Versa Pumps for AWC

Jerry Ebner · Mar 7, 2020

I setup my versa pumps for Auto Water Changes.

In Mobius app I've setup my two versa pumps for AWC
one to withdrawal and the other to Fill
Nothing is live yet no lined in the tank.
32 cube figuring half a gallon a day water change ( subject to change)
Attached Blue is fresh saltwater and red being wastewater.
I was spoiled by neptune systems as the wizard there did all the calculations and whatnot.

Anyone care to give me a thumbs up or alert me to a mistake in my setup before I run lines and try this live ?
thanks
Jerry

#1Fellowreefer · Mar 8, 2020

I plan to do the same hopefully today when I get a chance and I will be using the Versa for the AWC as well. The way I have setup for my new build of total water volume of approximately 200 gallons I will setup my APEX EB832 with three time statements and change 1 gallon on three different intervals.

This is for removal of Dirty Water Out
Fallback OFF
Set OFF
If Time 09:00 to 09:15 Then ON
If Time 15:00 to 15:15 Then ON
If Time 21:00 to 21:15 Then ON
If Output AWC_STATUS = ON Then OFF
If Output Maintenance = ON Then OFF

This is for Filling back Fresh Mixed Saltwater
Fallback OFF
Set OFF
If Time 09:16 to 09:30 Then ON
If Time 15:16 to 15:30 Then ON
If Time 21:16 to 21:30 Then ON
If Output AWC_STATUS = ON Then OFF
If Output Maintenance = ON Then OFF

I have also setup a AWC_STATUS virtual outlet to alert me when my saltwater container filled up again and time to add salt

I also have three optical sensors low, mid, and high level to open/close the Solenoid valves to fill my RODI reservoir and Saltwater reservoir automatically.

what you have done is good but you want to make sure when the water is pulled out and filled back in during the time the heater, skimmer are turned off and return pumps are running at 1% maybe so you don’t run into a burned heater or skimmer overflow. Reach out to me should you need more details. Hope this helps.

Jerry Ebner · Mar 8, 2020

#1Fellowreefer said:
I plan to do the same hopefully today when I get a chance and I will be using the Versa for the AWC as well. The way I have setup for my new build of total water volume of approximately 200 gallons I will setup my APEX EB832 with three time statements and change 1 gallon on three different intervals.

This is for removal of Dirty Water Out
Fallback OFF
Set OFF
If Time 09:00 to 09:15 Then ON
If Time 15:00 to 15:15 Then ON
If Time 21:00 to 21:15 Then ON
If Output AWC_STATUS = ON Then OFF
If Output Maintenance = ON Then OFF

This is for Filling back Fresh Mixed Saltwater
Fallback OFF
Set OFF
If Time 09:16 to 09:30 Then ON
If Time 15:16 to 15:30 Then ON
If Time 21:16 to 21:30 Then ON
If Output AWC_STATUS = ON Then OFF
If Output Maintenance = ON Then OFF

I have also setup a AWC_STATUS virtual outlet to alert me when my saltwater container filled up again and time to add salt

I also have three optical sensors low, mid, and high level to open/close the Solenoid valves to fill my RODI reservoir and Saltwater reservoir automatically.

what you have done is good but you want to make sure when the water is pulled out and filled back in during the time the heater, skimmer are turned off and return pumps are running at 1% maybe so you don’t run into a burned heater or skimmer overflow. Reach out to me should you need more details. Hope this helps.

I was not planning to use my apex with the versa pumps but if i did I would need to add a new power bar.

#1Fellowreefer · Mar 8, 2020

Jerry Ebner said:
I was not planning to use my apex with the versa pumps but if i did I would need to add a new power bar.

Well you can still use it without the additional power bars I only have that as additional failsafe in case the Versa didn’t stop on the time and just kept sucking water out or kept feeding water in the time statement will cut the power off to the outlet in that 15 minutes. I also will have a high level optical sensor in the sump as additional failsafe as I will have two leak sensors on left and right side of the tank to shutoff the entire AWC. But just make sure the time are set to turn on the pumps to suck water out and then few minutes later have the timer to feed fresh mixed saltwater back in. Also I assume you have APEX just make sure you program the outlet for heater and skimmer to turn off during the time you set for AWC.. hope this helps you..

