Where do our coral come from?

[ScottR]

That is incredibly interesting. How big of boxes are you able to get? Are the pieces usually in pretty good health when they arrive? I imagine you wouldn't be getting a 14 day arrive alive stay alive guarantee in this case

The bigger farms allow you to claim back up to a certain percentage of DOA. But they usually arrive healthy. There are losses of course.

 

[Badilac]

Ok fine, 98% of them are wild

Glad you took that with good attitude as I was just trying to be funny with my reply. Yes its not super common but Ryan (guy in the vids) frags them a bunch. He has mentioned in some videos how long it takes them to grow out but I cant remember of the top of my head. I also do realize you said you "think". thanks for realizing I wasn't trying to be a jerk.

 

[SAWFISH]

The bigger farms allow you to claim back up to a certain percentage of DOA. But they usually arrive healthy. There are losses of course.
View attachment 1762418

Holy cow, that is one heck of a coral order! I am envious. It would be amazing if aquaculture facilities could regularly grow corals to this size at a quantity large enough to sustain the hobby!

Awesome picture thanks for sharing!

 

[Paul B]

This was printed in 1997, I am sure it is changed now.

INTERNATIONAL CORAL TRADE: THE BIG EXPORTERS AND IMPORTERS Exporters: • In 1997, according to CITES data (of permitted exports), the major exporters of live coral were Indonesia (71%), Fiji (12%), and Solomon Islands (6%). The major exporters of live rock were Fiji (89% by weight) and Indonesia (74% by piece). • Major exporters of worked precious coral for curios and jewelry include Hong Kong, Korea and Taiwan. Importers: • According to CITES, the United States is the largest importer of live coral and reef rock, bringing in more than 80% of the livecoral trade (more than 400,000 pieces a year) and more than half of the marine aquarium fish sold worldwide. • Other major importers of coral products are Germany, France, the Netherlands, the United Kingdom, Japan and Canada.

HOW MUCH IS BEING HARVESTED FOR INTERNATIONAL TRADE? • According to the CITES database, in 1996, permitted coral exports produced 2.5 million pieces of live coral, 739 tons (670,000 kg) of raw coral, and 31,000 colonies of black coral. • About 3,000 tons (2,721,600 kg) of coral enter international trade each year for use in aquariums, according to the Ornamental Aquatic Trade Association. • CITES reported 19,262 tons (17,474,486 kg) of black corals were imported into 70 nations from 1982-1997. CURRENT POLICIES ON INTERNATIONAL TRADE OF CORAL There is strong international concern that some coral reef species are threatened or may become threatened through trade. The Convention on International Trade in Endangered Species of Wild Fauna and Flora (CITES) is the main instrument to monitor and regulate the international trade of wildlife.

Reef species listed under CITES include 2,000 species of hard corals, black coral, giant clams, queen conch, seahorses and sea turtles. Its mandate is to protect species from overexploitation from international trade. CITES protects corals with two levels of protection: • Appendix I includes species threatened with extinction. Trade in specimens of these species is permitted only in exceptional circumstances. • Appendix II includes species that may be impacted if trade is not controlled. Species in Appendix II are supposed to be regulated with permits for importers and exporters.

 

[ReefHomieJon]

Just as a general note, i would not be bragging about breaking international laws designed to protect endangered ecosystems. Not cool and also incredibly stupid. You never know when somone has an old friend that works for the customs office as a wildlife violation investigator. One coral or a box of corals, they take it VERY seriously.

Lol the locals take that stuff out the water all day. I’ll just let that stupid comment go since we’re just online go ahead and tell your investigator homies that they have a big lead on a 1” coral frag smuggling ring. A job well done if they caught me! (Maybe they should go a little harder against global warming since in a few years all the oceans reefs will be dead anyway?)
gtfoh

 

[SAWFISH]

Lol the locals take that stuff out the water all day. I’ll just let that stupid comment go since we’re just online go ahead and tell your investigator homies that they have a big lead on a 1” coral frag smuggling ring. A job well done if they caught me! (Maybe they should go a little harder against global warming since in a few years all the oceans reefs will be dead anyway?)
gtfoh

I imagine the locals depend on the corals for their livelihood and hopefully would have proper certifications to take things from the reef. If everyone were to just take from the reef whenever the please it would quickly become decimated. That alone should be a reason not to take from the reefs.

Beyond this I would like to see a peer reviewed study that says all reefs will be gone in 3 years. We are making tremendous strides in renewable energy sources and other measures to combat global warming which are quickly becoming economically viable. There is certainly still reason to have hope that coral reefs will be conserved and we should treat them as such. Even if we were not taking these strides and the reefs were certainly doomed, that is not a valid excuse to say it no longer matters if we are performing unsustainable practices on reefs.

