Utterly Dejected

[Siberwulf]

I don't even know where to start with this post. I'm kinda just...in a blah part of the tank. I'm not considering getting out of the hobby, but at this point, my tank really isn't bringing me joy.

Here's my current livestock situation:

• 3 PJ Cardinals
• 2 Ocellaris clownfish
• 1 Aiptasia-Eating Filefish
• PIncushion Urchin (PS I like the look of him, but I don't like that he snacks on my coraline left and right.)
• Crabbies and Snails (like 1000 baby ones at night
• I think I have one peppermint shrimp, but the other two or three have disappeared over the past few months
• 4 pads of corals
• 1 birds nest
• A few favia
• A whole lotta Pulsing Xenia

That's the good. Those all seem to be growing really, really, really well

Now the bad and ugly all in one

• Aiptasia is a mess. It's everywhere. From the rock, to the sand, to growing on pumps, in my sump and even on the side of my UV filter
  • I tried a handful of peppermint shrimp. They didn't touch it.
  • I tried nudibranchs. I'm pretty sure the peppermint shrimp at them all within the first day or so. This was my bad.
  • I tried the filefish. No help from him, he really loves pods.
  • I've tried some F-Aiptasia. I cannot keep up with the sheer number of buggers here. It spreads SO fast.
  • There's some within my zoa colonies that I'm super nervous about touching....
• Bubble Algae is a worse mess. It's overwhelming in places where the Aiptasia isn't growing. The sump seems pretty clean from it, but the display tank is bad.
  • I've been adding a few emerald crabs here and there...and they don't care for the stuff
  • Have also tried some manual removal, but this only bought me a little time before it spread back to that spot.
• I'm going on my second bout with cyano, in the same corner of the tank.
  • I nuked it last time with Chemiclean, the pain with the skimmer was...a lot. I had to basically overflow it into a bucket outside the tank, as it just kept spewing on even the driest setting...

A little history on my chemistry.

• I've had problems keeping NO3 off zero. I'd been dosing NeoNitro to help this, but they just kept going away. I think it self corrected a bit when my PO4 got under control and I started to regularly prune my Chaeto. It was..thick.
  • 3.6 -> 4.8 -> 3.9 (Two weeks ago -> last week -> this week)
• PO4 had usually been elevated. Like... 0.4 levels. I finally got some GFO in there and it's come down to a reasonable level
  • 0.10 -> 0.13 -> 0.15 (Two weks ago -> last week -> this week) Might be time to replace the media in there. It took a LOT out.
• Ca, Mg, etc...rarely tested, but I'm working mostly with Zoas and softies, so I don't sweat these too much. I do know that coraline is SUPER fast spreading in here, which makes me feel like these are fine.

The tank is downright ugly right now:




I think I have a couple tough choices to make here...

Option A: Try to treat this as dramatically as possible while leaving everything in place

1. For the BA
   1. Pull my chaeto out of the sump, and junk it.
   2. Dose some AlgaeFix in order to remove all algae (hence the chaeto being removed)
   3. Wait 6 weeks
   4. Re-add some clean chaeto (like from AlgaeBarn)
2. For the aiptasia
   1. Pull any living peppermint shrimp and put in the sump
   2. Invest in some more nudibranchs (will my file fish eat these? I read that they won't...but I have trust issues)
   3. Patiently wait for all of them to
3. For the cyano...
   1. I really don't know. I know I had some out of wack chemistry issues, but now that things have been "settled" for three weeks, I'd expect it to stop spreading (not to recede..but to at least not get worse) but that's not the case.
   2. Since this in only one corner (and in the same corner) could this just be a flow issue? Is a random powerhead pointed at this corner going to help things out?

Option B:

• Pull everything out, leave the rock out in the sun to kill everything on it (including all the lovely pods, brittles, etc.).
• Siphone off all the sand, rinse it, and replace it.
• 100% WC
• Jump start things with some bottle bac and pray for the best? The fish seem hearty so some ammonia may not hurt them too much?
• This is essentially like starting with dry rock and dry sand...right? Maybe a little worse?

