We got a sneak peek of something HUGE for Radion lighting!!

[Water Dog]

I guess my whole thing with the game changing diffused light is, after a single generation, is the game changing HEI lense now obsolete? Will the next generation G5 render everything that came before, useless? I may be flamed for this, but my point is, how do we define real innovation that benefits us as hobbyists vs stop gap solutions that the lemmings will defend to no end? And let's not kid ourselves... every brand has their lemmings.

 

[Ryanbrs]

I guess my whole thing with the game changing diffused light is, after a single generation, is the game changing HEI lense now obsolete? Will the next generation G5 render everything that came before, useless? I may be flamed for this, but my point is, how do we define real innovation that benefits us as hobbyists vs stop gap solutions that the lemmings will defend to no end? And let's not kid ourselves... every brand has their lemmings.

More or less, similar to other releases. Most people don't upgrade from the iphone 6 to 7 or from last years TV to this years. They wait a couple generations and wait for a feature set or design change which makes the investment worthwhile. In this case, Ecotech is still using the HEI lenses to distribute the light wider under the diffusion panel so the upgrade is closer to a new phone case than the G5 : )

As to defining real innovation versus brand and purchase defense. Hopefully, that's found in data and related results and not just personal opinions.

 

[reeferfoxx]

In this case, Ecotech is still using the HEI lenses to distribute the light wider under the diffusion panel

Since you guys still 'might' have the diffuser on hand, couldn't you remove the lens and try it out yourselves? Make it into another BRS investigates?

 

[Bouncingsoul39]

Most people don't upgrade from the iphone 6 to 7 or from last years TV to this years.

I disagree. They absolutely do. Apple's whole business is dependent on people doing just that. My wife has gotten every new model since the 4. It costs us a decent amount of money every year with little benefit over the last one. But she has to have the new shiney. Just like how Ecotech operates. For every one person that will wait to evaluate features and stick with their existing tech there are a dozen people throwing their wallets at the screen. I really liked your BRS investigates videos and others but lets face it, at the end of the day you guys are just shills selling a product like every other retailer out there.
Just be careful with what you call game changers and labeling this stuff to hype it up. Not everything is the next game changer. Your videos are still calling Metal Halide/T5 hybrid fixtures the "Gold Standard" in reefing. Your other videos still score T5 HO higher than LED. So based on your research everyone should still be running T5/Halide or T5 HO lighting and yet here we are discussing an add on product to an over priced, inferior technology, as the next big thing.

 

[Newb73]

More or less, similar to other releases. Most people don't upgrade from the iphone 6 to 7 or from last years TV to this years. They wait a couple generations and wait for a feature set or design change which makes the investment worthwhile. In this case, Ecotech is still using the HEI lenses to distribute the light wider under the diffusion panel so the upgrade is closer to a new phone case than the G5 : )

As to defining real innovation versus brand and purchase defense. Hopefully, that's found in data and related results and not just personal opinions.

This.

Always skip a generation or two. I'll run my LEDs close to 5 years before I even think of upgrading, unless one goes out and forces me to do it early.

My costs of even the cheapest MH/T5 combo was may be $300 less than my LEDs. That's for the 175Wx2 and 4x 80w 60 inch sun fixtures.

Any more power draw than that, and I've got to pay to run a new circuit (and probably would also have to program it so my main heater doesn't come on during the 4 to 5 hours of full power but instead uses a smaller back up heater). So 2x Heaters and and apex.

First time I buy bulbs and pay a years power bill im in the hole by several hundred by years end.

Not so sure the upfront cost really is more expensive with LEDs. At least not looking at it terms of cost per year and year 1 being "up front cost".

The trade off is i am limited to an lps dominated, which my work schedule locks me into anyway.

For SPS, maybe I save a bit going with a 3x 400w 72 inch fixture and just having my electrician run a dedicated outlet directly to box over buying 5 radions, but I'm still close to break even after 2 years.

