When to pull all fish for a first time hospital/quarantining? flukes,ich,velvet or all?

blazin'reefer

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Hi i recently added a maroon clown to my 55 display without quarantine (I now know how dumb that was) and he never started eatting, would spit all food out for over a week so i eventually moved him to my 3g aio but it was too late and had no idea what he had and he died slowly. Fast forward about a month later now and my display after never having symptoms of any disease for atleast a year or 2 now i am having a ton of symptoms. It first started with brownish black spots on my mimic tang, flashing and head shaking so i dosed prazi twice at 80% a week apart doing the water changes but things didnt really improve so i just tried a second round of prazi at 100% (just finished first dose a couple or few days ago was dosed on the 24th at midnight my time) but there are still all the same symptoms so i cant decide if i should do a 4th dose in a few days still or not since its not really helping. The real problem tho is now i am seeing white spots on the talbot damsels fins pretty bad, some on the tangs fins and also on the green clown goby that i also recently moved to the 3g and 2 of my fish the talbot and mimic (the ones with the visible symptoms) are both swimming into the flow constantly too. I dont know if i have flukes, ich, or velvet or all 3 and how i would get them all from one clown with no visible problems other than refusing to eat and starving himself. I have never done qt or hospital tanks before but i do have a 25 or 30 cube i just water tested that i guess i could maybe use alsong as it doesnt start leaking or burst but i dont know if i should pull all fish at this time and cram them into it for a couple months and either try hypo (dont have calibration fluid for my refractomer currently so would need to get some) or copper which i dont have currently and am planning on ordering copper power the blue stuff dosing to exact water volume and api test using sunlight to verify if i do need to (i know hanna is way better but i cant really justify like almost $100 for a test i would rarely use at this time) but i am also from canada so will take some time to get any meds shipped here from the US. For someone in my shoes who has never treated and doesnt know what they have going on exactly what is the best cost friendly way of trying to save them? should a beginner in treating fish take the plunge and pull all or just try to manage whatever it is all fish have and if they do all die then replace them in a few months after leaving the tank fallow? what would be better for all the fish? List of current fish and symptoms: Talbot Damsel- white specs on fins and possibly body but hard to see, swimming in flow most of the time, only eatting sometimes, sort of pale looking. Chocolate Mimic Tang- started with brown/black spots which mostly seem gone but now has white specs on fins, still flashing body against sand, still shaking head erratic while swimming and still swimming into flow at night, also constantly near the coral banded shrimp trying to get help. Was sitting still pressed against a rock when i was doing some cleaning earlier before i do a waterchange too. Also slightly supressed appetite too but still eats a lot. Green Clown Goby- started with dots with long stringy mucous sheets on them, did a hydrogen peroxide dip and moved him to the 3g where i have dosed metro every 48h the last 4 days. mucous sheets are gone but large white dots still remain. I think it is ich due to its appearance now. Lemon Damsel- twitching head a ton during prazi and flashing, a symptomatic currently springeri damsel- same as lemon, a symptomatic currently yellow tail damsel- same as lemon, a symptomatic currently watchman goby- a symptomatic current other than a messed up jaw thats been like that for a year.
 

