what causes fish / corals to die?

[feegus]

Hi everyone I have been looking after my fish and coral for about 18 months now. I have a 180 gallon 6 foot aquarium with mostly lps and softies, I tried some sps but only the montipora has been growing and doing well.

After this time I would imagine my tank should be stable enough that established and eating fish and coral should not be dying. During 2020 I was purchasing alot of fish and coral - I guess this would have stressed the fish. Around a third of these fish did not make it more than a couple months. I have not purchased anything live since December last year. I am still having fish that appear healthy just one day disappear or lose buoyancy and die the next day. A canary wrasse which I purchased in early 2020 died last week, he was eating well and would stand up to the more aggressive fish. Then one day i notice the bi-colour angel was being mean, the next day he is dead. I would say in the last 9 months I have lost 5-6 previously healthy fish, and I have no idea why.

In early 2020 I had issues with whitespot, I treated the tank with trisulphur (i think its called that), but since then I haven't seen it visible on any fish. I use fresh sea water in my aquarium and believe I have stable parameters.

My corals experience something similar, they look healthy for months then one or two every couple weeks just wither away.

So my question is: What factors can cause fish and coral to die?


Fish list:

Powderblue tang, purple tang, blue tang, orange shoulder tang,

bicolor angel

melenurus wrasse, choati leopard wrasse, ornate leopard wrasse

2 anthias, 2 clownfish, 2 chromis, a damselfish and a lawnmower blenny

Thanks for help!

 

[Saltyreef]

There are Soooooooooooooooo many variables for either.

 

[JReef3]

Disease, parasites, poor water parameters, unstable water parameters, stress from other fish/inverts, the list goes on...

 

[Lowell Lemon]

New stuff called Voogle from Easy Life that might help. Is your aquarium set up with live rock from the ocean or dry rock or man made rock?

 

[feegus]

Would listing inverts and parameters help? I use mostly live rock and with a couple bits of man made rock. What does Voggle do?

Thanks everyone!

 

[Timfish]

Sorry to hear you're having problems. Age, stress, introduced pathogens, pathogens and/or metabolic issues the animal already had when acquired, improper diet, for corals add excess labile DOC and nutrient imbalances. I don't have much advise for fish but for corals I'd recommend Forest Rrohwer's "Coral Reefs in the Microbial Seas" (kindle ~$10, paperback ~$17). This videos you may find informative also:

"Coral Reefs in the Microbial Seas"


Changing Seas - Mysterious Microbes


Nitrogen cycling in hte coral holobiont


BActeria and Sponges


Maintenance of Coral Reef Health (refferences at the end)


Optical Feedback Loop in Colorful Coral Bleaching


Richard Ross What's up with phosphate"

 

[tyro]

To start narrowing it down I'd say post what parameters you have in your tank. Maybe lighting type and schedule for corals. How often you do water changes and how much you change out. Other equipment could even be helpful like pump flow, protein skimmer, wave makers. Even what types of coral. You could have 2 different types of anemone fighting with toxins.

This is what the 2nd post meant. If you really want to get to the bottom of it more info is definitely needed.

 

[BroccoliFarmer]

Old age? Sudden Fish Death Syndrome (SFDS), they want to?

 

[ZoWhat]

Fish list:

Powderblue tang, purple tang, blue tang, orange shoulder tang,

bicolor angel, melenurus wrasse, choati leopard wrasse, ornate leopard wrasse, 2 anthias, 2 clownfish, 2 chromis, a damselfish and a lawnmower blenny

I have the exact same size tank. I think your problems are listed above.

>16 fish including 4 tangs<



.

 

[feegus]

OK cool thanks so much. I will look at those videos this evening so I can fully focus on them and take some notes.

I should add i feed them: a cube of mysis or angelmix and a cube of brineshrimp. handful of pellets twice a day, nori in the morning and once a week a muscle or shrimp. I feed reefroids and shrimp to coral every week or two.
Parameters

Nitrates - have been 0 for the last year, but recently I was told to stop using NOPOX because it could be causing my issues with the corals. Since then they have slowly gone up to 4 - 5.

Phosphates: same with nitrates, now at 0.08ish

KH: 6-7.5 pretty stable

Calcium: 380 - 440

Mag 1380 - 1440

need to test salinity and temperature (could they be factors?)

I was doing 30-40% water changes every 2 weeks. Since stopping nopox I have been doing it weekly.

I have 4 Nero 5 Wavemakers and 5 ones build into the back wall of the tank. Also a return pump.

Skimmer is the largest red sea reefer one, bought it second hand last year and had to replace the impeller a few weeks ago, maybe that was the issue?

Lighting, leds (can check the name later) set on a blue and 25% white spectrum, go on at 7 and off at 8. 2 hour ramp. Also should add only a few leathers and the monti are growing.

I have mainly lost acros, euphullia corals and the brain like corals.


