Why does hair algae sometimes outcompete macroalgae?

[djf91]

My question pertains to what I’ve seen going on in my system and I’d like to try to understand it from a chemistry perspective. My system is about 14 months old and I was able to beat GHA and cyano at about the 10 month mark and was totally free of them for about 3 months. About a month or so ago I connected a refugium and added caulerpa to it. Around this same time I removed my algae turf scrubber from my sump. Now over the past month GHA and cyano have returned to my display.

My hopes were that the Caulerpa would take the place of the turf scrubber. At first the caulerpa did grow a bit but now the refugium has tons of hair algae in it and the caulerpa has stopped growing.

So my question is how/why does the hair algae outcompete the macroalgae on a molecular level. I’ve also tried chaeto in this system and it slowly withered away.

 

[LBReefer]

Following along.

 

[Garf]

My question pertains to what I’ve seen going on in my system and I’d like to try to understand it from a chemistry perspective. My system is about 14 months old and I was able to beat GHA and cyano at about the 10 month mark and was totally free of them for about 3 months. About a month or so ago I connected a refugium and added caulerpa to it. Around this same time I removed my algae turf scrubber from my sump. Now over the past month GHA and cyano have returned to my display.

My hopes were that the Caulerpa would take the place of the turf scrubber. At first the caulerpa did grow a bit but now the refugium has tons of hair algae in it and the caulerpa has stopped growing.

So my question is how/why does the hair algae outcompete the macroalgae on a molecular level. I’ve also tried chaeto in this system and it slowly withered away.

One reason may be that hair algae has a much greater surface area, per volume of mass, allowing more efficient transport of nutrients. Another reason may be that hair algae can be stimulated through the release of chemicals exuded by other algae (and it’s own kind) such as Macroalgae. Another reason may be it tends to put less effort into producing toxins as a herbivore defense than other algae, this makes it more tasty to eat but without herbivores it allows it to grow much faster.

 

[EeyoreIsMySpiritAnimal]

Not trying to pick on semantics, but hair algae IS a type of macroalgae. Your tank seems to be more suited to growing it than other macros, so my question is, why not either restart your algae scrubber or toss a bunch of GHA into your fuge and call it a day?

 

[Garf]

but hair algae IS a type of macroalgae

Yeah, maybe, lol

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

In my experience, dosing iron can help macroalgae outcompete green hair algae.

Someone many years ago suggested it to me for that reason, and it worked in my tank to eliminate gha that was growing on macroalgae in my refugium. I always fused it after that.

If they are in different locations, more light on the macroalgae may also help.

 

[djf91]

One reason may be that hair algae has a much greater surface area, per volume of mass, allowing more efficient transport of nutrients. Another reason may be that hair algae can be stimulated through the release of chemicals exuded by other algae (and it’s own kind) such as Macroalgae. Another reason may be it tends to put less effort into producing toxins as a herbivore defense than other algae, this makes it more tasty to eat but without herbivores it allows it to grow much faster.

Strangely enough my tangs and cleanup crew hate the stuff.

 

[djf91]

Not trying to pick on semantics, but hair algae IS a type of macroalgae. Your tank seems to be more suited to growing it than other macros, so my question is, why not either restart your algae scrubber or toss a bunch of GHA into your fuge and call it a day?

Yes, I hear you on that. I’m just trying to differentiate between nuisance GHA, and our other more complex macros. I have restarted the scrubber as of this past weekend, now waiting for it grow in. What seemed to be the cure (although, not definitive) last time was weekly scrubbing of the rocks in the display along with the algae scrubber. Hair algae has already started growing rampant in the fuge.

 

[djf91]

In my experience, dosing iron can help macroalgae outcompete green hair algae.

Someone many years ago suggested it to me for that reason, and it worked in my tank to eliminate gha that was growing on macroalgae in my refugium. I always fused it after that.

If they are in different locations, more light on the macroalgae may also help.

Thanks Randy, I will give that a try.

I’m also adding more flow to the display. I get a snow storm of detritus when I blow the rocks off bimonthly.

I made a lot of changes at once after I thought my GHA/ cyano issue was cured: added rock to my sump from a friends tank breakdown, added a refugium with Fiji mud, and removed my turfscrubber. I think I may have added chaos to the microbiome, thus allowing nuisance competitors to gain the advantage.

I have been dosing live phyto for the past 2 weeks. My phosphates seem to have dropped a bit along with my nitrates. P= 0.02 from 0.05 and N = 10-15 from 20. I’m not sure if this is from the phyto or GHA

Would carbon dosing be a bad idea?

I’ve beat these before, and I know I’ll eventually beat them again.

 

[Jared Bryant]

Strangely enough my tangs and cleanup crew hate the stuff.

Nothing eats GHA.

 

[Dan_P]

Nothing eats GHA.

