Waterbox 50.3 - The First Reefing Journey

[Gizmoreef]

Hi everyone,

Read a lot on the forum and have some experience with freshwater tanks which I tried to equip with so much high-end gear it was in premium salt territory prices.
Always figured I would avoid salt but having reset a tank I had (Waterbox Cube 10) I figured, why not, let's give salt a go.

Some random clicking on one of my favorite online fish stores and then I ended up with a Waterbox 50.3 in the shopping cart even though I was just shopping for some substrate and dry rock for the Cube 10

The plan is simple: a high-end, tech infested tank. If I can keep it up and stay motivated, do a really big reef tank in the house.

I already have quite a bit of gear.

So far the build parts I have:

• Tank: Waterbox 50.3
• Lights: Prime 16s but I am getting 2 Kessil lights because they are amazing for the shimmer effect due to LED density
• Skimmer: Currently a Tunze 9001 but looking into other options, don't need it in the long cycle phase anyway (open to suggestions)
• Pump: AI Axis 90 (mobius support)
• Computer: Neptune Apex with PH, Temp, ORP and Salinity
• Computer expansions: Trident and Trident NP
• Computer Failsafes: Waterline sensors and several leak detection sensors
• AWC: Kamoer X2SR (this is a beast)
• ATO: probably using the Apex for this with the utility V2 pump I have
• Substrate: Caribsea ARAG-ALIVE Special Grade
• Rocks: Real Reef Arches
• RODI: MyAqua1900 (great device this one)
• Mixing Station tanks: Currently have 2 x 30 gallon tanks (120L), one for RODI water, one for salt.
• Plumbing: Plumber is helping to get some piping going under the floor to have a full automatic water changes. I HATE BUCKETS

Initially I wanted to fit some anemones in the Cube 10 with a designer nemo (or a small pair) but I went into thinking the tank was too small rather quick. I think I'm gonna use the Cube 10 as a small quarantine tank to make sure fish are disease free before plopping them into the main tank.

Tank should arrive within 3 days so then I can start with the basic setup and get to cycling.

Just haven't decided yet which approach I'm taking for cycling yet and we don't have many turbo start solutions available here in mainland Europe.

I might get questions on why the high-end gear and not get a sump system? This one is actually going on my computer desk. I have a very big computer setup on an L-shaped desk and a 50.3 fits perfectly on my side. I spend a lot of time on my computer for work so feels like the perfect spot to take a small break during work and enjoy the reef next to me. Sump is something I will get in a standalone dedicated tank. Like I said, If I keep enjoying salt, I want to put a big 300+ tank in the living area of the house. I do also enjoy the challenge of putting as much tech in a small AIO system as possible and automate stuff. (I have a ridiculous 10 liter tank aswel that is thriving fyi with a fully decked out apex system on there which is kinda ridiculus as the tank itself is so plastic and generic as can be, but I enjoy the tech part of fishkeeping A LOT)

Some challenges I still have:
- Automated mixing station: I want to figure out how I can fill my rodi tank but have it automatically switch to a seperate flush valve 5 minutes after kicking in before the water enters the rodi tank. Keep in mind, I want everything fully automated. Pretty much have a sensor detect, water level is low, let's make new rodi. Autoflush and switch valve when TDS hits 0.

- Need to investigate a bit more how everyone runs their mixing stations. Not everything makes sense yet but I have done almost no research to automated mixing stations for saltwater. The issue I have above with the auto valve is something I haven't been able to figure out how to do it decent though.

Looking forward to sharing the adventure! I was pretty sad to see a lot of threads pop up without follow-up and die after a few posts, time to make a difference!

Nice to meet you all!

 

[mizukage]

very interested to follow this build!

 

[Gizmoreef]

Mixing salt is pretty impossible to do it fully automated, however, has anyone considered 'dosing' premixed highly concentrated saltwater with a dosing pump into rodi water?

What would be the highest ppt one could have in a fluid solution? I would still need to prepare the high concentration fluid but I figure depending how much solution I can have at the ready, it would decrease the time spending at the mixing station to manually mix the dry salt into the rodi water.

Another thing I need to consider is there will always remain some salt in the salt container after emptying it and it would creep up over time?

Haven't really seen people go at it that way. Would definitely need to find a good way to do safety checks but with all the probes, when readings go off predefined settings there are plenty of ways to notify this on my phone.

Like I said, not something I have figured or planned out yet, but just a random idea crossing my mind perhaps some of you can give some feedback on.

