Upgrading Tanks-Do I have to recycle the new tank with same filtration?

[SeaHorseQueen]

I'm considering upgrading my 20g H to at least a 75g and was wondering if I transferred my filter, sand, and rock will I have to recycle all over again or will it do a mini-cycle in half the time? Can I mix the new sand together in a bucket or should I layer the old sand above the new sand and just let it breed the bacteria? Upgrading freshwater is easy but I don't want to mess up what I've worked so hard on for almost 9 months with this tank. Can I avoid starting a new cycle with moving all of this over to the new tank? The new tank will still be a FOWLR so no corals yet. I was looking at potentially adding easy plants in there but that's for another day. I'm looking at upgrading my pod culture tank into the 20 gallon for more room.

 

[EeyoreIsMySpiritAnimal]

There are quite a few "tank transfer" threads that might give you some insight. Here's one... Thread 'Tank transfer logistics' https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/tank-transfer-logistics.946300/

 

[Tired]

If you transfer all the rock from your old tank, that'll move your biofilter over, and you're good. Absolutely no cycle, all the livestock can be transferred just fine. Rinsed old filter media is unnecessary (as the biofilter in reefs lives mainly in the rock) but harmless, un-rinsed old sand can crash the tank.

 

[SeaHorseQueen]

There are quite a few "tank transfer" threads that might give you some insight. Here's one... Thread 'Tank transfer logistics' https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/tank-transfer-logistics.946300/

I was reading some of those. But the jump in tank sizes are pretty big and I plan to add more rock and sand so I didn’t know exactly what course of action that could put me in. Most were talking about cycling the new tank with adding the old stuff too for a short cycle. If I can avoid re-cycling then that would be fantastic.

 

[SeaHorseQueen]

If you transfer all the rock from your old tank, that'll move your biofilter over, and you're good. Absolutely no cycle, all the livestock can be transferred just fine. Rinsed old filter media is unnecessary (as the biofilter in reefs lives mainly in the rock) but harmless, un-rinsed old sand can crash the tank.

Should to transfer most of the water in that tank too or will that matter too much?

 

[EeyoreIsMySpiritAnimal]

Should to transfer most of the water in that tank too or will that matter too much?

Water won't matter as it does not contain a significant amount of nitrifying bacteria. Using it is fine, but won't help cycle the tank.

Using your old rock is what will prevent a new cycle. But don't use your old sand - go ahead and buy new and avoid the possibility of having all the gunk trapped in your current sandbed cause problems.

New sand plus old rock in a larger tank essentially equals a 100% water change on your old tank (or 300+% since you're upgrading from 20g to 75g). If your bioload doesn't change (i.e. if you're not adding more fish immediately), then your biological filter in the 75 will be able to handle the same bioload as it did in your 20 gallon.

Does that make sense?

 

[SeaHorseQueen]

Water won't matter as it does not contain a significant amount of nitrifying bacteria. Using it is fine, but won't help cycle the tank.

Using your old rock is what will prevent a new cycle. But don't use your old sand - go ahead and buy new and avoid the possibility of having all the gunk trapped in your current sandbed cause problems.

New sand plus old rock in a larger tank essentially equals a 100% water change on your old tank (or 300+% since you're upgrading from 20g to 75g). If your bioload doesn't change (i.e. if you're not adding more fish immediately), then your biological filter in the 75 will be able to handle the same bioload as it did in your 20 gallon.

Does that make sense?

Yes, it does. Right now, I don’t have an interest in adding more fish just yet. The tank will basically take one entire paycheck for me if I can’t find it used when I’m ready already. Not counting the sand, skimmer, wave makers, or the additional rocks I’ll have to get.

 

[Heabel7]

You will go through a cycle. It may be reduced but don’t be fooled. Recently, on live streams Jason fox, Abe from coral euphoria, tidal gardens, and reefbum all indicated that new tanks set up with old live rock and those tanks set up new on the same system have cycles and different biodiversity. I also experienced the same as them. When I upgraded from a 55 to a 90 and when I added a 40breeder into my system. My 90 and 40 have different algae’s, pod diversity, and coral behavior. Both are plumbed together and the rock in the 40 came directly from the 90. The 40 went through a full cycle and grew crazy amounts of algae. I didn’t see it coming but felt better hearing it from established reefers that it is normal.

 

[Tired]

There's no reason that, specifically, the nitrifying bacteria on live rock would die off during a quick tank transfer. Algae surges happening due to a change in the system is one thing, but the biofilter shouldn't just be vanishing. If it does, something is wrong.

 

[brandon429]

Here is fifty pages of tank transfers with no recycles. No mini cycles...