 

[sixty_reefer]

I would go with option c.

nitrates:
Use potassium nitrate or calcium nitrate instead of neonitro

aptasia: the idea of removing peppermint shrimp and add berguia is good

copperband and nudibranch are my favourite method on large amounts of Aipatasia

in addition swapping for slow sinking pellets can help reduce the spread.

cyanobacteria:
The replacement from neonitro with calcium nitrate should help and in addition vacuum clean all the sand bed and add a good quality gac.

bubble algae:
In a tank like yours you should be able to add a few emerald crabs to keep it under control.

 

[Mike1970]

how old is this tank? your problems are the same ones that everyone has. hahaha i think if you do a little more research you can beat all those things if you restart the tank what's to say you will not have the same problems again, if it was me I would go after each problem 1 at a time remember patients is key nothing good happens fast (which kinda sucks)

 

[killer2001]

I'd probably go for Option B.

Aiptasia and Pulsing Xenia running rampant in the same system sounds like a bad time.

 

[RichReef]

Deleted. Sorry.

 

[davidcalgary29]

There's always option D:

-Trade in your fish for credit. Treat your aiptasia with all fish out of the tank, and then restock. You'll have a much easier time keeping your nudibranchs alive this way, as matted filefish (and probably every other filefish species) will eat berghia nudibranchs. And nudis really are the way to get rid of aiptasia permanently.

-Trade in your "pincushion" urchin. I'm not sure what you have, but pincushion urchins should certainly not be eating coral. Get a tuxedo urchin instead.

-Dose phyto for the cyano. I had a cyano problem in one tank for a year, and it disappeared with the introduction of phyto and a nice bag of chemipure elite.

-Valonia's not the end of the world. Emerald crabs did nothing for my problem; I switched to vibrant, along with its many, many problems, and it has halved the problem.

 

[Siberwulf]

I would go with option c.

nitrates:
Use potassium nitrate or calcium nitrate instead of neonitro

aptasia: the idea of removing peppermint shrimp and add berguia is good

copperband and nudibranch are my favourite method on large amounts of Aipatasia

in addition swapping for slow sinking pellets can help reduce the spread.

cyanobacteria:
The replacement from neonitro with calcium nitrate should help and in addition vacuum clean all the sand bed and add a good quality gac.

bubble algae:
In a tank like yours you should be able to add a few emerald crabs to keep it under control.

I do have some Potassium Nitrate, but on the upside, haven't had to dose nitrates in a few weeks. That's a step in the right direction, I guess.

I won't lie, I'm terribly gun-shy with a CBB.

I'm not sure what you mean about slow-sinking pellets? You mean as opposed to feeding frozen brine shrimp?

I'm currently just running GFO, so you're saying to add in some GAC to it and run it hybrid?

I've tried with more than a handful of emeralds...and they don't even dent the BA

 

[Siberwulf]

how old is this tank? your problems are the same ones that everyone has. hahaha i think if you do a little more research you can beat all those things if you restart the tank what's to say you will not have the same problems again, if it was me I would go after each problem 1 at a time remember patients is key nothing good happens fast (which kinda sucks)

The tank is about 18 months old now. It's true that I could end up with the same problems as today. I'm trying to make small changes every few weeks, but trying to nip problems when I see them (as opposed to wishing them away, which has gotten me here)

 

[Siberwulf]

There's always option D:

-Trade in your fish for credit. Treat your aiptasia with all fish out of the tank, and then restock. You'll have a much easier time keeping your nudibranchs alive this way, as matted filefish (and probably every other filefish species) will eat berghia nudibranchs. And nudis really are the way to get rid of aiptasia permanently.

-Trade in your "pincushion" urchin. I'm not sure what you have, but pincushion urchins should certainly not be eating coral. Get a tuxedo urchin instead.

-Dose phyto for the cyano. I had a cyano problem in one tank for a year, and it disappeared with the introduction of phyto and a nice bag of chemipure elite.

-Valonia's not the end of the world. Emerald crabs did nothing for my problem; I switched to vibrant, along with its many, many problems, and it has halved the problem.

