What should I do for live rock?

[RedReefer]

All Florida live rock.

 

[kvansloo]

I have looked at rocks today, and find that I miss the old days. But removing rocks from a working reef is not good practice. I have 150 pounds of Fiji. I am more inclined to buy Live rock from the LFS today as long as it is very porous. That is my only requirement. I wish you could still get Fiji rocks. Pest should not be a concern even with ocean rocks like others have said pest can be removed when it becomes apparent. Ultimately it is up too you, do you want to wait for years to get good thick coralline algae or do you want to have a jump start so to speak. One true Live rock all by its self can cycle your new tank very quickly. I can get a new Marco rock and add it to my tank and in 3 months it is starting to get coralline. But my tank is 15 years old now. I know this because I am getting some rocks ready to go into a RS 525 XL. Good luck with your choice.

 

[Dan_P]

Likely ending up buying dry rock and adding live sand or rubble to a reactor and seeding the tank that way. Live sand in a reactor will likely have considerably more BB then equivalent amount of dry rock in pounds therefore less sand needed to get same affect. Uglies will later solve themselves once good bacterial gets established.

Hey, just wondering about something you said, not picking a fight. Where do think the notion came from that “good bacteria” have something to do with ending or preventing the uglies? I know this is a slight post hijack/off-topic question but sorta relavent

 

[GARRIGA]

Hey, just wondering about something you said, not picking a fight. Where do think the notion came from that “good bacteria” have something to do with ending or preventing the uglies? I know this is a slight post hijack/off-topic question but sorta relavent

We're talking about live rock therefore assume all talking about diversified bacteria and other life associated with live rock. Not sure what else to call it but good bacteria. Is there a hobby accepted term I should be using? Such as most call it phyto and I just call it single cell algae.

 

[Sump Crab]

Would my lfs be more affordable for live rock? I presume so because I wouldn’t have to pay shipping but I’ve never really looked. (I live in Atlanta in case anyone knows) Also has anyone had bad experiences with live rock purchased form their lfs or is it no different from the live rock that was in the ocean the previous day?

Absolutely do not get it from a LFS. Those days are over. You will most likely just end up with dry rock that's been soaking on tank water for a week or two.

 

[The deepwaterhorizon reef]

How many pounds of live rock would be good for a 75 then. Assuming that I’m not only using live rock and am instead doing a mix. Also which kind of dry rock is closest to the tbs live rock, and the kp aquatics live rock. I want to try to get similar live and dry rock. If there are any other companies that sell live rock I’d also like to know about them. Thanks

 

[The deepwaterhorizon reef]

Absolutely do not get it from a LFS. Those days are over. You will most likely just end up with dry rock that's been soaking on tank water for a week or two.

Ok I’ll remember that because multiple people have said that that is the case.

 

[Extremeengineer]

Would my lfs be more affordable for live rock? I presume so because I wouldn’t have to pay shipping but I’ve never really looked. (I live in Atlanta in case anyone knows) Also has anyone had bad experiences with live rock purchased form their lfs or is it no different from the live rock that was in the ocean the previous day?

Cost depends on your area I think. The 2 LFS I bought rock from ended up being $6 and $8 a pound, and then I bought some of the Dinkins LR with pods, and it was $10 a pound. Ask your LFS what they do with their rock to make it live, how long it has been in their tanks, and if they ghost feed at all. I used Carib-Sea live sand, the aforementioned LR and bottled bac. I am only 6 weeks in, but my diatom phase was very short, and did not appear at all on the pieces from one LFS, while the pieces from the other LFS got very little.

I cannot argue that the LR I used was as good as ocean rock from a diversity and bio-film perspective, I would have been better off with ocean rock if that was my primary concern. I was not willing to deal with the hitchhikers, simple as that. I am not educated enough at this point to be able to identify all of the good, or bad things I would have brought in, and I also do not have the knowledge yet of how to deal with all of them, and decide if I should deal with them and the long term ramifications of those choices. So right now I have 0 pests, am I naive enough to think that will continue as I add corals? No way. I'll do my best with QT and dip, but absolutely, at some point I'll have something I don't want; and a single something I can absolutely deal with as I gain knowledge and experience. I liked that approach for this tank. Would I consider LR next time, or more likely a mix? Absolutely. When experienced reefers say they don't mind all of the hitchhikers, or that this that or the other are "easy to deal with", it's all relative. I find a tailslide coming out of a decreasing radius corner on a superbike, as I apply throttle, at speed, on a track, "easy to deal with". For someone else that's a low side or a tank slapper and then an ejection. So as I said in my first post, there is no universal right answer, the best rock is the one that you will be happy with, you just have to think about what criteria factor most into your happiness, and slap your money down.