We can also do two things at once. We can encourage sustainable collection practices while also working to curb global warming. It is not one or the other

 

[footgal]

Lol the locals take that stuff out the water all day. I’ll just let that stupid comment go since we’re just online go ahead and tell your investigator homies that they have a big lead on a 1” coral frag smuggling ring. A job well done if they caught me! (Maybe they should go a little harder against global warming since in a few years all the oceans reefs will be dead anyway?)
gtfoh

Hey. I don’t think what you did was right but the other guy’s response was a little extreme as well. I’m not gonna yell at you for taking the piece that you did because what’s done is done. But please stop doing that, I don’t think you by yourself are a danger to the reef but if people copy you then that could lead to a real issue, plus it’s illegal and if you’re caught there are real and very bad consequences. Please just be nice to each other, and I bet the lfs around there probably have a sampling of the local corals.

 

[SAWFISH]

This was printed in 1997, I am sure it is changed now.

INTERNATIONAL CORAL TRADE: THE BIG EXPORTERS AND IMPORTERS Exporters: • In 1997, according to CITES data (of permitted exports), the major exporters of live coral were Indonesia (71%), Fiji (12%), and Solomon Islands (6%). The major exporters of live rock were Fiji (89% by weight) and Indonesia (74% by piece). • Major exporters of worked precious coral for curios and jewelry include Hong Kong, Korea and Taiwan. Importers: • According to CITES, the United States is the largest importer of live coral and reef rock, bringing in more than 80% of the livecoral trade (more than 400,000 pieces a year) and more than half of the marine aquarium fish sold worldwide. • Other major importers of coral products are Germany, France, the Netherlands, the United Kingdom, Japan and Canada.

HOW MUCH IS BEING HARVESTED FOR INTERNATIONAL TRADE? • According to the CITES database, in 1996, permitted coral exports produced 2.5 million pieces of live coral, 739 tons (670,000 kg) of raw coral, and 31,000 colonies of black coral. • About 3,000 tons (2,721,600 kg) of coral enter international trade each year for use in aquariums, according to the Ornamental Aquatic Trade Association. • CITES reported 19,262 tons (17,474,486 kg) of black corals were imported into 70 nations from 1982-1997. CURRENT POLICIES ON INTERNATIONAL TRADE OF CORAL There is strong international concern that some coral reef species are threatened or may become threatened through trade. The Convention on International Trade in Endangered Species of Wild Fauna and Flora (CITES) is the main instrument to monitor and regulate the international trade of wildlife.

Reef species listed under CITES include 2,000 species of hard corals, black coral, giant clams, queen conch, seahorses and sea turtles. Its mandate is to protect species from overexploitation from international trade. CITES protects corals with two levels of protection: • Appendix I includes species threatened with extinction. Trade in specimens of these species is permitted only in exceptional circumstances. • Appendix II includes species that may be impacted if trade is not controlled. Species in Appendix II are supposed to be regulated with permits for importers and exporters.

Paul thank you for this information. Even though it is definitely quite dated it is incredibly interesting to take a look at. Do you by chance have a link to this information or have any knowledge if CITES has done any more recent work in this area. It would be awesome to see if the hobby has been continually taking more or less wild specimens from the oceans. Such a study could also potentially tell us a little bit more about how the hobby has grown in the last 20 something years. At least in the case that coral harvesting had grown I think it would be safe to say the hobby base has grown. In the event that the harvesting had decreased though it would probably be hard to determine if this was due to increases mariculture and aquaculture practices or due to hobby shrinkage

 

[SAWFISH]

Hey. I don’t think what you did was right but the other guy’s response was a little extreme as well. I’m not gonna yell at you for taking the piece that you did because what’s done is done. But please stop doing that, I don’t think you by yourself are a danger to the reef but if people copy you then that could lead to a real issue, plus it’s illegal and if you’re caught there are real and very bad consequences. Please just be nice to each other, and I bet the lfs around there probably have a sampling of the local corals.

I tend to agree with this. At the end of the day a one inch frag won't make a difference in the grand scheme of things. But we should not be encouraging or normalizing this type of harvesting in the hobby as if everyone did it, it would lead the hobby to have a bad name and probably damage wild ecosystems. Both of which would have negative consequences for hobbyists

 

[ReefHomieJon]

Hey. I don’t think what you did was right but the other guy’s response was a little extreme as well. I’m not gonna yell at you for taking the piece that you did because what’s done is done. But please stop doing that, I don’t think you by yourself are a danger to the reef but if people copy you then that could lead to a real issue, plus it’s illegal and if you’re caught there are real and very bad consequences. Please just be nice to each other, and I bet the lfs around there probably have a sampling of the local corals.