That's an interesting take. It has been a bugger to get fish in the first place (I buy them pre-QT'd since I don't have a spot for a QT tank) and that takes...well it took me 3 months to get my last order... Maybe if I just keep the PJ Cardinals and Clowns, the Nudis will survive?

The pincushion urchin is eating the coraline algae, not actual coral. It's just leaving some ugly "clean" traces in an otherwise purple landscape.

How much phyto would you dose for a 90g tank? I stopped it a while ago and now only dose Coralmax twice a week

I'm tempted with Vibrant, but if it's really just AlgaeFix, should I go with the honest one, or the dishonest one?

 

[sixty_reefer]

I do have some Potassium Nitrate, but on the upside, haven't had to dose nitrates in a few weeks. That's a step in the right direction, I guess.

Potassium nitrate is high on nitrogen and potassium they will work as fertilisers for the algae

I won't lie, I'm terribly gun-shy with a CBB.

only recommending as they worked for me in the past, there is more options out there

I'm not sure what you mean about slow-sinking pellets? You mean as opposed to feeding frozen brine shrimp?

yes, Aipatasia seems to have problems digesting pellet and if they slow sinking it gives the fish more time to eat them before they hit the rocks and

I'm currently just running GFO, so you're saying to add in some GAC to it and run it hybrid?

Yes gac will aid removing some organic from the water column that may aid the growth of Cyanobacteria

I've tried with more than a handful of emeralds...and they don't even dent the BA

That’s unfortunate they served me well in the past although if they have a good supply of other foods they will prefer them to algae. Maybe feed pellets in small amounts at a time to ensure they don’t reach the bottom of the tank, if they get hungry they will start eating algae.

 

[Siberwulf]

Potassium nitrate is high on nitrogen and potassium they will work as fertilisers for the algae

I totally lied... I have Sodium Nitrate. Is that any better?

As far as removing organic from the column, I have a pretty hefty skimmer in the sump. I figured that would be good...but it seems like I need more?

I think a take-away here is that maybe I should be feeding twice a day, half a cube. And ensure that nothing gets past them. Maybe feed away from the file fish to encourage him to pick at the Aiptasia...

 

[kevgib67]

Berghia nudibranchs will take care of your aptasia, it worked for me. It is my understanding that anything that will eat aptasia will eat nudibranchs. Peppermint shrimp and file fish must go. Years ago a friend and I were dealing with bubble algae. I went the emerald crab direction and he with a saifin tang, both were successful although I never here these days about sailfin tangs being used for bubble algae. I know you said you have used emeralds with no success, not sure what is going on there. Cyano is not permanent and there are many ways of defeating it. Everyone of these things will take time, patience is key in this hobby. Everyone with a saltwater reef tank has sat and looked at their ugly tank but with patience and time came out on the other side. Good luck.

 

[davidcalgary29]

That's an interesting take. It has been a bugger to get fish in the first place (I buy them pre-QT'd since I don't have a spot for a QT tank) and that takes...well it took me 3 months to get my last order... Maybe if I just keep the PJ Cardinals and Clowns, the Nudis will survive?

The pincushion urchin is eating the coraline algae, not actual coral. It's just leaving some ugly "clean" traces in an otherwise purple landscape.

How much phyto would you dose for a 90g tank? I stopped it a while ago and now only dose Coralmax twice a week

I'm tempted with Vibrant, but if it's really just AlgaeFix, should I go with the honest one, or the dishonest one?

It's caveat emptor with Vibrant; I've used the "official" toxin, for what it's worth.

I dose about 10mL a week per 50g, spacing it out over a couple of days.

You never know what's going to develop a taste for inverts, so you're always going to run some risk by leaving fish in a tank with an active berghia population. Your plan should be fine, but I was unable to keep my nudibranchs alive in a 40g cube which had no wrasses or devoted carnivores. I never did find out what was eating them.

 

[All_talk]

I know how you feel, I was in a similar place with my tank at the end of last year, I had all the problems you have plus a wicked infestation of bryopsis. My tank is about 13 years old but the last few years the maintenance has been lacking and the tank was showing it. We are currently doing some home remodeling and a large tank upgrade is in the plan. But I told myself that I needed to get the current tank cleaned up to prove to myself I could be more successful with the bigger tank.