 

[Extremeengineer]

How many pounds of live rock would be good for a 75 then. Assuming that I’m not only using live rock and am instead doing a mix. Also which kind of dry rock is closest to the tbs live rock, and the kp aquatics live rock. I want to try to get similar live and dry rock. If there are any other companies that sell live rock I’d also like to know about them. Thanks

Depends on what you want for Aquascape. I would say start with 50 pounds, you can always add more, can't really return extra lol. If you are running rock in a sump too, start with 75 pounds, and pick and choose what you put in DT.

 

[Dan_P]

We're talking about live rock therefore assume all talking about diversified bacteria and other life associated with live rock. Not sure what else to call it but good bacteria. Is there a hobby accepted term I should be using? Such as most call it phyto and I just call it single cell algae.

OK, makes sense. No hobby term that I know of for what a live rock brings to an aquarium. Just wondering if you had come across the reason for why the hobby has latched onto bacteria as the cure for the uglies or why diversified bacteria is the holy grail. I will have to get into my time machine and see when bacteria became a thing in this hobby.

 

[The deepwaterhorizon reef]

Does anyone have any preferences for one live rock seller over another? Is one more affordable than others? Also what should my quarantine practice look like? I live in Atlanta if that helps

 

[Solo McReefer]

You could always "cure" your real live rock

Keep it in a stock tank or Brutes in fresh saltwater

Don't feed it. Just enough light to keep the coralline alive

Lots of flow

Dip with coral dips occasionally, KCl is as cheap as salt

Bayer(Imidacloprid), is too. Both of those will kill most inverts. Won't touch algae

Use an algicide to kill the algae you don't like, algafix Vibrant. Chemi Clean

Scrub off the stuff you don't want

You can do all sorts of stuff with it in a trash can or trough, that you wouldn't do in a reef system

While you're building the actual system

That's actually such a good idea, I just might do that myself

 

[Solo McReefer]

Does anyone have any preferences for one live rock seller over another? Is one more affordable than others? Also what should my quarantine practice look like? I live in Atlanta if that helps

I think my preference is

Do they have it in stock?

Or can get it in stock?

And do they return my email?

 

[GARRIGA]

OK, makes sense. No hobby term that I know of for what a live rock brings to an aquarium. Just wondering if you had come across the reason for why the hobby has latched onto bacteria as the cure for the uglies or why diversified bacteria is the holy grail. I will have to get into my time machine and see when bacteria became a thing in this hobby.

In the 80s it was my perception that what live rock meant was ocean dead coral full of attached life and porous thereby facilitating denitrification deep in it's core. Wasn't aware of any correlation made with containing a biodiversity of bacteria or other microscopic life that would ecologically fight that we today call uglies. Don't recall cyano or dinos, either. Today I read those two eliminated because of the bacteria or other microscopic life contained in fresh ocean rock although now due to regulations isn't likely dead coral but either man made or land sourced from construction sites and dropped in the ocean to be retrieved at a later date and we now believe dead coral although porous gets clogged by biofilm making those pores a poor option for denitrification. However, anecdotal experiences keeps the hobby believing that establishing that ocean rock early on tends to avoid the uglies. What I'll know 20 years from now yet to be determined but I have asked the question if live rock has been cut open and confirmed to be porous. Guessing one could run SW through it as they do with ceramic media but I doubt scientifically we could test the theory that uglies are preventable with so called live rock even if it's just ocean soaked dense land rock.