Coral:

5 hammers (3 happy, 2 sick lost a couple recently)

3 elegance (very happy)

lost 2 torches

lost 5 golf ball size acro colonies, still have 2 and a montipora (montis doing well acros are not)

2 toadstools, a large leather tree thing (sick), 3 gonipora (sick),

glass cushion which was huge and happy now hasnt been

mushrooms, and some more leathers which i dont know the name of.

Inverts:

2 abalone they had kids last week which is cool

1000000 snails (hate them want them to go)

had 3 cleaner shrimp they all died over this year.

had star fish they too died, only one left.

 

[feegus]

Old age? Sudden Fish Death Syndrome (SFDS), they want to?

dont think its old age, only had them for 18 months at the longest and most are not fully grown

 

[feegus]

I have the same size tank. I think your problems are listed above. <16>

I never know, how do I know about how many fish i can have? They all eat, no aggression, a little flaring between tangs, these fish were all added together when I moved at the start of the year. Tank does not look to full and I'm not having problems with maintenance (although since stopping nopox its a little more rigorous.)

I was actually hoping to get an achilles tang and desjardini, yellowtail tamarin and a multibar angelfish once I figure out my other issues. Based on your post I assume this is a bad idea?

 

[Bruce60]

As a forensic pathologist, I have studied how people die for several decades and I can say you have asked an expansive question. Broadly speaking:

1. Disease (natural death): could be infectious, circulatory, respiratory, digestive, nervous system, kidneys, etc.. Literally hundreds of possibilities, many of which we as hobbyists would never know.
2. Environmental: temperature, salinity, decreased oxygen, pH, pollution of the environment with chemicals or natural toxins.
3. Violent: predation by other species in the tank, accidental injury.

 

[feegus]

As a forensic pathologist, I have studied how people die for several decades and I can say you have asked an expansive question. Broadly speaking:

1. Disease (natural death): could be infectious, circulatory, respiratory, digestive, nervous system, kidneys, etc.. Literally hundreds of possibilities, many of which we as hobbyists would never know.
2. Environmental: temperature, salinity, decreased oxygen, pH, pollution of the environment with chemicals or natural toxins.
3. Violent: predation by other species in the tank, accidental injury.

ok thanks. Ill try rule out a couple then?

I think natural death is out of the question because they have been healthy and suddenly aren't. So its probably not that they were sick to begin with.

I cant see obvious signs of disease, but I am sure there are traces because I have not quarantined, my LFS said they do and it was a waste of time. Further reading and sick fish have led me to disagree with this claim. I am planning on QT for all future creatures.

I think violence and stability are probably my issues. There is no violence when everythings healthy but I usually notice once the fish gets sick they dont get to recover because they get no food once theyre sick.

Thanks!

 

[Lowell Lemon]

Would listing inverts and parameters help? I use mostly live rock and with a couple bits of man made rock. What does Voggle do?

Thanks everyone!

www.easylife.eu check it out.

 

[ZoWhat]

I never know, how do I know about how many fish i can have? They all eat, no aggression, a little flaring between tangs, these fish were all added together when I moved at the start of the year. Tank does not look to full and I'm not having problems with maintenance (although since stopping nopox its a little more rigorous.)

I was actually hoping to get an achilles tang and desjardini, yellowtail tamarin and a multibar angelfish once I figure out my other issues. Based on your post I assume this is a bad idea?

Someone else take the wheel


.

 

[feegus]

Someone else take the wheel


.

Sorry I did not mean to offend you. I am trying to learn honestly. This is my first time looking after fish and coral. I was trying to ask how do I know if the tank is too full. What signs? I have heard this term thrown around alot but I have never found a proper response.I really did not try to be rude or arrogant...

 

[ZoWhat]

Sorry I did not mean to offend you. I am trying to learn honestly. This is my first time looking after fish and coral. I was trying to ask how do I know if the tank is too full. What signs? I have heard this term thrown around alot but I have never found a proper response.I really did not try to be rude or arrogant...

No offense.... just I don't want to go on a dissertation on stocking a reef tank from an old timers POV

Your current stock list would be crowded for a 300+ gal

 

[feegus]

No offense.... just I don't want to go on a dissertation on stocking a reef tank from an old timers POV

Is there a way to know if this is my problem? Could I take some fish out and see if my troubles go away? I would imagine fish numbers should not affect coral health?

 

[Bruce60]

ok thanks. Ill try rule out a couple then?

I think natural death is out of the question because they have been healthy and suddenly aren't. So its probably not that they were sick to begin with.

I cant see obvious signs of disease, but I am sure there are traces because I have not quarantined, my LFS said they do and it was a waste of time. Further reading and sick fish have led me to disagree with this claim. I am planning on QT for all future creatures.

I think violence and stability are probably my issues. There is no violence when everythings healthy but I usually notice once the fish gets sick they dont get to recover because they get no food once theyre sick.

Thanks!

Is natural really not possible? Can fish have heart attacks? Strokes? aneurysms? Blood clots to the gills? All these causes would present as sudden deaths...if fish can die from these things.