 

[Gizmoreef]

Ok, final pieces of equipment except for the Kessil lights should arrive today or tomorrow.

What is arriving?
- Extra Y-nozzle kit, only had one that came with the tank, maybe a packing mistake from waterbox?
- Microbe-Lift Coralline Algae Accelerator (gonna give this a go, any experiences with these types of products here?)
- 2 times Nero 5. Was really trying to decide between the Orbit Gyre or the Nero's. Let's see if I like em. Can always add or change later
- Schego PTC heater 200W with TR2 Schego controller (going to use the Apex as a failsafe if heater/TR2 gets stuck in ON setting). Still gotta add a failover heater but not the most urgent thing.


The Cycle Plan
It's about time to start the cycle without lights. I think I'm going to wrap the tank in cardboard aswel to keep things as dark as possible. Got my hands on ammonium chloride powder (hassle to find to be honest) and I got the Dr Tims One and Only (the European version) to start the cycle and speed it up a bit. After doing extensive research, I feel this is the cleanest way to start the cycle without adding unneccessary nutrients into the system. I watched a very interesting presentation by Dr Tim at Macna 2019 and I am going to follow his guidelines. If he is not the real expert, no one is

I will be cycling at a lower salinity as this improves the growth rate of bacteria. Around 18-20 PPT is perfect, after the cycle, increase the salinity to full strength over a couple of days. I will try to keep ammonia and nitrite under 5mg/L, if it goes above, waterchange to get it back under those values. Cycle temp will be around 85F/29C, after the cycle is complete, lower temp a bit per day so the bacteria cultures have time to adapt and there is no big die-off.


The Scape

Already made an arch scape with 3 main arches, it might be a bit too symmetrical for many peoples likings but I do kinda like what I have so far. After doing some research I figured I wanted as little rock/sand contact as possible. Makes it a LOT easier to clean the sand. Might change the scape a bit and this picture isn't the final version I have, it is a bit more assymetrical but haven't got a picture on hand. I will post the final picture of the scape when it's done

I added a liquid level sensor which fits the return chamber perfectly. I had some issues in my Waterbox Cube 10 sometimes where the return pomp would empty the return chamber when the mechanical filtration got a bit clogged (was in a freshwater setup). I don't see it happening that fast in a salt setup with regular mechanical filter sock maintenance but I might be mistaken. With the Apex I can program the return pump to go at a lower percentage of flow instead of a full cutoff so I still get circulation in the tank in case of a clogg or failure. System will notify me on the phone that something is up, I can fix it then and return to normal. Seems like a pretty safe thing to do. I rather have one to many failsafes than none at all.

 

[kevgib67]

Welcome, glad you are here and it looks like you are off to a great start.

 

[Gizmoreef]

What is the opinion on the scape? Does that look like enough rock? Or should I significantly increase the volume of rock in the tank?

 

[mizukage]

What is the opinion on the scape? Does that look like enough rock? Or should I significantly increase the volume of rock in the tank?

Personally, it does not look like there are enough hiding places for fish in the rock.

But you said it yourself you wanted minimal rock so this is as minimal
As you get.

 

[Gizmoreef]

Personally, it does not look like there are enough hiding places for fish in the rock.

But you said it yourself you wanted minimal rock so this is as minimal
As you get.

The thing I find hard is finding a balance between space for coral growth and still enough space for easy cleaning and maintenance.

 

[Gumbies R Us]

Ok, final pieces of equipment except for the Kessil lights should arrive today or tomorrow.

What is arriving?
- Extra Y-nozzle kit, only had one that came with the tank, maybe a packing mistake from waterbox?
- Microbe-Lift Coralline Algae Accelerator (gonna give this a go, any experiences with these types of products here?)
- 2 times Nero 5. Was really trying to decide between the Orbit Gyre or the Nero's. Let's see if I like em. Can always add or change later
- Schego PTC heater 200W with TR2 Schego controller (going to use the Apex as a failsafe if heater/TR2 gets stuck in ON setting). Still gotta add a failover heater but not the most urgent thing.