Ok I’m sorry

 

[Fishko]

I mean most if not all scolys are wild caught

 

[Badilac]

I mean most if not all scolys are wild caught

Most yes. All no. please read above post. One person I know frags them all the time.

 

[footgal]

Most yes. All no. please read above post. One person I know frags them all the time.

I’m terrified to frag mine, but if one of my LFS did it regularly I would be happy to allow them to frag my scoly. So I would keep 1-2 pieces for myself to re grow and sell but I’d give the store the rest for store credit. I’m glad we found a way to frag them, but to me the pie method is weird because as a hobbyist, I’m looking for a scoly that’s perfectly round and fat, and a pie cut does not fit that and it would make me worry about it getting infected and dying. I hope that fragging becomes more prevalent. This way hobbyists can have cooler scolies without getting overdraft fees (as a master frag would be cheaper than a full master scoly) and we would be putting much less stress on the wild populations. I’m all for fragging my scoly, I just wish I could find someone willing to do it.

 

[samnaz]

It would be really nice if more coral vendors would state where their livestock came from, or at the very least whether or not it was tank grown. Some do disclose such information, for example tidal gardens, others leave it up to the consumer to guess.

For some corals it’s pretty safe to assume they were tank raised just based on their appearance and how quickly or easily they grow in captivity. Other slow growing and delicate corals or those that are prone to disease/infections are rarely tank raised, because they simply aren’t worth the risk or time etc.

I have bought corals in the past either knowingly wild caught or based on assumption. However, I’ve since committed to tank raised livestock if at all possible. Always happy to pay more for it, imo it is worth it in the end.

Here’s an interesting video explaining some of the corals that Than cannot aquaculture. I think a lot of the points he makes are true for livestock vendors in general.

 

[Opus]

No, INDO is allowed to ship wild corals still.

this article talks a bit about how things are over there right now

The Indonesian Coral Trade is Business As Usual | Reef Builders | The Reef and Saltwater Aquarium Blog

We all know now, that after mariculture corals were re-opened at the beginning of the year, wild coral collection was also re-opened right after. We can now enjoy a complete supply of corals from…

reefbuilders.com

Thanks for the correction. I haven't really paid attention since they reopened. Do you happen to know what has happened to Australia? I used to see several vendors posting about big Australian orders coming in (even before Indo shut down) and I haven't seen anything like that in months. Did the rush of everyone wanting Indo corals slow down Australian imports?

 

[GlassMunky]

Thanks for the correction. I haven't really paid attention since they reopened. Do you happen to know what has happened to Australia? I used to see several vendors posting about big Australian orders coming in (even before Indo shut down) and I haven't seen anything like that in months. Did the rush of everyone wanting Indo corals slow down Australian imports?

I’m not sure, but I know @tsm corals gets in BIG Aussy coral orders on a somewhat regular basis. They have some really nice large colonies available

 

[Opus]

Thanks for the article, it was a great read. Along the lines of the article it would be really cool to see how many jobs are created around the world from the hobby and what percent of our money ends up in each carious country. Hopefully as the article says Indo will continue to move towards marculture

Dr. Mac has some good reading in his blogs.

The Adventures of Dr. Mac

pacificeastaquaculture.com

 

[Opus]

I’m not sure, but I know @tsm corals gets in BIG Aussy coral orders on a somewhat regular basis. They have some really nice large colonies available

Maybe they are coming in and just not being pushed as much since everyone is Indo crazy right now. I know the lfs I frequent hasn't been getting in any Aussie stuff and half their LPS used to be Aussie.

 

[Paul B]

Cyanide caught fish from National Geographic

The Horrific Way Fish Are Caught for Your Aquarium—With Cyanide

Up to 90 percent of tropical aquarium fish imported to the U.S. are caught using cyanide. A new petition is calling for the government to crack down.

www.nationalgeographic.com

 

[SAWFISH]

It would be really nice if more coral vendors would state where their livestock came from, or at the very least whether or not it was tank grown. Some do disclose such information, for example tidal gardens, others leave it up to the consumer to guess.

For some corals it’s pretty safe to assume they were tank raised just based on their appearance and how quickly or easily they grow in captivity. Other slow growing and delicate corals or those that are prone to disease/infections are rarely tank raised, because they simply aren’t worth the risk or time etc.

I have bought corals in the past either knowingly wild caught or based on assumption. However, I’ve since committed to tank raised livestock if at all possible. Always happy to pay more for it, imo it is worth it in the end.

Here’s an interesting video explaining some of the corals that Than cannot aquaculture. I think a lot of the points he makes are true for livestock vendors in general.

I agree it would be great to see some of the popular names in the hobby listing each specific coral as mariculture, aquaculture, or wild caught. It would give hobbyists different options and might also help hobbyists to understand differences in prices between different vendors.