Using chloroquine phosphate to treat new fish

[Shooter6]

Reading the directions, it seems like every step of the process says,"if the fish seems to be stressed, move onto the next step".

Yes you have to monitor them. Pretty simple though.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Seems aggressive...

It is - years ago, I had developed a "triage" process for new fish that was essentially the same as this. I added it to my protocol, but then found my mortality rate jumped dramatically. I now no longer dip fish within 72 hours of them being shipped. You could more safely use safety stop at the END of a protocol, when the fish are more stable. However, the fact remains that any dip that isn't fatal to the fish is also not going to be fatal to 100% of the external parasites. So - don't rely on this products to % of the parasites, but just to lower their overall numbers.

Jay

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Can you please describe how hypo QT is done exactly? Thanks.

Here is my take on running hypo:

Hyposalinity

Hyposalinity Jay Hemdal 2021 This term refers to a long-term bath treatment for marine fishes in which the salt content of the water is lowered and held below the point that certain parasites can survive. The salt level reached, and the time of the treatment are the two variables...

www.reef2reef.com

Jay

 

[Shooter6]

It is - years ago, I had developed a "triage" process for new fish that was essentially the same as this. I added it to my protocol, but then found my mortality rate jumped dramatically. I now no longer dip fish within 72 hours of them being shipped. You could more safely use safety stop at the END of a protocol, when the fish are more stable. However, the fact remains that any dip that isn't fatal to the fish is also not going to be fatal to 100% of the external parasites. So - don't rely on this products to % of the parasites, but just to lower their overall numbers.

Jay

I also don't put 100% into it, and instead use it as part of the treatment protocol. Hyposalinity is my primary method, equally used is chloroquine phosphate. I've really not had any issues with the dip then into hypo. The combo seems to really help remove everything from ich to flukes in a simple treatment. Same goes for chloroquine phosphate. I've even done Hyposalinity and chloroquine when velvet was suspected, and had no issues.

 

[Salty87]

I'm on week three of chloroquine phosphate qt as we speak. As far as I ve observed it has its pros and cons. It is easy to dose and has a wide therapeutic range so overdosing won't be an issue like in copper. But at the same time there is no assurance as to how much of the drug is actually active after biodegradation from bacteria and light. No way to test it. Which is why I'm not stopping after two weeks but doing the full month in it.

As for the toxicity issue, I can vouch for the fact that I ve personally lost a regal blue tang to it while a yellow pulled through.

One recent observation is, that chloroquine itself will make your water cloudy to an extent, don't know if it is a bacterial bloom. And do not add general cure while the chloroquine is running. Best not to mix both as the prazi in general cure will also cloud up the water.
The chloroquine phosphate adds so much phosphate to the water Im thinking of 100% water change after treatment and running a phosphate remover resin as well afterwards.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

I'm on week three of chloroquine phosphate qt as we speak. As far as I ve observed it has its pros and cons. It is easy to dose and has a wide therapeutic range so overdosing won't be an issue like in copper. But at the same time there is no assurance as to how much of the drug is actually active after biodegradation from bacteria and light. No way to test it. Which is why I'm not stopping after two weeks but doing the full month in it.

As for the toxicity issue, I can vouch for the fact that I ve personally lost a regal blue tang to it while a yellow pulled through.

One recent observation is, that chloroquine itself will make your water cloudy to an extent, don't know if it is a bacterial bloom. And do not add general cure while the chloroquine is running. Best not to mix both as the prazi in general cure will also cloud up the water.
The chloroquine phosphate adds so much phosphate to the water Im thinking of 100% water change after treatment and running a phosphate remover resin as well afterwards.

Chloroquine will kill off much of the microfauna in an aquarium (algae, bacteria, pods, etc.) that will in turn cause cloudy water/ammonia issues if used in an established tank. This is less of an issue in a QT that doesn't have a robust population of those critters.

Jay

 

[Salty87]

Chloroquine will kill off much of the microfauna in an aquarium (algae, bacteria, pods, etc.) that will in turn cause cloudy water/ammonia issues if used in an established tank. This is less of an issue in a QT that doesn't have a robust population of those critters.

Jay

Jay... This is in a sterile QT... The water has been cloudy from day 1 of dosing chloroquine. Maybe the tablet form I use is to blame?

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Jay... This is in a sterile QT... The water has been cloudy from day 1 of dosing chloroquine. Maybe the tablet form I use is to blame?

Could be! Many drugs in pill form have binders/excipients that can cause issues when used in aquariums. I've always used powdered, 100% Chloroquine, so if your pills have other ingredients, that could be an issue.

Jay

 

[mehaffydr]

Can you please describe how hypo QT is done exactly? Thanks.

Please read this article by Jay, You can't just acclimate to 1.009. This should be done over at least 24-48 hours. What really important is maintaining accurate salinity and you must be slow about raising the salinity at the end. Fish tolerate dropping better than raising.

Hyposalinity

Hyposalinity Jay Hemdal 2021 This term refers to a long-term bath treatment for marine fishes in which the salt content of the water is lowered and held below the point that certain parasites can survive. The salt level reached, and the time of the treatment are the two variables...

www.reef2reef.com

I followed this exactly and I have not had any issues since.
With any QT procedure diligence is key going in haphazard is just asking for problems or you will be one of the people who say I did QT and my fish still got ich. Or you will say copper killed my fish. It most like;y wasn't the copper it was the procedure and lack of precision.