It's personal preference but once ive enjoyed my tank w full control of the lights, it would be real hard to go back to on/off function.

So much so that I'm willing to settle for only having a couple sps in my tank just to avoid that.

Even my kessils on one of my smaller tanks aggrivate me in this front.

 

[gcarroll]

I disagree. They absolutely do. Apple's whole business is dependent on people doing just that. My wife has gotten every new model since the 4. It costs us a decent amount of money every year with little benefit over the last one. But she has to have the new shiney. Just like how Ecotech operates. For every one person that will wait to evaluate features and stick with their existing tech there are a dozen people throwing their wallets at the screen. I really liked your BRS investigates videos and others but lets face it, at the end of the day you guys are just shills selling a product like every other retailer out there.
Just be careful with what you call game changers and labeling this stuff to hype it up. Not everything is the next game changer. Your videos are still calling Metal Halide/T5 hybrid fixtures the "Gold Standard" in reefing. Your other videos still score T5 HO higher than LED. So based on your research everyone should still be running T5/Halide or T5 HO lighting and yet here we are discussing an add on product to an over priced, inferior technology, as the next big thing.

Wow, You do realize that those videos were not all produced on the same day, right? You do know that referring to Halide and T5 have been the "gold standard" of sps reef lighting prior to LED coming into the market, right? If you don't I'm telling you that it is!

Over the years as LEDs become more refined, they are going to surpass MH and T5. Has that day come? For some it has. Heck for many it came years ago. For others it hasn't but with each advancement those that feel that day has come grows! For me that day came when I saw the 900g sps tank of WWC. I can tell you that I have not seen corals colored like that running MH or T5. And I have seen an awful lot of coral over the years.

BTW, you must be one of the guys that give BRS TV a thumbs down no matter how much valuable info is included in their videos!

 

[Centerline]

Wow, You do realize that those videos were not all produced on the same day, right? You do know that referring to Halide and T5 have been the "gold standard" of sps reef lighting prior to LED coming into the market, right? If you don't I'm telling you that it is!

Over the years as LEDs become more refined, they are going to surpass MH and T5. Has that day come? For some it has. Heck for many it came years ago. For others it hasn't but with each advancement those that feel that day has come grows! For me that day came when I saw the 900g sps tank of WWC. I can tell you that I have not seen corals colored like that running MH or T5. And I have seen an awful lot of coral over the years.

BTW, you must be one of the guys that give BRS TV a thumbs down no matter how much valuable info is included in their videos!

Not everyone at WWC is all that excited about the Radions. I see that 900 about once a month and it will be interesting to see if it performs like it did with MH/T5.

 

[atoll]

I always go for secondhand late previous equipment models. Just bought 3 x XR15s and an XR30 less than half the original price and BTW I never buy the next model of phone out, I always skip at least one and often 2 replacement models. I am however thankful for the fact new models come out every year or two as the most have guys buy them and pass their old models on so I get a bargain or two.

 

[gcarroll]

Not everyone at WWC is all that excited about the Radions. I see that 900 about once a month and it will be interesting to see if it performs like it did with MH/T5.

Well, it's approaching a year with the Radions so it's hard to attribute the current success to the previous lighting. Not sure who @WWC is not "all that excited" but I myself only value a couple opinions there. The ones that truly matter! Now keep in mind, I only care about their performance as it matters to SPS tanks. If the Radion can't grow zoas, nems, & softies, I honestly could give two @#$%^!

 

[Ryanbrs]

I really liked your BRS investigates videos and others but lets face it, at the end of the day you guys are just shills selling a product like every other retailer out there.

