Using muriatic acid to combat rising alk

OP
OP
Gribbles

Gribbles

Active Member
View Badges
Joined
Mar 10, 2022
Messages
481
Reaction score
387
Location
Cypress
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Declining nitrate is the only one of those which adds alk, but the others do suggest low alk consumption.

Is the rock artificial or natural?
It's all marco rock

Declining nitrate, yes. I don't know the rate at which the BactoBalance can consume nitrates, but .2dkh is roughly 5 nitrates consumed per day give or take?
 

Randy Holmes-Farley

Reef Chemist
View Badges
Joined
Sep 5, 2014
Messages
72,100
Reaction score
69,741
Location
Massachusetts, United States
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
It's all marco rock

Declining nitrate, yes. I don't know the rate at which the BactoBalance can consume nitrates, but .2dkh is roughly 5 nitrates consumed per day give or take?

Yes
 

GARRIGA

2500 Club Member
View Badges
Joined
Oct 12, 2021
Messages
3,692
Reaction score
2,952
Location
South Florida
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Declining nitrate is the only one of those which adds alk, but the others do suggest low alk consumption.

Is the rock artificial or natural?
Wouldn't the added alkalinity from nitrate reduction be replacing the alkalinity loss from nitrification therefore his alkalinity rise due to some other factor?
 
OP
OP
Gribbles

Gribbles

Active Member
View Badges
Joined
Mar 10, 2022
Messages
481
Reaction score
387
Location
Cypress
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Just when I think I'm getting it all figured out, my mind goes in a circle again :grinning-face-with-smiling-eyes: One of these days I'll get it

The food and bioload should be a net neutral process in the end. So where else would.... It has to be from the BactoBalance dosing
 
Last edited:

Randy Holmes-Farley

Reef Chemist
View Badges
Joined
Sep 5, 2014
Messages
72,100
Reaction score
69,741
Location
Massachusetts, United States
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Wouldn't the added alkalinity from nitrate reduction be replacing the alkalinity loss from nitrification therefore his alkalinity rise due to some other factor?

If nitrate is falling, there’s a net increase in alk.

If nitrate is steady at any level, then the production and consumption of nitrate offset one another and there is no net alk change.
 

GARRIGA

2500 Club Member
View Badges
Joined
Oct 12, 2021
Messages
3,692
Reaction score
2,952
Location
South Florida
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
If nitrate is falling, there’s a net increase in alk.

If nitrate is steady at any level, then the production and consumption of nitrate offset one another and there is no net alk change.
Isn’t that increase in alkalinity due to nitrate dropping just the alkalinity originally lost to nitrification. We’ve had this discussion before and that’s what I understood when asking about adding ammonium to increase nitrates which ultimately wouldn’t work since nitrification of that ammonium would lose base due to acidification. Now I’m getting confused.
 
OP
OP
Gribbles

Gribbles

Active Member
View Badges
Joined
Mar 10, 2022
Messages
481
Reaction score
387
Location
Cypress
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Isn’t that increase in alkalinity due to nitrate dropping just the alkalinity originally lost to nitrification. We’ve had this discussion before and that’s what I understood when asking about adding ammonium to increase nitrates which ultimately wouldn’t work since nitrification of that ammonium would lose base due to acidification. Now I’m getting confused.
Hey let's form a club! We can get jackets!
 

Miami Reef

10K Club Member
View Badges
Joined
Sep 8, 2017
Messages
12,222
Reaction score
23,039
Location
Miami Beach
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Isn’t that increase in alkalinity due to nitrate dropping just the alkalinity originally lost to nitrification. We’ve had this discussion before and that’s what I understood when asking about adding ammonium to increase nitrates which ultimately wouldn’t work since nitrification of that ammonium would lose base due to acidification. Now I’m getting confused.
You are correct.

The alk is initially lost from dosing ammonium or feeding. The same alk will be brought back from the nitrate getting consumed.

However, if your tank is dropping nitrates quickly, it will seem like the alk is rising because most people will maintain a certain alk level through dosing or water changes.

It will seem like a net increase. Kind of like investing $200 a month ago and then getting the $200 back suddenly when you weren’t expecting it. It’s technically a net 0, but it will still feel like a sudden gain because there has been other incomes and losses throughout that time.
 

GARRIGA

2500 Club Member
View Badges
Joined
Oct 12, 2021
Messages
3,692
Reaction score
2,952
Location
South Florida
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
You are correct.

The alk is initially lost from dosing ammonium or feeding. The same alk will be brought back from the nitrate getting consumed.

However, if your tank is dropping nitrates quickly, it will seem like the alk is rising because most people will maintain a certain alk level through dosing or water changes.

It will seem like a net increase. Kind of like investing $200 a month ago and then getting the $200 back suddenly when you weren’t expecting it. It’s technically a net 0, but it will still feel like a sudden gain because there has been other incomes and losses throughout that time.
Then I'm not confused. Guessing the product used some form of carbon dosing and didn't grasp that not being familiar with Bacto Balance.
 

Randy Holmes-Farley

Reef Chemist
View Badges
Joined
Sep 5, 2014
Messages
72,100
Reaction score
69,741
Location
Massachusetts, United States
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Isn’t that increase in alkalinity due to nitrate dropping just the alkalinity originally lost to nitrification. We’ve had this discussion before and that’s what I understood when asking about adding ammonium to increase nitrates which ultimately wouldn’t work since nitrification of that ammonium would lose base due to acidification. Now I’m getting confused.

Yes, but in a tank at, say, 50 ppm nitrate and alk of 8 dKH, however it got there, if you consume that 50 ppm of nitrate and drive it to zero, alk will be above 10 dKH.
 
Last edited:

Miami Reef

10K Club Member
View Badges
Joined
Sep 8, 2017
Messages
12,222
Reaction score
23,039
Location
Miami Beach
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Yes, but in a tank at, say, 50 ppm nitrate and alk of 8 dKH, however it got there, if you consume that 50 ppm of nitrate and drive it to zero, alk will be below 6 dKH.
Actually, the opposite is true. Alk rises when nitrate is consumed.
 

GARRIGA

2500 Club Member
View Badges
Joined
Oct 12, 2021
Messages
3,692
Reaction score
2,952
Location
South Florida
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Dr. Randy, we're (Garriga and I) forming a club and I'd like to formally invite you! We're gonna get jackets!! :grinning-face-with-smiling-eyes:
He likely already has a white lab coat. We can start with that :rolling-on-the-floor-laughing:
 

HAVE YOU EVER KEPT A RARE/UNCOMMON FISH, CORAL, OR INVERT? SHOW IT OFF IN THE THREAD!

  • Yes!

    Votes: 32 45.7%
  • Not yet, but I have one that I want to buy in mind!

    Votes: 9 12.9%
  • No.

    Votes: 26 37.1%
  • Other (please explain).

    Votes: 3 4.3%
Back
Top