Mexican turbos cleaned an entire 75 gallon aquarium full of green hair algae with 1-2 weeks.

There are many, many species of green filamentous algae that are lumped under the category of green hair algae. Maybe there are species that aren’t so readily eaten. Also, once cyanobacteria start growing on any algae, it might not be palatable.

 

[Dan_P]

My question pertains to what I’ve seen going on in my system and I’d like to try to understand it from a chemistry perspective. My system is about 14 months old and I was able to beat GHA and cyano at about the 10 month mark and was totally free of them for about 3 months. About a month or so ago I connected a refugium and added caulerpa to it. Around this same time I removed my algae turf scrubber from my sump. Now over the past month GHA and cyano have returned to my display.

My hopes were that the Caulerpa would take the place of the turf scrubber. At first the caulerpa did grow a bit but now the refugium has tons of hair algae in it and the caulerpa has stopped growing.

So my question is how/why does the hair algae outcompete the macroalgae on a molecular level. I’ve also tried chaeto in this system and it slowly withered away.

When there is heavy algae growth, trace elements can become depleted and this is a death sentence for macro algae like Caulerpa and Chaeto. This might be the case in your system. Also, happily growing macro algae is unlikely to eliminate hair algae.

Filamentous algae, of which there are many species, is an opportunist. It can grow quickly under conditions where macro algae grows slowly. In fact it seems to grow quickly under all conditions. Physical removal by the aquarist or snails might be the only sure “cure”.

 

[djf91]

Mexican turbos cleaned an entire 75 gallon aquarium full of green hair algae with 1-2 weeks.

There are many, many species of green filamentous algae that are lumped under the category of green hair algae. Maybe there are species that aren’t so readily eaten. Also, once cyanobacteria start growing on any algae, it might not be palatable.

I can certainly agree with this. I think there are many species, and then there’s also Lyngbya that looks similar too. My first round of this hair algae months ago caused the death of many snails I do believe. They were dropping dead like flies.

 

[djf91]

When there is heavy algae growth, trace elements can become depleted and this is a death sentence for macro algae like Caulerpa and Chaeto. This might be the case in your system. Also, happily growing macro algae is unlikely to eliminate hair algae.

Filamentous algae, of which there are many species, is an opportunist. It can grow quickly under conditions where macro algae grows slowly. In fact it seems to grow quickly under all conditions. Physical removal by the aquarist or snails might be the only sure “cure”.

This stuff is really tough to get rid of and collects detritus at its roots. I think you’re right that it’ll take constant scrubbing in the display, and competition from the turf scrubber.

 

[Dan_P]

This stuff is really tough to get rid of and collects detritus at its roots. I think you’re right that it’ll take constant scrubbing in the display, and competition from the turf scrubber.

@taricha and I noted that some or all filamentous algae seem to be detritus traps that become complex communities of organisms and maybe a constant source of nitrogen, phosphate, vitamins and and trace elements. Taking away this food source by scrubbing would make life harder for this algae.

 

[Jared Bryant]

Mexican turbos cleaned an entire 75 gallon aquarium full of green hair algae with 1-2 weeks.

There are many, many species of green filamentous algae that are lumped under the category of green hair algae. Maybe there are species that aren’t so readily eaten. Also, once cyanobacteria start growing on any algae, it might not be palatable.

I completely disagree. I have snails in my tanks but they have never made a dent in hair algae. They will help but they cannot take care of it on their own. Too many variables with causation/correlation to say 100% they ate all the hair algae.

 

[djf91]

@taricha and I noted that some or all filamentous algae seem to be detritus traps that become complex communities of organisms and maybe a constant source of nitrogen, phosphate, vitamins and and trace elements. Taking away this food source by scrubbing would make life harder for this algae.

I plan to blow the heck out of it with a couple of new MP60s

 

[AwakenedReefer]

Nothing eats GHA.

Idk probably depends on how hungry they are. 2 of my 3 blue legs will climb the back glass for days at a time to get to it. Every few days I try to scrape algae growing from the filter outlet so the emerald crab can catch it in the water column.

They are all in a 7G and I don’t feed anything but the corals so they are probably running on E and want anything they can get.

 

[djf91]

It’s either the fact that some species of GHA are palatable, while others are not….or something else.

My first bloom of hair algae at the one month mark was absolutely obliterated in a week by my hippo tang and lawnmower blenny. This was a 500 gallon display covered in it and they eliminated all of it. This did however look lighter green in color and was less dense in growth. The GHA I have growing now is dark green and thick and the fish will catch it in the water column and immediately spit it out.

 

[djf91]

@Dan_P @taricha
What do you think is going on by scrubbing the algae off the rocks? Am I irritating it enough and these algae don’t like physical disturbance? Am I allowing for bacteria/ corraline to move in and take over?

Why does an algae scrubber with hair algae outcompete hair algae in the display? Is it absorbing trace elements that the hair algae in the display need?