Those are some harsh words : )

I totally get the vantage point and if I told you I was not biased in some way there is no way that can be true so it is legit to pass what we share through that filter. That said, our main goal is just to provide the raw data as we see it and get past the bullet points on the packaging. With that, I absolutely share our interpretation of the data and our experiences. Particularly when there is a required perception element attached to it. I would like to share that the week prior I pointed out very clearly I do not like the shimmer from the xr30 and clearly demonstrated the far from perfect spectrum/color blending data. This was done knowing full well this data and interpretation will deter sales and a vendor we represent might not be happy with us but it's real and I think reefers not only want to know but have a right to know before they spend thousands of dollars on these lights. The day that episode aired Ecotech called and overnighted me the diffuser. They didn't tell me anything other than test it and share our results as we see it.

The phrase "game changer" seems to be a real sticking point in this conversation. The direct reason I shared that specific phrase is several members of the team said those exact words when they saw how much better the tank looked with it. We had the president of one of the nations largest reef clubs visiting us last week and he felt the same. I personally would not have used a Radion on my own installs prior because I am so picky about shimmer, I now think this implementation might be the best shimmer of any LED I have seen. It's muted and soft with no color separation. The shimmer now adds movement to the tank without distracting away from the tank. The diffuser is a prototype and I have had limited interaction with it so I can't truly say the shimmer is 100% the best I have ever seen but there is no question, it is a dramatic visual improvement which has absolutely has the potential to go beyond that. I will also share that some reefers actually prefer that more rapid shimmer with harsher lines so it is certainly an individual choice as well.

I have to say I personally identify and agree with the general spirit of this conversation. It is disappointing we are not progressing faster and the industry has yet to universally identify what good looks like. I honestly think we are pretty close now and the next generation of lights are going to look substantially different than what we have seen in the last decade. If they continue to be small ultra high power modules forever I will personally be pretty disappointed. Hopefully, there will be better and more affordable solutions for those looking to produce wall to wall SPS display tanks in the next year or so.

 

[reeferfoxx]

If they continue to be small ultra high power modules forever I will personally be pretty disappointed.

+1

 

[revhtree]

I disagree. They absolutely do. Apple's whole business is dependent on people doing just that. My wife has gotten every new model since the 4. It costs us a decent amount of money every year with little benefit over the last one. But she has to have the new shiney. Just like how Ecotech operates. For every one person that will wait to evaluate features and stick with their existing tech there are a dozen people throwing their wallets at the screen. I really liked your BRS investigates videos and others but lets face it, at the end of the day you guys are just shills selling a product like every other retailer out there.
Just be careful with what you call game changers and labeling this stuff to hype it up. Not everything is the next game changer. Your videos are still calling Metal Halide/T5 hybrid fixtures the "Gold Standard" in reefing. Your other videos still score T5 HO higher than LED. So based on your research everyone should still be running T5/Halide or T5 HO lighting and yet here we are discussing an add on product to an over priced, inferior technology, as the next big thing.

Calling someone a "shill" is pretty uncalled for especially when you have no evidence of that claim. I'm gonna have to ask you to refrain from such accusations.

 

[reeferfoxx]

Not to be brown-nosing or sound redundant but I and many others really appreciate these videos. I think there is a good balance of the pros and cons without insulting or bringing negativity in the mix. I think the most impressive is the use use of multiple meters, spectrometers, voltometers etc etc. The proof is in the numbers. Though I'm a critic of small puck design, there are some impressive info that would likely persuade myself in a purchase. However, checks and balances don't always add up for me. Any case, much appreciated and thank you.

PS- Consider doing the diffuser without lens review, por favor..gracias

 

[nc208082]

I disagree. They absolutely do. Apple's whole business is dependent on people doing just that. My wife has gotten every new model since the 4. It costs us a decent amount of money every year with little benefit over the last one. But she has to have the new shiney. Just like how Ecotech operates. For every one person that will wait to evaluate features and stick with their existing tech there are a dozen people throwing their wallets at the screen. I really liked your BRS investigates videos.
Just be careful with what you call game changers and labeling this stuff to hype it up. Not everything is the next game changer. Your videos are still calling Metal Halide/T5 hybrid fixtures the "Gold Standard" in reefing. Your other videos still score T5 HO higher than LED. So based on your research everyone should still be running T5/Halide or T5 HO lighting and yet here we are discussing an add on product to an over priced, inferior technology, as the next big thing.

