When to call it on moribund wrasse

[agoralyx]

Hey all! I received a shipment of quarantined wrasses from Dr Reef yesterday. It included:

1 Halichoeres cosmetus
1 Cirrhilabrus isosceles
1 Cirrhilabrus rhomboidalis
2 Cirrhilabrus exquisitus (I ordered one, but two were sent. Thank you Dr Reef!)

Out of the box the pintail and the adorned were in the best condition. One of the exquisite and the rhomboid were both looking stressed, but alive. The second exquisite looked dead. She was floating on her side at the top of the bag. I got everyone else bag acclimating and was disposing of the water in her bag to get pics of her. Well, surprise, she wasn't dead.

Because I'd opened the bag, I didn't have time to temp acclimate her and had to put her immediately into my observation tank. Salinity was matched to shipping at 1.021. I didn't expect her to last an hour.

To my surprise, she lasted an hour. And her color was actually improving. Then she lasted the night. She's been with me for 24 hours now and is still barely hanging on. She is extremely poorly, and I'm wondering if at this point I should euthanize her. She's the only fish in the observation tank that hasn't eaten at least once. She'll swim if bothered, but is listless if left alone.

Video in colander took place about a minute before the video in the tank. Second photo was taken just after the second video.

Equipment in tank is a heater (set at 77f), air stone, filter, bag of bio balls from my main tank (supplemented with some bottle bac), and an ammonia badge. All water testing done with Red Sea products and a refractometer.

Tank parameters:
Salinity: 1.021
Nitrate: 1 ppm
Ammonia: 0.01 ppm
pH: 8.2
KH: 9.4 dKH
Phosphate: 0.06 ppm
Calcium: 450 ppm
Magnesium: 1200 ppm

 

[Jay Hemdal]

agoralyx Welcome to the Fish Disease Treatment and Diagnosis Forum!

The #fishmedic team and other knowledgeable members of our community will do our best to help you resolve your questions. Please provide as much of the following as you are able:

• Brief description of the issue you are observing and answers to the following questions:
  • How long have you had the fish with the condition?
  • Did you quarantine with medication when you first acquired the fish? (If Yes, which medication?)
• Current water quality measurements
• Clear photos of the issue taken using WHITE light and/or a short video of any behaviors (post in your response or on YouTube).

If you can help us by providing as much of the above info as possible, it will make diagnosing and providing recommendations for treatment MUCH easier! The Fish Medic team will get back to you as quickly as possible. In the meantime, other members of our community may also share their experience with similar situations and advice that they may have regarding your situation.

You may also feel free to provide a more detailed description of the condition if you wish to share more info than the above list.

Additionally, these links may be useful while you await a response:

• CURRENT QT PROTOCOL LINK
• HOW TO ASK FOR DISEASE DIAGNOSIS HELP LINK

 

[JoJosReef]

Every are you trying to feed it? I would think some ROE would be the easiest thing for it to take down right now.

@Jay Hemdal since OP can get the fish into a collander, is force feeding a possibility?

 

[agoralyx]

Every are you trying to feed it? I would think some ROE would be the easiest thing for it to take down right now.

@Jay Hemdal since OP can get the fish into a collander, is force feeding a possibility?

I've offered one cube of Omega One spirulina enriched brine shrimp, and one cube of V2O Fish & Reef 1 since it has mysis in it (Dr Reef feeds brine and mysis). I have the V2O PRO Variety pack which does have a capelin egg cube that I could potentially offer.

 

[JoJosReef]

I've offered one cube of Omega One spirulina enriched brine shrimp, and one cube of V2O Fish & Reef 1 since it has mysis in it (Dr Reef feeds brine and mysis). I have the V2O PRO Variety pack which does have a capelin egg cube that I could potentially offer.

I've found eggs to be the most palatable for fish stressed from shipping. Small sample size, though.

 

[vetteguy53081]

Hey all! I received a shipment of quarantined wrasses from Dr Reef yesterday. It included:

1 Halichoeres cosmetus
1 Cirrhilabrus isosceles
1 Cirrhilabrus rhomboidalis
2 Cirrhilabrus exquisitus (I ordered one, but two were sent. Thank you Dr Reef!)

Out of the box the pintail and the adorned were in the best condition. One of the exquisite and the rhomboid were both looking stressed, but alive. The second exquisite looked dead. She was floating on her side at the top of the bag. I got everyone else bag acclimating and was disposing of the water in her bag to get pics of her. Well, surprise, she wasn't dead.

Because I'd opened the bag, I didn't have time to temp acclimate her and had to put her immediately into my observation tank. Salinity was matched to shipping at 1.021. I didn't expect her to last an hour.

To my surprise, she lasted an hour. And her color was actually improving. Then she lasted the night. She's been with me for 24 hours now and is still barely hanging on. She is extremely poorly, and I'm wondering if at this point I should euthanize her. She's the only fish in the observation tank that hasn't eaten at least once. She'll swim if bothered, but is listless if left alone.

Video in colander took place about a minute before the video in the tank. Second photo was taken just after the second video.

Equipment in tank is a heater (set at 77f), air stone, filter, bag of bio balls from my main tank (supplemented with some bottle bac), and an ammonia badge. All water testing done with Red Sea products and a refractometer.

