about 1/4 of the recommended amount. I rarely use it these days. My most successful tank ran PO4 0.2 - 0.4 and NO3 15 - 20 and everything thrived. I tend to let the tanks settle in and see where they land as far as numbers. Then I use that as a kind of baseline.
I spent the first few years trying to keep things in the ideal range and found for me the ideal range is different in every tank. Now I let the tank tell me if it needs some attention. It's something I learned from the succesful old timers here.

 

[UMALUM]

My advice would be to let your tanks phosphate find its equilibrium. Once it does this it will be alot easier to manage and or adjust to meet future goals. I've never witnessed adverse effects from phosphate moving around so long as it's kept available. If your rock is clean and you keep a good schedule 0.5 isn't gonna hurt anything while you let things come into their own. Letting the equal action of opposing forces happen without influence will render what you really want to know. Mine seemed to settle at 0.25 and I expect it to be the same as the only change has been the growth of the fish and of course the coral.

 

[Ballyhoo]

My advice would be to let your tanks phosphate find its equilibrium. Once it does this it will be alot easier to manage and or adjust to meet future goals. I've never witnessed adverse effects from phosphate moving around so long as it's kept available. If your rock is clean and you keep a good schedule 0.5 isn't gonna hurt anything while you let things come into their own. Letting the equal action of opposing forces happen without influence will render what you really want to know. Mine seemed to settle at 0.25 and I expect it to be the same as the only change has been the growth of the fish and of course the coral.

well, I guess my issue is I've had a tough first three months with my coral half of which have just not made it. And I guess I'm blaming phosphate. I measure all the parameters and nothing else has been out of parameter. but I will say I think when I started this out and even up until recently, I have been overly aggressive with all the "tonics." I guess you could say that, and using all the different one bottle solutions. I've stopped all that. maybe I'm just not in the coral stage right now and I need to leave my tank alone. Feed the fish. I'm not sure what else to do.

 

[topjimmy]

How long has it been up and running?

 

[VintageReefer]

The first year is tough. And I will tell you. You hit your first three months hard and did not have patience. There are biological process that are forming, settling, phases the new tank goes through that have not completed yet, and you have followed some pretty bad advice. Don’t panic over these numbers. Stop buying things and putting them in the tank. No more corals or fish. Weekly 10% water changes will be fine. Siphon out 10%. Replace with 10% sw. Once a week. That’s all you need at this point. After a few weeks I feel you will see a lot of improvement

And somewhere in month 6-12 you will start to have stability. Algae will come and go. Other things will too. Numbers will be erratic and rise and drop. This is why we keep telling you to slow down in the other threads. This stuff will all happen on it’s own, and it has an impact on the live stock. Making tons of changes, adding and changing livestock, all just complicates things further.

Picture a big wave in a pool. If you do nothing it will eventually become calm on its own. Stop splashing

 

[Ballyhoo]

The first year is tough. And I will tell you. You hit your first three months hard and did not have patience. There are biological process that are forming, settling, phases the new tank goes through that have not completed yet, and you have followed some pretty bad advice. Don’t panic over these numbers. Stop buying things and putting them in the tank. No more corals or fish. Weekly 10% water changes will be fine. Siphon out 10%. Replace with 10% sw. Once a week. That’s all you need at this point. After a few weeks I feel you will see a lot of improvement

And somewhere in month 6-12 you will start to have stability. Algae will come and go. Other things will too. Numbers will be erratic and rise and drop. This is why we keep telling you to slow down in the other threads. This stuff will all happen on it’s own, and it has an impact on the live stock. Making tons of changes, adding and changing livestock, all just complicates things further.

Picture a big wave in a pool. If you do nothing it will eventually become calm on its own. Stop splashing

great advice. i did finally at least temporarily get my phosphate in line, but by using a reactor with Rowe media.
also, an LFS more specializing in coral offered that I could replace my tank water up to 95% with his tank water. He sells his own tank water for a dollar per gallon. The same water he uses for the coral in his shop. IDK.
I would also like to point out, I think most of the coral issues I've had have been from Dino. The stringy material get caught up in the coral. I presume Dino can kill coral. So I was also told by this LFS on who wants or offered to sell me his tank water that I should never have started off with live sand. That live sand should not be sold because when it's bagged, it goes thru all kind of temperature changes and sits around and can collect anaerobic bacteria, and you end up not knowing what you have in your tank. So based on that if I could start over I would've started w dry sand.
but I probably will use post number 17 above as a sticky note for me. That sounds the most reasonable future approach.

 

[Glowurm]

Ill be honest your set up isn't much older than mine and you appear to be "messing" around with it constantly, not sure how you expect to find "stability" when your always meddling.

I mean it might be phosphate, but then again you appear to change things quite often so how would you know if its this or one of the other changes you've made?

And trust me i get the need to tinker; for instance i currently have a large GHA outbreak, but i dont plan to do anything (i have increased my CUC), not going to add chemicals or buy some equipment, ill let it run its course and continue to slowly add corals and fish.

Slow down maybe?

 

[NanoNana]

great advice. i did finally at least temporarily get my phosphate in line, but by using a reactor with Rowe media.
also, an LFS more specializing in coral offered that I could replace my tank water up to 95% with his tank water. He sells his own tank water for a dollar per gallon. The same water he uses for the coral in his shop. IDK.
I would also like to point out, I think most of the coral issues I've had have been from Dino. The stringy material get caught up in the coral. I presume Dino can kill coral. So I was also told by this LFS on who wants or offered to sell me his tank water that I should never have started off with live sand. That live sand should not be sold because when it's bagged, it goes thru all kind of temperature changes and sits around and can collect anaerobic bacteria, and you end up not knowing what you have in your tank. So based on that if I could start over I would've started w dry sand.
but I probably will use post number 17 above as a sticky note for me. That sounds the most reasonable future approach.

Yes. Use VintageReefer’s advice.

Don’t change 90% of your tank water. It isn’t going to help. The only gadget I haven’t seen you mention and honestly probably the only thing I’d say is okay to add then just leave stuff alone is UV. My tank is only 25 gallons and an AIO so I use the plug and play with internal pumps but you have room for some of the larger inline units.
I ran mine 48 hours and it was bye bye dinos and bye bye algae bloom.
But then just let the tank do its thing. Do normal water changes and relax a little.