The Cycle Plan
It's about time to start the cycle without lights. I think I'm going to wrap the tank in cardboard aswel to keep things as dark as possible. Got my hands on ammonium chloride powder (hassle to find to be honest) and I got the Dr Tims One and Only (the European version) to start the cycle and speed it up a bit. After doing extensive research, I feel this is the cleanest way to start the cycle without adding unneccessary nutrients into the system. I watched a very interesting presentation by Dr Tim at Macna 2019 and I am going to follow his guidelines. If he is not the real expert, no one is

I will be cycling at a lower salinity as this improves the growth rate of bacteria. Around 18-20 PPT is perfect, after the cycle, increase the salinity to full strength over a couple of days. I will try to keep ammonia and nitrite under 5mg/L, if it goes above, waterchange to get it back under those values. Cycle temp will be around 85F/29C, after the cycle is complete, lower temp a bit per day so the bacteria cultures have time to adapt and there is no big die-off.


The Scape

Already made an arch scape with 3 main arches, it might be a bit too symmetrical for many peoples likings but I do kinda like what I have so far. After doing some research I figured I wanted as little rock/sand contact as possible. Makes it a LOT easier to clean the sand. Might change the scape a bit and this picture isn't the final version I have, it is a bit more assymetrical but haven't got a picture on hand. I will post the final picture of the scape when it's done

I added a liquid level sensor which fits the return chamber perfectly. I had some issues in my Waterbox Cube 10 sometimes where the return pomp would empty the return chamber when the mechanical filtration got a bit clogged (was in a freshwater setup). I don't see it happening that fast in a salt setup with regular mechanical filter sock maintenance but I might be mistaken. With the Apex I can program the return pump to go at a lower percentage of flow instead of a full cutoff so I still get circulation in the tank in case of a clogg or failure. System will notify me on the phone that something is up, I can fix it then and return to normal. Seems like a pretty safe thing to do. I rather have one to many failsafes than none at all.

Very nice looking aquascape, following along!

 

[mizukage]

The thing I find hard is finding a balance between space for coral growth and still enough space for easy cleaning and maintenance.

Yes it’s a challenge. Just gotta pick what’s more important to you and go in that direction.

Edit: did you consider a bare bottom (no sand) tank? That’s even easier maintenance

 

[Gizmoreef]

Yes it’s a challenge. Just gotta pick what’s more important to you and go in that direction.

Edit: did you consider a bare bottom (no sand) tank? That’s even easier maintenance

Really not interested in bare bottom.
The substrate is a key component for filtration and I like the natural look of it.

Ordered another box of real reef rock and I will probably add some more. Keep you posted!

 

[Gizmoreef]

Ok some updates.

Since I still had the Waterbox Cube 10 and all the equipment needed, I decided to give that a go aswel.

Dosed it with ammonia chloride and my wife said the kitchen smelled funny and prefered I didn't do it there.
She reminded me we had another kitchen in our office space (which actually is next to my office) which I kinda forgot because we never use it.

Decided to turn it into... THE LAB

It really is a luxury to have spaces like this and since it is right next to my office where my tanks are at, this is a lot better than filling vials on my computerdesk.

I also finalized the scape on the 50.3.
Decided not to fill it up yet as I am waiting for a few extra supports for the desk which should be arriving around tuesday. Don't want to risk it with all the extra weight even though it is a pretty sturdy desk.

I am really pleased with the scape. It's hard to show it on picture in my opinion but there is decent depth, lots of hiding spaces and a lot of light exposed rock perfect for corals. Plenty of crevices aswel which should allow for a good flow through the reef rock.

Very excited!!

 

[Gizmoreef]

Short Cycling Update Day 2- Waterbox Cube 10

Ammonia still at 2.50 ppm, nitrite at 8, nitrate at 0.
Daily dosing Tims One and Only + Coralline.
I'm surprised the ammonia didn't decrease one bit but it detected nitrites already.

Perhaps something to do with the Dr Tims or the live sand?

The main tank - Waterbox 50.3
Really hope to start the cycle on the main Waterbox 50.3 later this week. Only need the supporting struts for the desk and ready to fill it up.

I included another picture from a slightly different angle that shows the scape a bit better in my opinion.

This is my first reef aquascape and only my third or fourth one ever so any feedback is much appreciated!

 

[Gabe]

Mixing salt is pretty impossible to do it fully automated, however, has anyone considered 'dosing' premixed highly concentrated saltwater with a dosing pump into rodi water?

What would be the highest ppt one could have in a fluid solution? I would still need to prepare the high concentration fluid but I figure depending how much solution I can have at the ready, it would decrease the time spending at the mixing station to manually mix the dry salt into the rodi water.

Another thing I need to consider is there will always remain some salt in the salt container after emptying it and it would creep up over time?