vetteguy53081

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Hi i recently added a maroon clown to my 55 display without quarantine (I now know how dumb that was) and he never started eatting, would spit all food out for over a week so i eventually moved him to my 3g aio but it was too late and had no idea what he had and he died slowly. Fast forward about a month later now and my display after never having symptoms of any disease for atleast a year or 2 now i am having a ton of symptoms. It first started with brownish black spots on my mimic tang, flashing and head shaking so i dosed prazi twice at 80% a week apart doing the water changes but things didnt really improve so i just tried a second round of prazi at 100% (just finished first dose a couple or few days ago was dosed on the 24th at midnight my time) but there are still all the same symptoms so i cant decide if i should do a 4th dose in a few days still or not since its not really helping. The real problem tho is now i am seeing white spots on the talbot damsels fins pretty bad, some on the tangs fins and also on the green clown goby that i also recently moved to the 3g and 2 of my fish the talbot and mimic (the ones with the visible symptoms) are both swimming into the flow constantly too. I dont know if i have flukes, ich, or velvet or all 3 and how i would get them all from one clown with no visible problems other than refusing to eat and starving himself. I have never done qt or hospital tanks before but i do have a 25 or 30 cube i just water tested that i guess i could maybe use alsong as it doesnt start leaking or burst but i dont know if i should pull all fish at this time and cram them into it for a couple months and either try hypo (dont have calibration fluid for my refractomer currently so would need to get some) or copper which i dont have currently and am planning on ordering copper power the blue stuff dosing to exact water volume and api test using sunlight to verify if i do need to (i know hanna is way better but i cant really justify like almost $100 for a test i would rarely use at this time) but i am also from canada so will take some time to get any meds shipped here from the US. For someone in my shoes who has never treated and doesnt know what they have going on exactly what is the best cost friendly way of trying to save them? should a beginner in treating fish take the plunge and pull all or just try to manage whatever it is all fish have and if they do all die then replace them in a few months after leaving the tank fallow? what would be better for all the fish? List of current fish and symptoms: Talbot Damsel- white specs on fins and possibly body but hard to see, swimming in flow most of the time, only eatting sometimes, sort of pale looking. Chocolate Mimic Tang- started with brown/black spots which mostly seem gone but now has white specs on fins, still flashing body against sand, still shaking head erratic while swimming and still swimming into flow at night, also constantly near the coral banded shrimp trying to get help. Was sitting still pressed against a rock when i was doing some cleaning earlier before i do a waterchange too. Also slightly supressed appetite too but still eats a lot. Green Clown Goby- started with dots with long stringy mucous sheets on them, did a hydrogen peroxide dip and moved him to the 3g where i have dosed metro every 48h the last 4 days. mucous sheets are gone but large white dots still remain. I think it is ich due to its appearance now. Lemon Damsel- twitching head a ton during prazi and flashing, a symptomatic currently springeri damsel- same as lemon, a symptomatic currently yellow tail damsel- same as lemon, a symptomatic currently watchman goby- a symptomatic current other than a messed up jaw thats been like that for a year.
Both point to worms ( flukes and black ich which are also worms) and PraziPro may be best treatment but please provide video of at least 25 secs and/or pics under white light intensity for best assessment
 
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Jay Hemdal

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This case is being handled in another thread. While I have not been able to pin down the issue, it is not without a lack of trying:


Jay
 
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blazin'reefer

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yes @Jay Hemdal and @vetteguy53081 have been helping me a ton in the other thread already and really trying with this by answering all my questions and giving me info, which i absolutely do appreciate a lot.

Just thought since we havent been able to nail it down forsure yet i would make another thread kinda to bump the question based on the current problem to try and get some more reefers opinions aswell, hope that is not something im not suppose to do.

Definitely not trying to clog up the threads or show any disrespect to the info ive already gotten or anything like that. I would be absolutely lost without it. The only reason i am even considering pulling the fish at all is all based on jays help. Just looking for more info on pulling fish and putting them into a small box and experiences people have had, when its time forsure and opinions on what disease or diseases i could be facing since i have never dealt with this at all and am having so many symptoms. Plus the other thread was getting long and kinda off topic to the title since it was about the maroon which is now deceased. I was thinking that most people were likely just skipping over it after seeing the clown was dead and not reading threw the entire thread other than jay and vette and a few others.
 
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yes @Jay Hemdal and @vetteguy53081 have been helping me a ton in the other thread already and really trying with this by answering my questions, which i absolutely do appreciate a lot.

Just thought since we havent been able to nail it down forsure yet i would make another thread kinda to bump the question based on the current problem to try and get some more reefers opinions aswell, hope that is not something im not suppose to do.

Definitely not trying to clog up the threads or show any disrespect to the info ive already gotten or anything like that. I would be absolutely lost without it. The only reason i am even considering pulling the fish at all is all based on jays help. Just looking for more info on pulling fish and putting them into a small box and experiences people have had, when its time forsure and opinions on what disease or diseases i could be facing since i have never dealt with this at all and am having so many symptoms. Plus the other thread was getting long and kinda off topic to the title since it was about the maroon which is now deceased. I was thinking that most people were likely just skipping over it after seeing the clown was dead and not reading threw the entire thread other than jay and vette and a few others.
As mentioned, fish looked weak and moribund
Acclimation boxes prove valuable before releasing a given fish and subjecting them to aggression allowing others to get acquainted with them
 
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blazin'reefer

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As mentioned, fish looked weak and moribund
Acclimation boxes prove valuable before releasing a given fish and subjecting them to aggression allowing others to get acquainted with them
the maroon? yeah hes long gone now unfortunately, but yes i plan on quarantining all new fish in the future if this 25 or 30 tank continues to hold water safely to atleast see that they seem healthy and possibly pre-empively treat too not sure.

thanks for the suggestion man, I will also look into getting a cheap acclimation box in the future because thats a really good idea too after others are already established.

still trying to figure out what to do with my current sick fish tho given all the symptoms still after 2 80% prazi doses and then the 1 at 100% maybe even 110% just like 4 days ago and still a bunch of symptoms but now white dots on fins too. Maybe its still from the strong prazi dose a few days ago but starting to concern me its ich or velvet too since ich is what it now looks like on the clown goby plus the talbot damsel is pale and has white specs on fins and swimming into flow now after the recent prazi.
 
