What is the most reliable auto water change system without a controller like apex or hydros etc?

[exnisstech]

EDIT : Sorry I phrased my question wrong. I'm not really looking for a fully automatic WC system. Something more like @JGT describes below so I don't have to roll brutes around the house.

I just finished my second water change on my new tank with 285g total volume. Tank is in the living room and I mix salt in the basement. I drain from the tank into a brute then roll that to the bathroom to drain it. Then I pump from the basement brute with a pond pump. I normally enjoy water changes but my larger ones were done in my basement sump which I no longer have. The current process is not fun at all. I don't have any controllers and really have no need for one so it has to be done without a controller, or at least no controller for monitoring etc like apex or hydros. Im able to run plumbing through the floor but have no idea what would be the best hardware to get the job done reliably. I would rather spend more for reliability vs saving money. Any suggestions / recommendations?

 

[JayM]

I was hoping for some replies as I am wondering precisely the same thing. The Kamoer looks interesting, but there’s just enough poor reviews out there to keep me from pulling the trigger. Especially at about $500 bucks.

 

[slythy]

You can pick up an old Apex Lke the OG one for $50. I would get that and a DOS. Mine has been working really well for the past 2 years plus.

So you could have a known quality AWC system for well under $400 if you go used

 

[JGT]

Not exactly auto, but I don’t have to do anything other than hit a few buttons on my iPad.
I use a Sicce utility pump <$100 to pump water from my SW bin which is about 12’ from my sump. It sits in the bottom of the bin and then I have it hard plumbed up into the ceiling (10-12’ high) and then over to my sump. Works like a charm. I have the same in my sump plumbed to my utility sink. All setup with a Kasa power strip. It’s how I do WC’s. Do around 45 gallons in 10 mins give or take.

 

[Dr. Reef]

Smart Auto Water Changer Duo

The AutoAqua Smart AWC Duo is an innovative 2-in-1 auto water changing and auto top-off system designed to simplify your tank maintenance routine. With its intuitive touch screen, Quick Security Technology and dual sensor failsafe, you can easily remove and replenish aquarium water both hands...

www.bulkreefsupply.com

I havent used the water changer but I have used their ato and other devices and looking at brs reviews it seems like a good product.

You can use these to turn your own pumps on and off rather than using their small pumps,

AutoAqua Smart AC Socket

Works with AutoAqua Smart ATO, Smart ATO Micro and AWC.

www.coralvue.com

 

[Dr. Reef]

From what I understand the ATO controller has 2 optical sensors. 1 High and 1 Low.
Controller takes the water out from the high level to low level. so you can calculate how much gals is that in your case.
You can attach 2 of the smart sockets to the controller. each socket is 110v and you can plug in your own pump to it. AWC will send a signal to port 1 which will activate that socket and turn your pump on and drain the sump/tank from high to low optical sensor. Then AWC will turn the port 2 on which will be also a socket in the basement turning a pump plugged into it on refilling to the high sensor level. 3rd port is for ATO.
I am not sure on the P1 P2 P3 which order they are ATO vs AWC but you can figure it out if you buy the unit.

 

[KC2020]

I was hoping for some replies as I am wondering precisely the same thing. The Kamoer looks interesting, but there’s just enough poor reviews out there to keep me from pulling the trigger. Especially at about $500 bucks.

I just bought the Kamoer and haven't set it up yet. The only negative comments I've read are about Wi-Fi issues but that's true for all Kamoer pumps that have Wi-Fi. I'm actually going to use it for small water changes on a small tank. What appeals to me is having the sensors integrated, manual pumping just by pressing the buttons on the top and NOT relying on an Apex. I've been using an Apex for over a decade but I like to distribute some functions in case it gets wacky. So my return pump is independent with it's own battery backup and I'm going to do the same with the Kamoer and automatic water changes.

I guess I'm not answering your questions but just saying I'm in a similar situation. And you're right, not many options.