Jerry Ebner · Mar 8, 2020

#1Fellowreefer said:
Well you can still use it without the additional power bars I only have that as additional failsafe in case the Versa didn’t stop on the time and just kept sucking water out or kept feeding water in the time statement will cut the power off to the outlet in that 15 minutes. I also will have a high level optical sensor in the sump as additional failsafe as I will have two leak sensors on left and right side of the tank to shutoff the entire AWC. But just make sure the time are set to turn on the pumps to suck water out and then few minutes later have the timer to feed fresh mixed saltwater back in. Also I assume you have APEX just make sure you program the outlet for heater and skimmer to turn off during the time you set for AWC.. hope this helps you..

Good information thanks for the time you put in posting all the fail safes yes I should do that Need to invest in Breakout box for sure.

Sisterlimonpot · Mar 9, 2020

Jerry Ebner said:
I setup my versa pumps for Auto Water Changes.

In Mobius app I've setup my two versa pumps for AWC
one to withdrawal and the other to Fill
Nothing is live yet no lined in the tank.
32 cube figuring half a gallon a day water change ( subject to change)
Attached Blue is fresh saltwater and red being wastewater.
I was spoiled by neptune systems as the wizard there did all the calculations and whatnot.

Anyone care to give me a thumbs up or alert me to a mistake in my setup before I run lines and try this live ?
thanks
Jerry

That is a solid plan, I use 2 versas to do what you're doing except I run both pumps continuously.

What I mean is that you have both pumps running at the same time, removing and adding the same amount. This works great for me because the tank water volume remains the same and you're not disrupting other subsystems on the tank.

What Salim does is the other way to do awc with versas. The added measure to that is that you have to disable your ato system because your removing xx water first them replenishing it. If you dont disable ato it can top off while you're removing old salt. In time your tank will lose salinity.

Sisterlimonpot · Mar 9, 2020

#1Fellowreefer said:
I plan to do the same hopefully today when I get a chance and I will be using the Versa for the AWC as well. The way I have setup for my new build of total water volume of approximately 200 gallons I will setup my APEX EB832 with three time statements and change 1 gallon on three different intervals.

This is for removal of Dirty Water Out
Fallback OFF
Set OFF
If Time 09:00 to 09:15 Then ON
If Time 15:00 to 15:15 Then ON
If Time 21:00 to 21:15 Then ON
If Output AWC_STATUS = ON Then OFF
If Output Maintenance = ON Then OFF

This is for Filling back Fresh Mixed Saltwater
Fallback OFF
Set OFF
If Time 09:16 to 09:30 Then ON
If Time 15:16 to 15:30 Then ON
If Time 21:16 to 21:30 Then ON
If Output AWC_STATUS = ON Then OFF
If Output Maintenance = ON Then OFF

I have also setup a AWC_STATUS virtual outlet to alert me when my saltwater container filled up again and time to add salt

I also have three optical sensors low, mid, and high level to open/close the Solenoid valves to fill my RODI reservoir and Saltwater reservoir automatically.

what you have done is good but you want to make sure when the water is pulled out and filled back in during the time the heater, skimmer are turned off and return pumps are running at 1% maybe so you don’t run into a burned heater or skimmer overflow. Reach out to me should you need more details. Hope this helps.

Salim,
When programming your versas in mobius, are you setting them to constant? And then relying on apex to turn them on and off?

One concern I have with using apex in that manner is that I noticed that powering up the power supplies weren't uniformed, nor was the time it took the versa to power up and start dosing. And when there are slight delays like that, you're no longer utilizing the accuracy of the versa programming.

I can see having a fail safe with the apex, if you're set on using apex, I would program the mobius to schedule the versas like you have set in apex, and have the apex turn the versas on 1 minute before and 1 minute after the mobius schedule. That way you give the versas plenty of time to power up and you will be getting the accuracy that is build into the versas.

One other thing I didn't see in your apex programming is that you don't have the ato shut down during each water change event... you'll want to disable it during the awc events.

#1Fellowreefer · Mar 9, 2020

Sisterlimonpot said:
That is a solid plan, I use 2 versas to do what you're doing except I run both pumps continuously.

What I mean is that you have both pumps running at the same time, removing and adding the same amount. This works great for me because the tank water volume remains the same and you're not disrupting other subsystems on the tank.