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the maroon? yeah hes long gone now unfortunately, but yes i plan on quarantining all new fish in the future if this 25 or 30 tank continues to hold water safely to atleast see that they seem healthy and possibly pre-empively treat too not sure.

thanks for the suggestion man, I will also look into getting a cheap acclimation box in the future because thats a really good idea too after others are already established.

still trying to figure out what to do with my current sick fish tho given all the symptoms still after 2 80% prazi doses and then the 1 at 100% maybe even 110% just like 4 days ago and still a bunch of symptoms but now white dots on fins too. Maybe its still from the strong prazi dose a few days ago but starting to concern me its ich or velvet too since ich is what it now looks like on the clown goby plus the talbot damsel is pale and has white specs on fins and swimming into flow now after the recent prazi.
It takes prazi 2-3 days to take effect
Also add aeration when treating with prazi
Please provide updated pics of fish with issues
 
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blazin'reefer

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It takes prazi 2-3 days to take effect
Also add aeration when treating with prazi
Please provide updated pics of fish with issues
you mean after dosing is done or treatment itself is done? i had read that it was consumed by bacteria and is most effective in the first day or 2 and jay had confirmed that it was actually consumed faster and faster each dose aswell and that symptoms could get worse for a day or 2 after but its been 4.5 since i put it in. i did leave it in the tank for 2.5 days though before turning uv on and skimmer back up a bit, aswell as adding the old activated carbon that was probably mostly exhausted because fish seemed worse.

i havent done a waterchange yet though. During dosing I added as much airation as i could aswell. (pointed powerhead up, skimmer on but lowered so wasnt collecting anything, 2 airstones and aquaclear 300 fuge on full blast too. i tried taking pics of the current issues on the tang but he was moving his fins too fast to see it. I will try again today though. I did post pics of the clowngoby and talbot on the other thread but i will repost them here too and try to maybe get better pics of all in a bit here since there were all kinda blurry and i wasnt able to get perfect focus. For the clown goby jay also said it looks like ich too and hypo or copper is the best but just trying to figure out if i have flukes, ich, velvet and possibly black ick from one fish after never having any disease seen before. If you zoom in on the talbot and tangs fins you can kinda see the spots aswell as pale coloration on the darker blurry pics of the talbot.
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vetteguy53081

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I don’t think it’s lymphocystis but bacterial and good water quality alone will help as well as broad spectrum antibiotic such as seachem kanaplex and even ruby rally pro
 
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blazin'reefer

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I don’t think it’s lymphocystis but bacterial and good water quality alone will help as well as broad spectrum antibiotic such as seachem kanaplex and even ruby rally pro
interesting, what about ich tho since clown gobies apparently show big spots with ich? given that you think its bacterial and jay thought ich on the goby i wonder if pulling and trying hypo if i can find calibration solution for my refractomer or copper then with an antibiotic seperately or maybe in the food at the same time would be best just incase it is either since i trust both your opinions and dont want to try one and end up having it be the other. Dont know how they will all do in a small 25 or 30 cube with a noob at hospitalizing for that long either tho if i did.

@vetteguy53081 @Jay Hemdal is there any differentiators between bacterial dots, viral dots like lympho and ich dots that would help me lean more one way or the other in both your opinions? and also do i still do the 4th dose of prazi in a few days even though it kinda made them seem worse?

i have a bunch of antibiotics such as metro, ciprofloxacin, ammoxacillin, penicillin, doxycycline, azithromycin and a few others but i could try to order kanaplex if none of the ones i have would work. so far i have been using metro on the clown goby after a hydrogen peroxide bath and he does look slightly better in that the mucous sheets from the previous video on the other thread have receded into the dots of the last pic. Not sure if i really want to deal with formaldehyde products to be completely honest that kinda worries me that me or my family might breathe it in.
 
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vetteguy53081

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interesting, what about ich tho since clown gobies apparently show big spots with ich? given that you think its bacterial and jay thought ich on the goby i wonder if pulling and trying hypo if i can find calibration solution for my refractomer or copper then with an antibiotic seperately or maybe in the food at the same time would be best just incase it is either since i trust both your opinions and dont want to try one and end up having it be the other. Dont know how they will all do in a small 25 or 30 cube with a noob at hospitalizing for that long either tho if i did.

