UWC Reaches Settlement with EPA
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gbroadbridge
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Google is your friend.
Actually it isn’t, but when a post has a “TLDR” with a link, one should be able to safely presume that the link provided would have some details in it.
All the details: UWC EPA Final Order
I think I’ve lost count of how many 3 letter agencies likely have me on a list.
I briefly scanned the Final Order and it seems that the Government is more concerned that UWC didn’t pay the extortion - I mean fees - to register their products than whether or not they actually work (I’ve never used them, so I don’t know if they do or they don’t). That’s a problem.
If UWC got busted because they’re selling snake oil that simply doesn’t work, I’d consider it a win.
I’m probably already teetering on the edge of too much politics, so I’ll just leave it at that. There’s certainly much more to say.
polyppal
2500 Club Member
What!?! Someone is actually facing consequences for their actions!
This takes me back to the greatest gif trolling thread in R2R history! (I’m still looking over my shoulder for the UWC hitman)
This takes me back to the greatest gif trolling thread in R2R history! (I’m still looking over my shoulder for the UWC hitman)
Backreefing
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Government involvement always means prices will go up and available products will be hard to find. I don’t know a lot about this issue. But it’s just more bad news.
Clarkjw2002
Active Member
Technically, anybody who used, or recommended, Bayer to dip corals is violating FIFRA because it is an off label use of the product so I would not recommend anybody use it--especially on a public forum.
Imagine a lot of the coral dips have what EPA would consider 25B ingredients, which are exempt from registration requirements. If not already registered as 25B they simply need to register, which is much cheaper than normal active ingredient registration. This is all those "all natural" insecticides with name your oil in it which, in reality do not really work. Actual organic pesticides like pyrethrum still go through the normal registration and maintenance process.
25B chemicals are analogous to the FDA GRAS chemicals on the food and drug side. Antibiotics fall under FDA so chemiclean would be under their purview. However, it's being used as a pesticide when controlling cyano so....
Also, if a company is already using an active that is already registered elsewhere, they still, at a minimum, need to register the label with the EPA--and this is must be renewed every year, or few years, can't remember. All this entails really is paying your fees--at least for the three labels I maintained for the DoD.
Imagine a lot of the coral dips have what EPA would consider 25B ingredients, which are exempt from registration requirements. If not already registered as 25B they simply need to register, which is much cheaper than normal active ingredient registration. This is all those "all natural" insecticides with name your oil in it which, in reality do not really work. Actual organic pesticides like pyrethrum still go through the normal registration and maintenance process.
25B chemicals are analogous to the FDA GRAS chemicals on the food and drug side. Antibiotics fall under FDA so chemiclean would be under their purview. However, it's being used as a pesticide when controlling cyano so....
Also, if a company is already using an active that is already registered elsewhere, they still, at a minimum, need to register the label with the EPA--and this is must be renewed every year, or few years, can't remember. All this entails really is paying your fees--at least for the three labels I maintained for the DoD.
Clarkjw2002
Active Member
Guess I should correct my all or none statement about essential oils. There are a few that work, like thyme oil for the control of varroa mites on bees, which is my go to for these buggers. Generally, all the companies that popped up with all natural mosquito control products after Zika are pushing snake oils. A lot of these products work a little or not very long.
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I think this is a good thing, but I expect some product prices to drastically rise so they can conform to this law, or they just won’t be available at all. If they have to prove to the EPA that these products work then that will likely add cost to their bottom line. So it’s great to eliminate the misinformation on the products, but other unintended consequences may also occur. Good thing I just use snails.
JDA
valonia challenge tank owners who got fixed using vibrant, where algaefix marine as a stand in didn't work (search the threads, there's plenty to find) disagree this was a bad product.
I understand you had to bust them as Chem police, they did mislabel clearly, and that was successful and you should feel a deep personal triumph in that destruction it was fair and just
but to say it was a bad product is simply ignoring a thousand positive outcomes, for valonia specifically, and now there's no stand in. It would be cooler if you were helping to fix some of those valonia tanks now with your better way, but I'm aware that's not the wheelhouse we're discussing.