 

[JayM]

I just bought the Kamoer and haven't set it up yet. The only negative comments I've read are about Wi-Fi issues but that's true for all Kamoer pumps that have Wi-Fi. I'm actually going to use it for small water changes on a small tank. What appeals to me is having the sensors integrated, manual pumping just by pressing the buttons on the top and NOT relying on an Apex. I've been using an Apex for over a decade but I like to distribute some functions in case it gets wacky. So my return pump is independent with it's own battery backup and I'm going to do the same with the Kamoer and automatic water changes.

I guess I'm not answering your questions but just saying I'm in a similar situation. And you're right, not many options.

That sounds promising as I currently have a Kamoer dosing pump. It's been up and running for 5 or 6 months and I haven't had any issues. Initial setup was kinda clumsy, but it was certainly not at all frustrating.

 

[exnisstech]

Not exactly auto, but I don’t have to do anything other than hit a few buttons on my iPad.
I use a Sicce utility pump <$100 to pump water from my SW bin which is about 12’ from my sump. It sits in the bottom of the bin and then I have it hard plumbed up into the ceiling (10-12’ high) and then over to my sump. Works like a charm. I have the same in my sump plumbed to my utility sink. All setup with a Kasa power strip. It’s how I do WC’s. Do around 45 gallons in 10 mins give or take.

I phrased my question wrong when I stated auto water change.
Something like you describe would work great. I don't mind having to turn pumps on and off. Actually I would prefer that over automated because I lack confidence in automation. Thanks for replying. Pump in the tank sump draining to the basement sump crock and a pump in my brute to fill. Probably a valve up top to prevent syphon from draining too much. Should be easy enough to plumb and no one sees by basement so it doesn't even have to be neat just functional. I've been using a remote control socket when filling from the basement. I actually like it better than my wifi sockets.

 

[dwest]

I’ve been using Spectrapure liter meter 3 pumps for years for my AWC (and 2 part, kalk, and use their ATO system). They are expensive but very reliable. The LM3’s have been replaced with the LM4 which I have no experience with yet. I change 1% per day on my 180 gallon tank.

 

[Zissou Intern]

I also wanted to automate water changes without using a reef controller, mostly because I prefer to avoid software configuration in my free time. While my tank (76g + sump) is smaller than yours, the Autoaqua Duo has worked really well for me. I use three 12v Tunze high jet Turbelle pumps connected directly to the Duo. One pump is in my sump and pushes dirty water to the sewer drain in my basement. The other two pumps are in RODI and saltwater brute cans also in my basement. The basement is one floor lower and about 30 feet away. One nice thing about the Duo is that it can be run manually via a hardware button or on a schedule. And it also handles ATO from the same remote RODI can in the basement. I’ve been really happy with it for about 3 months now. See my build thread for some pics.

The pumps I use might be too slow for your larger tank. In that case you could use the Autoaqua’s Smart AC socket that Dr. Reef posted above to trigger any large pump that you want.

Regarding WiFi problems with the Kamoer pump, and most WiFi reef gear, I have found that forcing these devises to use 2.4 WiFi makes them MUCH more reliable. Probably because they use cheaper WiFi chips that don’t support higher connections. My router has an option to use 2.4 when connecting new devises, which I always use for reef equipment. Haven’t had any problems yet.

 

[JGT]

I phrased my question wrong when I stated auto water change.
Something like you describe would work great. I don't mind having to turn pumps on and off. Actually I would prefer that over automated because I lack confidence in automation. Thanks for replying. Pump in the tank sump draining to the basement sump crock and a pump in my brute to fill. Probably a valve up top to prevent syphon from draining too much. Should be easy enough to plumb and no one sees by basement so it doesn't even have to be neat just functional. I've been using a remote control socket when filling from the basement. I actually like it better than my wifi sockets.

Yes, it works well for me. Created scenes in Kasa. Start by turning every thing off. Once tank has drained fully into sump. Turn on pump in sump which pumps out 45 gals to utility sink. When done, turn off sump pump and turn on pump in FSW bin and pump water back to sump. When done turn off FSW pump and turn everything back on. Very easy and reliable.