What Salim does is the other way to do awc with versas. The added measure to that is that you have to disable your ato system because your removing xx water first them replenishing it. If you dont disable ato it can top off while you're removing old salt. In time your tank will lose salinity.

Yes that’s what I meant when I said etc.. but yes the heater, skimmer and ATK/ATO Outlet’s must be coded as follows. In my case the outlet I have the Versa to remove the dirty water is AWC_DirtyOut and the outlet for Versa fill back the fresh saltwater back is AWC_FreshIn

Codes to add under skimmer, ATK/ATO and heater (these codes are based on my setup yours could be different depending on what you have named them)

If Outlet AWC_DirtyOut = On Then Off
If Outlet AWC_FreshIn = On Then Off

thanks @Sisterlimonpot for pointing out what I had missed

#1Fellowreefer · Mar 9, 2020

Sisterlimonpot said:
Salim,
When programming your versas in mobius, are you setting them to constant? And then relying on apex to turn them on and off?

One concern I have with using apex in that manner is that I noticed that powering up the power supplies weren't uniformed, nor was the time it took the versa to power up and start dosing. And when there are slight delays like that, you're no longer utilizing the accuracy of the versa programming.

I can see having a fail safe with the apex, if you're set on using apex, I would program the mobius to schedule the versas like you have set in apex, and have the apex turn the versas on 1 minute before and 1 minute after the mobius schedule. That way you give the versas plenty of time to power up and you will be getting the accuracy that is build into the versas.

One other thing I didn't see in your apex programming is that you don't have the ato shut down during each water change event... you'll want to disable it during the awc events.

Yes I did calibrate the Versa last night and noticed how long it takes to connect so I have given a 2 minutes delay in Versa to start pulling the water out and back in so it allows the pumps to be ready to go to work. Also I would like to know while doing both removing and adding at the same time how much of a loss of fresh saltwater are you taking as adding and removing at the same time should affect some what in waste of fresh saltwater added back right??
I did the way I did is because I wasn’t able to find a good reason to show me the effectiveness of doing both simultaneously..

Sisterlimonpot · Mar 9, 2020

thanks Sisterlimonpot for pointing out what I had missed

Salim, you're response was spot on

I've been doing it simultaneously for a few months without a swing in salinity. Theoretically you're not disrupting anything. The only thing I would be concerned with is if you're ato is pumping in rodi water close to where you're removing old tank water, that could increase salinity over time.

Otherwise as long as you have both pumps calibrated in the position you're using them and your new salt water is mixed the same as the tank, then continuous use is just an easier approach for me.

Your approach is solid! And I wanted to set it up that way just so I can have experience with it. But I feel there isnt a big enough benefit to having the added steps. I chose to keep it simple.

toady00 · Mar 9, 2020

#1Fellowreefer said:
Yes I did calibrate the Versa last night and noticed how long it takes to connect so I have given a 2 minutes delay in Versa to start pulling the water out and back in so it allows the pumps to be ready to go to work. Also I would like to know while doing both removing and adding at the same time how much of a loss of fresh saltwater are you taking as adding and removing at the same time should affect some what in waste of fresh saltwater added back right??
I did the way I did is because I wasn’t able to find a good reason to show me the effectiveness of doing both simultaneously..

I feel like you could easily test this. Test your nitrates in your tank, do a simultaneous water change, and then run another nitrate test on the waste water. If you're nitrates where 10 in the tank and 5 in the waste water then roughly half of your fresh saltwater was wasted. I'm guessing that unless the lines where really close to each other, that you wont see any difference between the tank water and the waste water, and if you do, adjusting the lines would probably get you close enough.

Jerry Ebner · Mar 9, 2020

I have it taking dirty water out in the first chamber and running fresh saltwater back to the return chamber area . Just as I do with my DOS setup on my other tank.

When you guys talk about constant setup I didn't set up that way no idea or guides on what to do. So far both are adding and removing at the same time so no water change has happened in the sump the water has been level. I may have to revisit my setup but two days now it has been working fine.1 to pull out and one to add at the same dose time. Both machines are calibrated.

I do wish I could see a log like I could in apex fusion that would be nice

Sisterlimonpot · Mar 9, 2020

I personally believe that most hobbyist have adopted the multiple daily schedule option because DOS, Maxi, spectrapure, kamoer etc were set to a fixed speed or had a limited choices of fixed speeds. You were stuck with what ever the manufacturer programmed the dosing rate to be. The user never had the option to run a 24/7 water change schedule.