Official Sand Rinse and Tank Transfer thread

If you are reading this thread to cure a tank invasion from a link I sent you, we do not need to identify your type of invasion here we do not need you to test anything at anytime regarding nitrate, phosphate etc Above all, we do not need to see a microscope slide picture of your invasion at...

www.reef2reef.com

 

[brandon429]

Page one is me warning with examples not to customize the method or doom results lol

Skip that, pick somewhere in the middle and start reading jobs

You are allowed to add new dry rock in addition to you moving over your current live rock and it will not recycle

We didn't use bottle bac there, because we control the cycling by the way surfaces are cleaned before they're installed in the new tank.

It didn't matter if you use all new water or not, 98% of that thread is all new water in the receiving tank

Don't let its mix of presentations confuse you: rip cleaning a tank that is staying in place, to free it of cyanobacteria, is the same thing as your upcoming transfer... the rinsed surfaces simply land inside new glass in your case

The jobs where we're skip cycling an entire reef to a new city: still all the same exact steps, just with a transport factor added in. Not any job changes in its fundamental rinse mode... tap water for sand, saltwater for rocks, move only cloudless rocks and sand to the new tank and you'll get zero cycle, simple as that

 

[EeyoreIsMySpiritAnimal]

Yes, it does. Right now, I don’t have an interest in adding more fish just yet. The tank will basically take one entire paycheck for me if I can’t find it used when I’m ready already. Not counting the sand, skimmer, wave makers, or the additional rocks I’ll have to get.

If you have the time and inclination, and if $ is an issue, you CAN reuse your sand, but I would recommend rinsing it EXTENSIVELY before putting it in the new tank. For me, it just makes sense to buy an extra bag to replace what's in your current tank.

 

[Garf]

You will go through a cycle. It may be reduced but don’t be fooled. Recently, on live streams Jason fox, Abe from coral euphoria, tidal gardens, and reefbum all indicated that new tanks set up with old live rock and those tanks set up new on the same system have cycles and different biodiversity. I also experienced the same as them. When I upgraded from a 55 to a 90 and when I added a 40breeder into my system. My 90 and 40 have different algae’s, pod diversity, and coral behavior. Both are plumbed together and the rock in the 40 came directly from the 90. The 40 went through a full cycle and grew crazy amounts of algae. I didn’t see it coming but felt better hearing it from established reefers that it is normal.

That’s correct. Any changes in flow, light, water parameters, nutrients availability etc can create a mini cycle. The good news is that they are never (in my experience) enough to induce harmful conditions. I’ve experienced this first hand. Let’s see what the “umps” say. Adding a little of old sand has never caused death of a tank. In fact, we used to get crap from the LFS live rock bins to seed the tanks.

 

[brandon429]

I think the crew must be referring to benthic succession/ changes in microscopic communities during tank moves, it's not ammonia control that waivers/ that stays solid. We have about ten or so seneye- tracked tank transfers to study from, more are coming soon.

If we study threads where people add liquid ammonia into running reefs, a true test compared to simply moving wet rocks among tanks, we see on seneye a ten minute resolution time even for rather large test runs. Relocating reef tanks doesn't result in ammonia control gaps, when rinse steps are skipped and clouding results in fish loss threads its not ammonia causing that loss, it's compounds yet to be identified. Randy's article also doesn't mention anything about ammonia being stored in sandbeds that I recall.

 

[Tired]

In fact, we used to get crap from the LFS live rock bins to seed the tanks.

The rubble stuff in the bottom of a live rock bin isn't the same as a sandbed that's been sitting for awhile, though.

 

[Garf]

The rubble stuff in the bottom of a live rock bin isn't the same as a sandbed that's been sitting for awhile, though.

Maybe, maybe not, lol

 

[SeaHorseQueen]

So no matter what, transferring the live rock will result in basically immediately dying off of bacteria?

 

[brandon429]

What does our thread show? It matters. That's eight years of work, and the only thread we will see on the matter.

It shows the opposite: no bacteria we can measure are harmed.

Your risk is solely in the sand transfer portion.

I find it amazing there isn't 2, or 3 tank transfer threads we can read about that use other people's reefs

 

[Tired]

No, the opposite. Transferring the live rock will result in a 100% cycled tank. You may see an algae bloom or other ecosystem-related instability, but the new tank will be able to support as many fish and corals as were in the old tank.

 

[Arthacker87]

I'd say, try it depending on the fish it shouldn't really hurt them, and if ya mini cycle you'll be fine it's not a bad thing. It's manageable. Also if you lived closer I'd hook ya up w whatever equipment I had left from my old tanks