I don't think what you did was good at all. I give you however 10/10 for engineering that business takedown, epic in fact.
Final side note searchable
We never cared what was in the bottle after the tanks were fixed. Chem police / tank fixers are not the same specialty. One cares about labels, the other cares about outcomes in pattern. We'll never agree for sure.
valonia challenge tank owners who got fixed using vibrant, where algaefix marine as a stand in didn't work (search the threads, there's plenty to find) disagree this was a bad product.
I understand you had to bust them as Chem police, they did mislabel clearly, and that was successful and you should feel a deep personal triumph in that destruction it was fair and just
but to say it was a bad product is simply ignoring a thousand positive outcomes, for valonia specifically, and now there's no stand in. It would be cooler if you were helping to fix some of those valonia tanks now with your better way, but I'm aware that's not the wheelhouse we're discussing.
I don't think what you did was good at all. I give you however 10/10 for engineering that business takedown, epic in fact.
Final side note searchable
We never cared what was in the bottle after the tanks were fixed. Chem police / tank fixers are not the same specialty. One cares about labels, the other cares about outcomes in pattern. We'll never agree for sure.
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UWC, if you're reading this from outside the forum login
you had a good business as far as outcomes go. I wonder if a seachem takedown is on the radar since their claims for prime are clearly mislabeled per studies in the Chem forum.
How do we draw the line as label police?
We all know seachems prime claims are wrong. Should they be shut down forever?
What made vibrant so bad it had to go, but Prime can stay such that the chemistry forum can prove nine ways it's bunk claims, right on their label btw, but it's not worthy of business elimination
A test requested: someone build us a valonia challenge thread using solely the legal and hobby- accepted algaefix marine (claimed to be the exact same as vibrant)
Take it out to a mere easy ten pages of random submitted jobs, let's see how it fares against what we have on file for valonia and vibrant, you'll be surprised.
The two claimed same products don't work the same in test threads at all. I would have enjoyed watching you guys come together to figure that out, actually helping peoples reefs along the way.
you had a good business as far as outcomes go. I wonder if a seachem takedown is on the radar since their claims for prime are clearly mislabeled per studies in the Chem forum.
How do we draw the line as label police?
We all know seachems prime claims are wrong. Should they be shut down forever?
What made vibrant so bad it had to go, but Prime can stay such that the chemistry forum can prove nine ways it's bunk claims, right on their label btw, but it's not worthy of business elimination
A test requested: someone build us a valonia challenge thread using solely the legal and hobby- accepted algaefix marine (claimed to be the exact same as vibrant)
Take it out to a mere easy ten pages of random submitted jobs, let's see how it fares against what we have on file for valonia and vibrant, you'll be surprised.
The two claimed same products don't work the same in test threads at all. I would have enjoyed watching you guys come together to figure that out, actually helping peoples reefs along the way.
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I expect the dechlorinator claim is safe, lol
I watched vibrant/UWC run his work threads for years, since '18, and if it was killing reefs I'd have pounced quickly
But it wasn't harming reefs, it just had a bad label. I've seen accidental kalk dumps or peroxide mishaps harm home reef tanks, yet those items are very good for reefing. Vibrant simply didn't have a high risk rate. It was low risk, fairly decent reward on Gha tanks, a few dinos tanks, and absolutely the best valonia cure the hobby ever found. I'm not stating this just to be contrary: it's a fair account of searchable use applications.
If someone read the threads, saw the outcomes, and felt vibrant was dangerous to home reefs, show me some of the patterns I missed.
But it wasn't harming reefs, it just had a bad label. I've seen accidental kalk dumps or peroxide mishaps harm home reef tanks, yet those items are very good for reefing. Vibrant simply didn't have a high risk rate. It was low risk, fairly decent reward on Gha tanks, a few dinos tanks, and absolutely the best valonia cure the hobby ever found. I'm not stating this just to be contrary: it's a fair account of searchable use applications.
If someone read the threads, saw the outcomes, and felt vibrant was dangerous to home reefs, show me some of the patterns I missed.
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