 

[Sean W.]

Could be! Many drugs in pill form have binders/excipients that can cause issues when used in aquariums. I've always used powdered, 100% Chloroquine, so if your pills have other ingredients, that could be an issue.

Jay

Aside from potential cloudy water issues, would it be safe to treat general cure and CP at the same time?

 

[Shooter6]

Jay... This is in a sterile QT... The water has been cloudy from day 1 of dosing chloroquine. Maybe the tablet form I use is to blame?

Maybe. I use the pharmaceutical powder, and there's no cloudy water unless it's from ammonia.

I recommend you do 50% water change and a half dose to verify the cp is still at a decent level.

I ran all my cp treatments to 30days then an additional 30 without meds for verification.

I dosed above the recommendation as well though. Didn't use any aquarium light on the qt either. Bacteria will consume cp over time.
Most of the fish in my previous display were purchased with visible ich or velvet spots. After the first 24hrs in cp the dots would always disappear and not return.

 

[Sean W.]

Maybe. I use the pharmaceutical powder, and there's no cloudy water unless it's from ammonia.

I recommend you do 50% water change and a half dose to verify the cp is still at a decent level.

I ran all my cp treatments to 30days then an additional 30 without meds for verification.

I dosed above the recommendation as well though. Didn't use any aquarium light on the qt either. Bacteria will consume cp over time.
Most of the fish in my previous display were purchased with visible ich or velvet spots. After the first 24hrs in cp the dots would always disappear and not return.

That's encouraging. Thank you! I think I'm going to pull the trigger on CP!

 

[Shooter6]

That's encouraging. Thank you! I think I'm going to pull the trigger on CP!

No problem. I used to have a video of a powder brown tang, that showed it the day I bought it, covered in ich. Day 2 in cp then follow up to day 30. Beautiful fish once treated. When I bought it it was having very labored breathing and looked like it wasn't going to see the next day.

 

[Salty87]

Maybe. I use the pharmaceutical powder, and there's no cloudy water unless it's from ammonia.

I recommend you do 50% water change and a half dose to verify the cp is still at a decent level.

I ran all my cp treatments to 30days then an additional 30 without meds for verification.

I dosed above the recommendation as well though. Didn't use any aquarium light on the qt either. Bacteria will consume cp over time.
Most of the fish in my previous display were purchased with visible ich or velvet spots. After the first 24hrs in cp the dots would always disappear and not return.

I do 50% water changes every week and dose full strength CP for the replacement water quantity. Meaning 15mg/l for the replacement water as well. Its week 3 so I have already re dosed a couple times other than the starting dose. And nope,i don't run lights either. Just the rooms ambient lighting.
And yes the plan is to run the meds for the full 30 days as well.

 

[Salty87]

That's encouraging. Thank you! I think I'm going to pull the trigger on CP!

What I would suggest is to to run cp alone for the 30days and start general cure after the cp so that the meds don't mix. That way you are not over whelming the fish with meds. Or if you absolutely want to mix the meds do the general cure towards the tail end of CP duration. Maybe the last week. The cloudiness in the water in my case was initially from mixing both general cure and cp. And later probably the binders in the the tablet form. The cloudiness is not too bad though. Just makes the water a bit hazy. You should be good with the pure chloroquine.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Aside from potential cloudy water issues, would it be safe to treat general cure and CP at the same time?

Sorry, I've never mixed those two drugs, so I can't say with certainty. The metronidazole in the GC overlaps in activity with the CP, so that is redundant. CP is a better choice. Personally, unless there was a serious fluke issue on the fish, I would dose with CP, then after that, dose with Prazipro or pure Praziquantel.

Jay

 

[TastesLikeChicken]

Sorry, I've never mixed those two drugs, so I can't say with certainty. The metronidazole in the GC overlaps in activity with the CP, so that is redundant. CP is a better choice. Personally, unless there was a serious fluke issue on the fish, I would dose with CP, then after that, dose with Prazipro or pure Praziquantel.

Jay

If you were treating for flukes prophylactically, do you think one 7 day round would be enough or would you do all three rounds as written in your quarantine guidelines? This is with respect to Prazi.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

If you were treating for flukes prophylactically, do you think one 7 day round would be enough or would you do all three rounds as written in your quarantine guidelines? This is with respect to Prazi.

A single dose rarely works, and never works for egglaying species. It will buy some time though. Some people are finding that it takes 5 doses to get rid of Neobenedenia (yikes!)

Jay

 

[Shooter6]

I do 50% water changes every week and dose full strength CP for the replacement water quantity. Meaning 15mg/l for the replacement water as well. Its week 3 so I have already re dosed a couple times other than the starting dose. And nope,i don't run lights either. Just the rooms ambient lighting.
And yes the plan is to run the meds for the full 30 days as well.

I'd say you are on the optimum plan for cp treatment.

 

[TastesLikeChicken]

A single dose rarely works, and never works for egglaying species. It will buy some time though. Some people are finding that it takes 5 doses to get rid of Neobenedenia (yikes!)

Jay

So after 7 days of Prazi, do I need to change the aquarium water or can I add the second dose of Prazi to the same water? Thank you.