Very researched, Tank setup with details, opinions? i have many questions

[CKlein]

Hello all!
This is my first post on the site, and I’m just going to get straight down to business. I’m been in the Aquarium hobby for many years, but up until now, I’ve only had freshwater aquariums. I have had many, and have had them thrive. But I’m currently looking into and planning a saltwater reef aquarium..

I’ve done a ton of research on all the topics and products that I need, I’ve learned the science of everything, and believe I have a pretty good first time setup.

If you knew me, you’d know I am an extreme planner. So much so that I’ve listed all the specific products that I need (brand and model and everything), the arrangement of tanks, all the plumbing, settings of each tank. I have even made some diagrams on paint. I have thought of (what I think is) everything.

Let me describe my hopeful setup, and ask many questions:

Basic Setup:
I hope to have my main tank be a 55 or 75-gallon tank, each 48†long and 20†deep. I hope to have a refugium setup next to the tank on display. I am going to school for marine biology and would love to observe the “behind the scenes†of the reef tank. I plan to use an old 10 gallon glass tank I have. I will use a two-compartment sump since my refugium is separate

Main Tank:
A 55-gallon glass tank I have, with stand. I will use water through an “AquaticLife RO Buddie 50 GPD“ mixed with “Instant Ocean & Reef Crystals 50 Gallon†(I’ll make 100G upfront and keep extra in air tight container for top offs) I will use only “Tropic Eden Reeflakes Aragonite Sand 30lb†plus the leftover live sand from however much I buy. I will use ~45 lbs. live rock from Dr.Foster/Smith many people say it is very porous, and not as much is needed, so I think I can get away with 45 lbs. live rock and 30 lbs. base rock for a total of 75 lbs. for the system. (if that’s not enough I will get either 2, 45 lb. orders of live rock or 45 lbs. live rock and 50 lbs. base rock depending on your opinions.) I’m looking at a 48†lighting fixture with 4 florescent blue/red lights and what appears to be one metal halide (I’m awaiting a follow up email.) I plan to fill it with life from the following lists.
Corals:
Mushroom Corals
Leather Corals
Zooanthids
Button Polyps
Fish:
Cardinal Fish
Gobies
Blennies
Gramma
Dottybacks
Clownfish
Coral Banded Shrimp
Reef Safe Eels
Cleaners:
Dwarf Cerith
Dwarf Planaxis
Brittle Star
Serpent Star
Florida Cerith
Florida Fighting Conch
Fuzzy Chiton
Nassarius Vibex
Pencil Urchin
Periwinkles

Refugium:
a 10-gallon glass tank I have. Will receive water from main tank, I will use a ball valve to control the flow (for slower flow through the refugium) I will use a “Super Sucking Siphon†(basically an overflow box) to drain the water as fast as It enters. I will have 2†of live sand, live rock (15 – 20 lbs.), various macroalgae (cheato, red mangroves, red Gracilaria, etc…), cleaners to keep it aesthetically pleasing (Nerite Snails, Dwarf Planaxis, Dwarf Cerith) and of course… PODS! (Pouches from reefcleaners.com look promising.) I will light my refugium with a 6500K CFL and reflective dome from Home Depot.

Sump Tank: water flow: left to right
I will have water coming from the overflow of my main tank into the leftmost compartment of the “Eshopps RS-75 Reef Sumpâ€. In this compartment is the filter sock. I will also add leftover live rock (5 – 10 lbs.) after my tank is filled. I have regular Aqueon Quiet Flow filters (30 and 55/75) that I have thought about taking out the media (filter screens, bio-grid) and filling the filter with bio balls, activated carbon, more live rock, etc… considering the protein skimmer will go in the first compartment. I will use a “Reef Octopus NWB110 4†Pinwheel†protein skimmer. After this chamber, it flows through the sponge. In the next chamber, two things happen. This chamber is where two water sources meet, first from the skimmer side of the sump, and the second from the drainage of the refugium (this way the pods don’t have to go through the protein skimmer, I’ve read that a skimmer is too much for most pods to handle, but water pumps are not nearly as bad.) after the two sources meet, they go into two “Hydor Centrifugal Pump 300†pumps. These two pumps I will keep separated, having pump A flow into the left or middle part of the tank (depending on overflow location) and pump B flow into the right side of the tank (I hoped having two flows would eliminate the need for power heads in the tank.)