Tank parameters:
Salinity: 1.021
Nitrate: 1 ppm
Ammonia: 0.01 ppm
pH: 8.2
KH: 9.4 dKH
Phosphate: 0.06 ppm
Calcium: 450 ppm
Magnesium: 1200 ppm

Not uncommon for a newly acquired wrasse allowing a couple days to settle in
How did you acclimate it and for how long?

 

[MnFish1]

I would not euthanize the fish (if it is behaving in the manner you show in the second video. That is not 'moribund'

 

[agoralyx]

Not uncommon for a newly acquired wrasse allowing a couple days to settle in
How did you acclimate it and for how long?

I had set up an observation tank before the fish arrived at 1.021 salinity and 77° and had a separate bucket of prepped water at 1.026SG that I was planning on using to gradually up the tank with and/or adjust the initial gravity of the tank to closer to shipping if needed. (I tested the SG of the water in one of the obviously living fish bags with a needle below the waterline and retaped it to float for temp matching. Shipping SG was within .001 of my prepped water so I didn't adjust it.)

The fish I'm concerned about arrived pale grey, her eyes weren't moving, her breathing was either so slow or so shallow that I couldn't see it, and she was floating on her side. I assumed she was dead at that point so rather than temperature acclimate her closed bag, I cut the bag open and started pouring out the shipping water so I could photograph her. When I started pouring out the water, she started slowly moving her pectoral fins.

I retroactively realize I probably should have floated her bag anyway before cutting it open, even though I thought she was dead. But when I saw signs of life after cutting the bag open, I moved her immediately to the observation tank to get her out of the ammonia. The heat pack she was sent with was still warm, so I hoped the temperature shock wouldn't be too severe.

Tl;dr: acclimation was unfortunately only matching salinity to shipping SG.

Because she came in so stressed and I wasn't expecting her to make it, I opted not to play with the tank chemistry by raising the SG after all the fish were released, so it still remains at 1.021.

 

[agoralyx]

I would not euthanize the fish (if it is behaving in the manner you show in the second video. That is not 'moribund'

If folks think she's not moribund and could still bounce back, that's excellent news and I'm more than happy to continue babying her. I promise I'm not looking for excuses to euthanize a fish, I just don't want to cause her undue suffering. The second vid where she's in and out of the air bubbles was the most active I've seen her since she arrived, and when she immediately slumped back to her side I was concerned she'd exhausted the last of her energy with the stress of being scooped into the colander.

 

[agoralyx]

I've found eggs to be the most palatable for fish stressed from shipping. Small sample size, though.

Tried target feeding her some eggs, she's still alive but no feeding response (not even an attempted feeding response). I know this isn't specifically diagnostic and they can go quite a while without food, but for the sake of keeping everything updated!

 

[MnFish1]

Tried target feeding her some eggs, she's still alive but no feeding response (not even an attempted feeding response). I know this isn't specifically diagnostic and they can go quite a while without food, but for the sake of keeping everything updated!

I would 'be patient'. There is no emergency to euthanize a fish - especially in this situation. Nor would I be worried if the fish is not eating. I suggest step back - report new symptoms, and I would call/message @Dr. Reef. As your best option!! hope things work out.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Tried target feeding her some eggs, she's still alive but no feeding response (not even an attempted feeding response). I know this isn't specifically diagnostic and they can go quite a while without food, but for the sake of keeping everything updated!

Based on its eyes tracking well in the video, I would give it more time before considering euthanasia.

 

[agoralyx]

Alright, thank you for the reassurance everyone! I really appreciate it. I'll continue offering an assortment of food and keep her calm and quiet, hopefully she can recover. This tank is the first I've stocked with shipped fish, and she's the first that hasn't bounced back to normal within 24 hours so I may have been overly anxious.

 

[MnFish1]

FWIW Moribund is like a coma - like a fish lying on their side - barely breathing - or rapidly. They look almost dead - except for the breathing

 

[agoralyx]

Thank you for letting me know. I was under the impression that it meant illness or injury from which recovery is unlikely. I will use it correctly in the future.

 

[vetteguy53081]

If folks think she's not moribund and could still bounce back, that's excellent news and I'm more than happy to continue babying her. I promise I'm not looking for excuses to euthanize a fish, I just don't want to cause her undue suffering. The second vid where she's in and out of the air bubbles was the most active I've seen her since she arrived, and when she immediately slumped back to her side I was concerned she'd exhausted the last of her energy with the stress of being scooped into the colander.

As mentioned- they need time
In the future/ match the bag salinity by adding tank water until they’re equal

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Thank you for letting me know. I was under the impression that it meant illness or injury from which recovery is unlikely. I will use it correctly in the future.

It does mean that, but judging if recovery is likely or not is the trick. Your wrasse is alert enough to make us think it could recover. Fish don’t suffer from pain like higher animals do, so there isn’t any humane issue here, just recovery or not.

 

[agoralyx]

Unfortunately she did not make it through the night last night. (I'm certain this time, as she was in rigor mortis when I found her). All the other fish from the order, including the other exquisite, are all still doing very well.