Instead of a new iPhone every year perhaps upgrade every other year and donate some of that money to charity. Its the consumers choice of upgrading phones every year, don't blame the manufacturer for lack of will power.

Your accusations about BRS is uncalled for, Ryan and his team at BRS have done an amazing job at producing these videos comparing and examining products. Perhaps lets see your contributions to this hobby if your going to be so bold and call people names. They do an amazing job of comparing products and if you have a problem with what they do, you don't have to watch or comment on there posts or videos.

 

[pwilliaml]

So are these going to be like the HEI lenses and only come out for the G4's, or are they going to make the new diffuser work with the older G3's? Is the diffuser supposed to be used in addition to the HEI, or what?

 

[gus6464]

You know who had "HEI" lenses before ecotech and for quite a bit of years? Kessil. A dome optic is not new yet it was never called a game changer back then. One giant dome covering the entire array is no different than tiny ones for each diode.

Also Kessil came out with diffusion discs for the AP700 over a year ago and once again no one reported it being a game changer either.

I owned a Kessil AP700 before my CoralCare and it's a superbly made light. The app might not be as robust as ecotech's but once you set it up you don't touch it again. It's all about the little things. Radions comes with cheap $10 chinese power supplies. The AP700 comes with a $100 Delta/Meanwell IP67 power supply.

Sure my coralcare is big and bulky but it's built to last. Everything in it is made in-house. The driver is a Philips xitanium, shell is made in EU as it's a gentlespace gen 2 which is designed for commercial/industrial applications. Diodes are all Luxeon. The thing falls in the tank, I take it out, wipe it off, and keep on going about my day.

Saltwater is a pretty harsh environment for electronics so I will take function over form any day. Everyone's complaints about the thing seems to revolve around the looks. I hardly call that a flaw. Complain about the performance, durability, build quality, etc. and then you got a point. But looks have and always will be subjective which should never be thrown in with the rest.

 

[Arrick_L]

Let's make love not war. There is enough death on Game of Thrones lol. I got to speak to the guys at BRS face to face at MACNA and they do not come off as salesman even though theyvare running a business. They sound like reefers just like the rest of us. I think they do a good job of giving information for us as consumers to make vood educated decisions. From there it is up to us to decide what route to take. There is no one right way to be successful in this hobby. So just take the info for what its worth and go with it. I made a comment that if Radions had the same shimmer as Kessils there would be one choice and things would be easy. Whats good is the companies are listening and trying to do better. BRS is just giving us the info to make better choices. They sell all the most popular options we all use so what difference does it really make to them.

 

[reeferfoxx]

I was under the impression that "game changer" pertained to Ecotech Radions and not the entire lighting industry. ;Bookworm

 

[siggy]

I was under the impression that "game changer" pertained to Ecotech Radions and not the entire lighting industry. ;Bookworm

Someone call, just started another Brad Thor sure to be good.
EVERYTHING LED that can enhance and influence a $100 to $1000 plus corals is a game changer. I installed some of the early Led commercial fixtures and knew instantly that led would be the future.
In 5 years when 5-10 WATT leds are the norm everything will be diffused.
Just wished they were glass instead of plastic cus you will have to replace frequently.

 

[Donovan Joannes]

Someone call, just started another Brad Thor sure to be good.
EVERYTHING LED that can enhance and influence a $100 to $1000 plus corals is a game changer. I installed some of the early Led commercial fixtures and knew instantly that led would be the future.
In 5 years when 5-10 WATT leds are the norm everything will be diffused.
Just wished they were glass instead of plastic cus you will have to replace frequently.

Any glass can be frosted easily with sand blaster.