With the Versa, we're not constrained that way, we can program the pump to run 24/7 at any speed to accommodate the percentage of water to change within a 24 hour period. This helps in tank stability and eliminates the need to temperature acclimate our new water being pumped in.

I think over time as more people get the versa, we will see this become the norm.

#1Fellowreefer · Mar 9, 2020

Sisterlimonpot said:
I personally believe that most hobbyist have adopted the multiple daily schedule option because DOS, Maxi, spectrapure, kamoer etc were set to a fixed speed or had a limited choices of fixed speeds. You were stuck with what ever the manufacturer programmed the dosing rate to be. The user never had the option to run a 24/7 water change schedule.

With the Versa, we're not constrained that way, we can program the pump to run 24/7 at any speed to accommodate the percentage of water to change within a 24 hour period. This helps in tank stability and eliminates the need to temperature acclimate our new water being pumped in.

I think over time as more people get the versa, we will see this become the norm.

I agree to that and it’s just a matter of time ppl getting their hands on the Versa pumps as they become readily available. I will try this method in my 46 gallon tank and see how it works and will make adjustments if needed in the new build.. @Sisterlimonpot i just PM you.

Jerry Ebner · Mar 9, 2020

Sisterlimonpot said:
I personally believe that most hobbyist have adopted the multiple daily schedule option because DOS, Maxi, spectrapure, kamoer etc were set to a fixed speed or had a limited choices of fixed speeds. You were stuck with what ever the manufacturer programmed the dosing rate to be. The user never had the option to run a 24/7 water change schedule.

With the Versa, we're not constrained that way, we can program the pump to run 24/7 at any speed to accommodate the percentage of water to change within a 24 hour period. This helps in tank stability and eliminates the need to temperature acclimate our new water being pumped in.

I think over time as more people get the versa, we will see this become the norm.

I think your right I was thinking in such a way that the DOS limited me to think. good point.

heifinator · Mar 17, 2020

For what it is worth I just setup my Versa with a constant water change. I have pump1 set to add 5ml/min of new saltwater and pump2 set to remove 5ml/min of tank saltwater. This should change about 2 gallons daily.

I have the line pulling water out of the tank only 1" into the water in my return chamber and then I have a float in my sump that turns the Versa off if the water level gets too high in sump. These I believe should act as good fail safes against any catastrophe. There is only about a 2" window where this system will operate which limits the low/high salinity damage potential.

The nice thing in this configuration is it is dead silent because the pump rate is low. I am also making the assumption that low speed continuous use is better for the pump then high intensity on/off cycles. Time will tell I suppose.

Jerry Ebner · Mar 17, 2020

heifinator said:
For what it is worth I just setup my Versa with a constant water change. I have pump1 set to add 5ml/min of new saltwater and pump2 set to remove 5ml/min of tank saltwater. This should change about 2 gallons daily.

I have the line pulling water out of the tank only 1" into the water in my return chamber and then I have a float in my sump that turns the Versa off if the water level gets too high in sump. These I believe should act as good fail safes against any catastrophe. There is only about a 2" window where this system will operate which limits the low/high salinity damage potential.

The nice thing in this configuration is it is dead silent because the pump rate is low. I am also making the assumption that low speed continuous use is better for the pump then high intensity on/off cycles. Time will tell I suppose.

I will have to research that failsafe sounds wise. Not sure how you did that ? was it with the apex and a breakout box ?

reefwiser · Mar 17, 2020

Sisterlimonpot said:
I personally believe that most hobbyist have adopted the multiple daily schedule option because DOS, Maxi, spectrapure, kamoer etc were set to a fixed speed or had a limited choices of fixed speeds. You were stuck with what ever the manufacturer programmed the dosing rate to be. The user never had the option to run a 24/7 water change schedule.

With the Versa, we're not constrained that way, we can program the pump to run 24/7 at any speed to accommodate the percentage of water to change within a 24 hour period. This helps in tank stability and eliminates the need to temperature acclimate our new water being pumped in.

I think over time as more people get the versa, we will see this become the norm.

You could always do this I have done it for years using a two head sterner running 5 minutes every hour for 24 hours a day. Nothing new about this at all