 

[braaap]

I’ve been using Spectrapure liter meter 3 pumps for years for my AWC (and 2 part, kalk, and use their ATO system). They are expensive but very reliable. The LM3’s have been replaced with the LM4 which I have no experience with yet. I change 1% per day on my 180 gallon tank.

This is the correct answer.

Hands down the best ATO money can buy is the Spectrapure G7 Ultra Precise. https://spectrapure.com/products/sp...tem-with-magnetic-probe-holder-lm-uplc-ato-g7

For water change you could use their LM4 setup. It is very nice.

 

[Zissou Intern]

Yes, it works well for me. Created scenes in Kasa. Start by turning every thing off. Once tank has drained fully into sump. Turn on pump in sump which pumps out 45 gals to utility sink. When done, turn off sump pump and turn on pump in FSW bin and pump water back to sump. When done turn off FSW pump and turn everything back on. Very easy and reliable.

How do you measure 45g? Is it by sight using low/high marks in your sump?

 

[exnisstech]

This is the correct answer.

Hands down the best ATO money can buy is the Spectrapure G7 Ultra Precise. https://spectrapure.com/products/sp...tem-with-magnetic-probe-holder-lm-uplc-ato-g7

For water change you could use their LM4 setup. It is very nice.

Sorry for my ignorance but wouldn't two pumps be needed? One to pump old water out and another to pump fresh water in?

 

[GARRIGA]

One option if applicable is to place replacement water on floor above regulated by a float then have pump exit water. Doesn't get simpler than that

 

[SteveMM62Reef]

On my 120 Gallon I shut the Return Pumps off and shut the Skimmer Pump off. Let the water drain down. I measured my Water Change at 20% put a mark on the glass. Checked it one more time, by measuring the discard water. Now I drain right into the Sewage Pit, or if it’s raining hard into the Sump Pit. Refill off of the Brute, have a Plastic Shut off valve on the end of my hose. It doesn’t hurt the pump as it takes two minutes to unplug it.

 

[JayM]

Sorry for my ignorance but wouldn't two pumps be needed? One to pump old water out and another to pump fresh water in?

For water changes - yes.

 

[KC2020]

That sounds promising as I currently have a Kamoer dosing pump. It's been up and running for 5 or 6 months and I haven't had any issues. Initial setup was kinda clumsy, but it was certainly not at all frustrating.

Clearly Kamoer has had different Wi-Fi chipsets in the pumps and numerous re-writes of their app with varying success or lack of. I had one of their small Kamoer F1 pumps that wouldn't connect to a 2.4Ghz network and complete the set up of the app.

My router has a script that notifies me when anything new has joined the network. I got the notice from my router with the mac address of the Kamore, it had joined the network but the Kamoer app didn't know it had.
That's just bad software.

I phrased my question wrong when I stated auto water change.
Something like you describe would work great. I don't mind having to turn pumps on and off. Actually I would prefer that over automated because I lack confidence in automation.

For manual changes I have my circulation and return pumps plugged into Kasasmart smart plugs which are in turn plugged into their battery backups which are plugged into wall outlets.

I also have a pump in my sump and a pump on my new water resevoir.

Open the Kasa app on my phone and push 1 button to turn of circulation pumps, another to turn off the return pump. Next one turns on pump that drains water from my sump and final button turns on my pump in the reservoir to fill the sump back up. Water change done in a couple of minutes. Turn circulation and return pumps back on and I'm done.

What I'll have the Kamoer do is daily water changes that remove and replace the water simultaneously so I don't have to shut down the circulation and return pumps because their won't be a drop in water level. I can do that manually with the buttons on the top of the Kamoer or automatically through the app.

 

[JGT]

How do you measure 45g? Is it by sight using low/high marks in your sump?

Yes. My DT drains down into the sump and it hits a certain level. It stops with a few inches to spare. I then pump it all out.
Pump it back in to the same level. Sump is 50 gals, 5 gals being in the return section which doesn’t get removed so 45 gals.