Now eight months later my tank is looking much better, not completely pest free but nearly there. Here is what I have done...

Started testing again (it had been years), and made slow corrections to get parameters back in line. ALK, NO3 and PO4 were all low.

Upped my flow, I had some controllable power heads go bad (urchins like to chew on wires), and was running on backup pumps. Replaced the pumps and added one more along the back of the rock work to kill dead spots.

Upped my feeding and once nutrients came up I added chaeto back to the sump (it had died out years ago). Now I try and balance fuge light cylce and cheato harvesting against feeding to maintain things.

Added a massive clean up crew. I think this was key, it forced a little competition for food and critters like my urchin had to start eating other algae that might not have been their first choice. I think this is what happened to my bryopsis, I saw no sign of it dying but yet its almost gone.

The last of the plagues to conquer is the aiptasia. Berghia are my intended weapon but I did not want to add them until I had the tank parameters inline and stable. I will likely add some soon.

I have also been I bit more consistent with water changes, I try and do 10% weekly but sometimes its every two weeks.

I feel these steps have me near the goal and I am enjoying the hobby a lot more now. I hesitate to post the pictures below but they help tell the story and might give you a reason for hope. The first is from late December last year, the second is about three weeks ago.

Gary

 

[billyocean]

@brandon429

 

[Aspect]

Get another Filefish and some nassarius/turbo snails. Should clear itself up in time. I hate when people tell me this, but it's usually in your best interest: Be patient.

 

[jabberwock]

I feel for you. But to encourage you, it is a complicated hobby, and YOU get to do it!

Whatever you decide, stay positive and diligent. It could be worse. My dog went through another door (the one I just repaired from the last incident) this weekend, and escaped to the garage, and went through the door in the garage to escape a thunderstorm. All of this while my wife, daughter and I were on the other side of town at a Jack Johnson concert. Neighbors called, and Mother in Law had to drive for an hour to pick up the dog at a strangers house.

Do you have a dog? Do you want one?

 

[Tamberav]

Chloroquine would kill the algae and the aiptasia but fish would be fine. Would need to remove all inverts/coral though as it would kill those too. May not be easy to acquire these days tho.

Otherwise, depedning on tank size... trade some fish in for a butterfly and foxface.

There are generally always up and downs with tanks. I swear I get a seasonal cyano bloom (maybe from increased CO2 and temps? idk!).

 

[fish farmer]

I know how you feel, I was in a similar place with my tank at the end of last year, I had all the problems you have plus a wicked infestation of bryopsis. My tank is about 13 years old but the last few years the maintenance has been lacking and the tank was showing it. We are currently doing some home remodeling and a large tank upgrade is in the plan. But I told myself that I needed to get the current tank cleaned up to prove to myself I could be more successful with the bigger tank.

Now eight months later my tank is looking much better, not completely pest free but nearly there. Here is what I have done...

Started testing again (it had been years), and made slow corrections to get parameters back in line. ALK, NO3 and PO4 were all low.

Upped my flow, I had some controllable power heads go bad (urchins like to chew on wires), and was running on backup pumps. Replaced the pumps and added one more along the back of the rock work to kill dead spots.

Upped my feeding and once nutrients came up I added chaeto back to the sump (it had died out years ago). Now I try and balance fuge light cylce and cheato harvesting against feeding to maintain things.

Added a massive clean up crew. I think this was key, it forced a little competition for food and critters like my urchin had to start eating other algae that might not have been their first choice. I think this is what happened to my bryopsis, I saw no sign of it dying but yet its almost gone.

The last of the plagues to conquer is the aiptasia. Berghia are my intended weapon but I did not want to add them until I had the tank parameters inline and stable. I will likely add some soon.

I have also been I bit more consistent with water changes, I try and do 10% weekly but sometimes its every two weeks.

I feel these steps have me near the goal and I am enjoying the hobby a lot more now. I hesitate to post the pictures below but they help tell the story and might give you a reason for hope. The first is from late December last year, the second is about three weeks ago.

Gary

View attachment 2797761 View attachment 2797763

Nice turn around.