@vetteguy53081 @Jay Hemdal is there any differentiators between bacterial dots, viral dots like lympho and ich dots that would help me lean more one way or the other in both your opinions? and also do i still do the 4th dose of prazi in a few days even though it kinda made them seem worse?

i have a bunch of antibiotics such as metro, ciprofloxacin, ammoxacillin, penicillin, doxycycline, azithromycin and a few others but i could try to order kanaplex if none of the ones i have would work. so far i have been using metro on the clown goby after a hydrogen peroxide bath and he does look slightly better in that the mucous sheets from the previous video on the other thread have receded into the dots of the last pic. Not sure if i really want to deal with formaldehyde products to be completely honest that kinda worries me that me or my family might breathe it in.
The spots look too large to be ich and is sporadically located
 
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blazin'reefer

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so unfortunately when i just looked at the tank today the tang was sitting in one spot twitching a bunch, falling over from side to side and breathing fast shallow breaths. i Just did a water change 15% and replaced carbon and turned the lights out because i dont know what else to do :(.
20240128_200217.jpg
 
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so unfortunately when i just looked at the tank today the tang was sitting in one spot twitching a bunch, falling over from side to side and breathing fast shallow breaths. i Just did a water change 15% and replaced carbon and turned the lights out because i dont know what else to do :(.
20240128_200217.jpg
Gee I wonder if being in a tiny tank weakened his immune system from stress?
 
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vetteguy53081

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interesting, what about ich tho since clown gobies apparently show big spots with ich? given that you think its bacterial and jay thought ich on the goby i wonder if pulling and trying hypo if i can find calibration solution for my refractomer or copper then with an antibiotic seperately or maybe in the food at the same time would be best just incase it is either since i trust both your opinions and dont want to try one and end up having it be the other. Dont know how they will all do in a small 25 or 30 cube with a noob at hospitalizing for that long either tho if i did.

@vetteguy53081 @Jay Hemdal is there any differentiators between bacterial dots, viral dots like lympho and ich dots that would help me lean more one way or the other in both your opinions? and also do i still do the 4th dose of prazi in a few days even though it kinda made them seem worse?

i have a bunch of antibiotics such as metro, ciprofloxacin, ammoxacillin, penicillin, doxycycline, azithromycin and a few others but i could try to order kanaplex if none of the ones i have would work. so far i have been using metro on the clown goby after a hydrogen peroxide bath and he does look slightly better in that the mucous sheets from the previous video on the other thread have receded into the dots of the last pic. Not sure if i really want to deal with formaldehyde products to be completely honest that kinda worries me that me or my family might breathe it in.
Viral will be on fins and possible body often looking like cauliflower, Bacterial will be on body, lateral line and sporadic on fish and look like sores or redness in some cases Most of the meds you have I do not recommend and are often alternatives and not solutions.
Peroxide is an oxidizers and fish will look better Temporarily. The tang twitching is often a sign of flukes or velvet but the pics make it impossible to distinguish. Formalin based meds near impossible to find and General cure is safe to use with a low level of ingredient.
Ruby Rally pro is mainly acriflavine
 
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blazin'reefer

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Viral will be on fins and possible body often looking like cauliflower, Bacterial will be on body, lateral line and sporadic on fish and look like sores or redness in some cases Most of the meds you have I do not recommend and are often alternatives and not solutions.
Peroxide is an oxidizers and fish will look better Temporarily. The tang twitching is often a sign of flukes or velvet but the pics make it impossible to distinguish. Formalin based meds near impossible to find and General cure is safe to use with a low level of ingredient.
Ruby Rally pro is mainly acriflavine
thanks for the info on meds, based on how he is right now should i try either a freshwater dip or peroxide dip or will it kill him being as stressed as he is? general cure is prazi and metro right? i could try pulling him and putting into a quarantine with both if that would help. I kinda question how it could be flukes after 3 prazi doses the strongest being just about 5 days ago tho. It could be velvet since him and the talbot are or i guess were continually swimming into the flow but still no velvet looking "powdery" tiny dots that i can see.
 
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vetteguy53081

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i havent pulled him from the 55 yet and he seemed perfectly happy before he got whatever it is but maybe. Trying to decide if i should pull him now or if hes a goner
A separate tank with sterile water always helpful but depends on state of the fish's health. 55g is not causing issues and lethargic often associated with disease such as velvet, flukes, etc
Add aeration.
 
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