Haven't really seen people go at it that way. Would definitely need to find a good way to do safety checks but with all the probes, when readings go off predefined settings there are plenty of ways to notify this on my phone.

Like I said, not something I have figured or planned out yet, but just a random idea crossing my mind perhaps some of you can give some feedback on.

I think this idea is really interesting. The only thing not automated in my tank right now is adding salt and simple maintenance. Salt is definitely the most annoying.

With this idea you are adding the same amount of salt to the system, as you know. But now you also need 3 containers - High Concentration Salt, Normal Concentration Salt, and RODI containers. According to wikipedia, I think you could get up over 200ppt. Another thought is that you might need to worry slightly about the pumps lifespan at that concentration.

But the benefits could be adding physical salt 6 times less frequently if you can really mix 200 ppt stably and not tear through pumps. If you have the water changes automated and the space to pull this off, it could definitely be worth figuring out. You could probably also have a much smaller "Normal Concentration Salt" container. Definitely worth thinking about container sizes in this situation after testing it out a bit.

Looking forward to the build. Best of luck.

 

[ZzyzxRiver]

I’m planning on getting a waterbox 50.3 in a couple months as well so I’m looking forward to following your progress!

 

[Gizmoreef]

I think this idea is really interesting. The only thing not automated in my tank right now is adding salt and simple maintenance. Salt is definitely the most annoying.

With this idea you are adding the same amount of salt to the system, as you know. But now you also need 3 containers - High Concentration Salt, Normal Concentration Salt, and RODI containers. According to wikipedia, I think you could get up over 200ppt. Another thought is that you might need to worry slightly about the pumps lifespan at that concentration.

But the benefits could be adding physical salt 6 times less frequently if you can really mix 200 ppt stably and not tear through pumps. If you have the water changes automated and the space to pull this off, it could definitely be worth figuring out. You could probably also have a much smaller "Normal Concentration Salt" container. Definitely worth thinking about container sizes in this situation after testing it out a bit.

Looking forward to the build. Best of luck.

I think a very interesting approach would be using peristaltic pumps. These are not prone to corrosion and would be reliable over longer periods of time in my opinion? Would also allow for very precise dosing of the salt.

I’m surprised no one has tried this before? Or maybe they were not successful and the idea faded into obscurity

 

[Gizmoreef]

Started day 3 on the Cube 10.

Detected Nitrates after about 48 hours even though it's obviously very low at 0.5ppm.
Seems like the Dr Tims is doing its job. Jej!

I am surprised I'm still measuring the exact same ammonia amount as when I started 48 hours ago.

Also received confirmation the support legs for the 50.3 are arriving tomorrow. Might fill her up tomorrow depending on how busy my day is.

 

[Gabe]

I think a very interesting approach would be using peristaltic pumps. These are not prone to corrosion and would be reliable over longer periods of time in my opinion? Would also allow for very precise dosing of the salt.

I’m surprised no one has tried this before? Or maybe they were not successful and the idea faded into obscurity

I think that would be needed to mix “HC salt” with water. I was thinking of the pumps inside tanks for circulation in the HC tank. I would think it needs a level of flow to keep the salt dissolved. A heater would even theoretically help to that effect.

 

[Gizmoreef]

I think that would be needed to mix “HC salt” with water. I was thinking of the pumps inside tanks for circulation in the HC tank. I would think it needs a level of flow to keep the salt dissolved. A heater would even theoretically help to that effect.

A magnetic mixer might be a solution or just a plain industrial top down mixer. We have 1000 liter barrels in our production facility that have these types of mixers on them. Less chance for corrosion to creep into the motor or servo. I feel that shouldn’t be too hard to solve.

 

[Gizmoreef]

I decided to move the Cube 10 into its own build thread as it makes more sense.
You can follow the progress here: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/waterbox-cube-10-the-softie-sidekick.1078061/

The supports have arrived for the 50.3!
10pm here local so not going to spend a few hours now to get the tank going but hopefully tomorrow I will have some time after work.

Really curious to see how this tank is going to turn out. The Cube has a pretty basic scape but the more I look at the 50.3, the more I like the scape on it. Nice little reef with room for the fish to swim around all the rocks.

Also got to look into getting a quarantine tank going. I have decided that every piece of coral/fish will get QT beforehand and I am considering doing a wide spectrum of preemtive treatments for broad-spectrum diseases. Any opinions on this are very welcome.