Plumbing: starting from main tank
I will have an “Eshopps Overflow Box PF-300†on the back of my tank. I will use 1†PVC pipe to drain the overflow. It will go to two places. I will have a tee in the PVC that allows some of the tank water to go through a ½†(or smaller) PVC to the refugium. (I’ve read it’s best to have refugium water come straight from the tank). The overflow water will also continue in a 1†PVC to the leftmost sump compartment (skimmer and live rock). It will go through the skimmer, to the pump where it will meet back up with the refugium water that will be drained from the refugium using a “Super Sucking Siphonâ€. The two pumps will pump the skimmed/refugium combo water up to two different points in the tank, hopefully creating enough flow to eliminate power heads. The tube will drain above the water surface (for a few reasons, 1 to not create a siphon in case of power outage, 2 to get a little more “gravity assisted†flow speed and 3 to disturb the surface promoting oxygen exchange and preventing oily layer on top)

Now for some questions!
1. Is the “Eshopps RS-75 Reef Sump†big enough for the setup I’ve described?
2. I know about the 1-2# live rock per gallon for the tank, is it the same for the sump and refugium?
3. If live rock and the protein skimmer are in the same compartment, is there any chance the skimmer will get damaged?
4. should I use a filter with the original media taken out and replaced?
4b. if I should, which size should I use, my the Aqueon 30 or 55/75?
4c. what should I put in it? Bio balls? More live rock? Activated carbon?
5. I know the bar on my tank limits me, but should I put the overflow box in between the two flow sources I plan to have? Or should I put it in the corner with the flow sources in the middle and other corner?
6. Is the “Reef Octopus NWB110 4†Pinwheel†protein skimmer good? Is it going to be adequate for this setup?
7. is the sponge in the “Eshopps RS-75 Reef Sump†similar in result to a bubble trap in the sump?
8. will my two “Hydor Centrifugal Pump 300†pumps at 300 GPH each, be enough water flow to eliminate powerheads?
9. how many snails would you recommend for the 10G refugium? how many sand sifters? How many above sand?
10. my stand is near it’s weight limit, does 20 pounds of sand displace 20 pounds of water?
10b. does 50 pounds live rock displace 50 pounds water? What about base rock?
10c. would you suggest I get a new stand?
11. what is a good timeline to follow when wetting up a tank? I’ve heard you set the water, sand, and rock, wait for ammonia to be 0, set up refugium, wait a month for population to grow, add fish, wait a month and finally add coral. Can you give me some more specifics?
12. what would be a good group of fish and corals and cleaners? (don’t limit yourself to my lists, but try to limit yourself to semi-easy, first-timey creatures.)
13. I’ve heard about having flipped cycles for refugium and tank to balance pH changes with photosynthesis, should I put something to block light between them? Or will one have a “moonlight†effect on the other when it’s on?


Thank you so much for all your time reading and replying. Like I said, I want to learn as much as I can, so don’t hold back. Anything you think I should know about maintaining and setting up a saltwater reef aquarium, tell me. If some of my info is way off, or something isn’t even mentioned here, tell me!

 

[Pete polyp]

First, you shouldn't top off with saltwater, just use rodi water. The salt will not evaporate so you just need fresh water to top off with. I would suggest using the 75 gallon tank instead of the 55. Trust me when I say the extra 6" width will be worth it. You can use the 45lb of rock you intend to purchase to seed any amount of base rock you wish to have. It may take longer to have a strong biosystem if you use lots of base rock, but the end result will be the same. I'm not familiar with the sump you want to use so I can't say if it will be big enough. You will want your sump big enough to put all equipment in like.skimmer, heaters etc. I would designate a chamber for the equipment alone and not add live rock or sand in that chamber, this is where you want your skimmer. I'm not sure what you mean by "filter" the skimmer and fuge would be your filter. You will probably want to use granulated carbon, but can do this in a fluidized reactor, or in a media bag placed in the flow inside the sump. You can place the overflow box anywhere you would like. It will make no difference if its in a corner or middle. I was actually considering the same skimmer for my current build. Its a reef octopus so its probably a good skimmer. I ended up getting a bubble magus curve 5 instead after several reef octopus owners encouraged me to go with bubble magus. 600gph will not be anywhere close to adequate flow for either a 55 or 75. You will want to turn the tank volume at least 25x per hour. I have somewhere around 1500gph going through my 29. There is no specific time that you can add this or that to any tank, some take longer than others. You will want to start slowly and keep an eye on your N to make sure you aren't adding to quickly. My last setup was fast, it was ready for fish in 7 days. Lots of factors can play a role in this, so testing is necessary. I personally wouldn't put any clean up crew inside the fuge, this is where you want nasty stuff to grow instead of the display. Using a reverse lighting schedule on your fuge and display will help keep the Ph swing minimal. I like a variety in my cuc with several different snails and hermits. Most cuc will be easy to keep and require no special attention. I hope this helps answer your questions

 

[CKlein]

as i was waiting for replies i sort of decided on a 75 gallon tank with a 55 gallon sump, and that's right, i forgot about the salt not evaporating, it's in my notes, but slipped my mind as i was typing, by filter i just mean a regular freshwater aquarium filter, it takes in water, pushes it through physical filter (mesh), chemical (carbon), biological (biogrid), then wet dry aeration, it would just serve as an extra chamber with it's own plumbing basically. i was thinking of replacing all the media with live rock, although it sounds like the current media would be good. maybe just add some small live rock chunks to the extra space in the filter. i had just read online that you should circulate the water 6 - 10x per hour for saltwater reefs, and that's what i use for my freshwaters also, so i used all my same calculations as if it was freshwater. i would just want a few above sand snails to keep the walls clean so i could view inside. and i've heard snails and crabs can fight often (more frequently than two random fish). this has answered many of my questions, thank you very much.