 

[Gumbies R Us]

Does anyone have any preferences for one live rock seller over another? Is one more affordable than others? Also what should my quarantine practice look like? I live in Atlanta if that helps

I like Tampa Bay Saltwater Live Rock

 

[Australian_Reef]

I don’t know the right answer tbh.. no one does definitively. I’ve only ever used LR until my latest tank which is full dry rock. It’s currently cycling and taking a lot longer than live rock. But I’m looking forward to minimal pests. I’m also bare bottom …so even longer cycle. I have added BB and I’m in no rush so I’m not regretting the decision. I can always get some live rock or sand from the ocean if needed. But I hope it isn’t as then I’ve just opened my self up to pests.

So speed= more live rock the better.

Pest free longevity (relatively) and better scaping potential, which is very important =dry + BB.

Hybrid approach that allows for a small amount of LR is probably optimal if you can really more it’s pest free.

But in the end successful tanks have been created in all three so it’s really down to you.

 

[slythy]

I got about 20lbs from KP. Just get their smaller sizing so you can stuff it in dry rock. I was really happy with what I got. I ended up getting a couple pieces from my lfs as well as stuff from my other tank. Dont think you can get enough sources.

 

[Osprey223]

You could always "cure" your real live rock

Keep it in a stock tank or Brutes in fresh saltwater

Don't feed it. Just enough light to keep the coralline alive

Lots of flow

Dip with coral dips occasionally, KCl is as cheap as salt

Bayer(Imidacloprid), is too. Both of those will kill most inverts. Won't touch algae

Use an algicide to kill the algae you don't like, algafix Vibrant. Chemi Clean

Scrub off the stuff you don't want

You can do all sorts of stuff with it in a trash can or trough, that you wouldn't do in a reef system

While you're building the actual system

That's actually such a good idea, I just might do that myself

Tampa Bay Saltwater is phenomenal. They have small packages that can be sent yo your door if you just want to seed your system and get things off to a good start. Anything over 8 pounds for rock is cheaper to do air cargo delivery to a local airport. The shipping for air cargo is $80 or more, but the shipping for a “treasure chest” of 8 pounds live rock is $75 so air cargo is the best bet for large orders. I recently got some LR and sand and the only “bad” hitchhiker is a tiny mantis shrimp that j plan to keep on his own. Most “bad” things are easy to get out.

I had a previous live sand order from gulfliverocks and it was pretty gnarly. Smelled like low tide so I ended up having to cure it in a spare tank for a month or so. TBS I had absolutely zero issues with and everything smelt very fresh.

 

[The deepwaterhorizon reef]

What are the typical pests? I don’t understand how you can quarantine rock without damaging its diversity. For example if you scrub the rock and give it minimal light and no food wouldn’t that trigger a die off of beneficial bacteria?

The idea of a hybrid system that several people said seems to be a pretty good option because I agree that dry rock is definitely easier to scape. So you can scape around the live rock that you have as sort of base to your scape

 

[Dan_P]

In the 80s it was my perception that what live rock meant was ocean dead coral full of attached life and porous thereby facilitating denitrification deep in it's core. Wasn't aware of any correlation made with containing a biodiversity of bacteria or other microscopic life that would ecologically fight that we today call uglies. Don't recall cyano or dinos, either. Today I read those two eliminated because of the bacteria or other microscopic life contained in fresh ocean rock although now due to regulations isn't likely dead coral but either man made or land sourced from construction sites and dropped in the ocean to be retrieved at a later date and we now believe dead coral although porous gets clogged by biofilm making those pores a poor option for denitrification. However, anecdotal experiences keeps the hobby believing that establishing that ocean rock early on tends to avoid the uglies. What I'll know 20 years from now yet to be determined but I have asked the question if live rock has been cut open and confirmed to be porous. Guessing one could run SW through it as they do with ceramic media but I doubt scientifically we could test the theory that uglies are preventable with so called live rock even if it's just ocean soaked dense land rock.

In the 90’s, the saltwater aquarium books discussed diatoms, cyanobacteria and hair algae in new and established aquaria. The uglies existed back then even using live rocks. The good old days with minimal uglies might be a myth. Another aspect of saltwater aquarium keeping that seems to have changed in addition to using dead rock is the speed at which aquarists ram things into their aquarium. While experienced aquarists can get away with minimal uglies, most do not.

I think when we understand the causes of the uglies, we will be in a better position to run some experiments.