 

[CKlein]

i'm also now reading that turnover should be 10-50x, 10x of which is return, and 10-40x is powerheads. which leads me to believe that no, the two pumps will not make up for the powerheads.

 

[KoleTang]

I'm about to turn in for the night, so I'm keeping my answers short. If you need me to elaborate feel free to ask.

You only need one return pump. 10-50x is pretty is a pretty broad range. For soft corals 20-30x should be fine. In comparison, my SPS dominant is 50-60x turnover.

Pounds of liverock per gallon is a made up rule. In fact, you can save a good amount of money just going with dry rock (check out bulk reef supply) instead.

There is no reason for an aqueon filter. I suppose you could use it to run carbon, otherwise just drop the carbon in a media bag in the sump.

Overflow boxes and siphons are bad news bears. Just a matter of time before a flood on your floor. I highly recommend drilling the tank and plumbing with a bulkhead.

Could you post a link to the return pump? I don't think that thing is going to have enough head pressure to lift the water to the tank.

Yup, the sponge area is a bubble trap.

No need for snails in the refugium, all they will do is eat the stuff you are trying to grow. Put the snails in the tank to help keep it clean.

If you have ANY worries about your stand being able to hold the tank, then get/build a new stand. It's spooky to put a 1,000+ lbs. on a rickety stand.

Pounds of water, sand, and live rock are not equal. But yes, the sand and rock displace water. Although it's going to be a mix of math and estimating to figure out how much.

Here is some info on cycling the tank. I have used this stuff and it works great, although I recommend using a small fish like a chromis instead of the ammonia additive. Bacteria in a Bottle: Snake Oil or Worth Trusting?

A reverse cycle is a good way to stabilize pH. The refugium is usually under the stand so light isn't a concern most of the time.http://www.mrsaltwatertank.com/bacteria-in-a-bottle-snake-oil-or-worth-trusting/

 

[Pete polyp]

Your decision for a 75 display is a good choice. The 55 sump would work, but will limit you to what equipment you can fit inside your stand. I believe you're talking about a canister filter, and it can be used if you would like. As far as putting biological media (bioballs, live rock) its not necessary. Live rock and deep sand bed will be the biological filter for your system. You may want to put a 4" deep sand bed in the sump for this. Since you have decided to use a 75, I would suggest drilling the tank for drains instead of using the overflow boxes. For water movement in the display I would suggest using 2 jebao wp25. They're cheap, but top of the line adjustable powerheads with controllers. Instead of using a 10 gallon for a fuge you should just make a section in the sump for the fuge. Just make one chamber for the deep sand bed, some live rock and macroalgae. You can pick up a 2 bulb t5 to light your fuge for pretty cheap. What lighting options are you considering for the display?

 

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[CKlein]

i have seen the in sump refugiums, and from what i understand, they're wildly easier to maintain. i however would like the refugium outside the sump, next to the main tank. considering it is usually under the tank, i'll put some type of opaque barrier between the tanks.

here is the pump, Aquarium Water Circulation and Powerheads: Hydor Centrifugal Pico Evolution Mini Pump
i was planning to use two of the largest (300 or pico 1200) pumps, although now that i realize two return lines won't makeup for powerheads, the double return doesn't interest me, so if one stronger pump is better, i'll do that.

 

[Pete polyp]

If you are planning on am exterior refugium that will be beside the display then I would suggest drilling that tank and having a gravity fed refugium. You could use a powerhead to pump water up to the fuge and have it overflow directly into the display. I would also suggest going bigger than 10 gallon since its not in the sump. A 20 gallon or 29 would be much more beneficial IMO.

 

[KoleTang]

i have seen the in sump refugiums, and from what i understand, they're wildly easier to maintain. i however would like the refugium outside the sump, next to the main tank. considering it is usually under the tank, i'll put some type of opaque barrier between the tanks.

here is the pump, Aquarium Water Circulation and Powerheads: Hydor Centrifugal Pico Evolution Mini Pump
i was planning to use two of the largest (300 or pico 1200) pumps, although now that i realize two return lines won't makeup for powerheads, the double return doesn't interest me, so if one stronger pump is better, i'll do that.

Those pumps will be pushing less than 100 gph at 2 feet. Not going to cut it.

 

[CKlein]

Those pumps will be pushing less than 100 gph at 2 feet. Not going to cut it.

okay, then can you suggest a better pump, or provide some type of chart that will help me determine which pumps will be sufficient?

 

[KoleTang]

This is the pump I used on my 57g before I plumbed the tank into the basement. Tunze Recirculation Pump/Powerhead Silence

 

[Pete polyp]

I'm using a sicce syncra 5.0 for my return/ manifold. Without a manifold the 3.0 would be sufficient. The tunze pump that was suggested is actually a rebranded sicce, so they're the same thing.