brandon429
why did you put a reef in that
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This thread is intended to discuss current trends in reef tank cycling and to predict + track changes in reef tank cycling science compared to prior years of observation
*Post any cycle challenge from any reef board on the internet for a quick alignment. cycles do not stall, starve or take 3 weeks to complete nowadays anymore than songs you download require 45 minutes per track like they used to. Cycling has sped up exactly like internet speeds have increased.
****NON DIGITAL test kits you use in cycling are misleading you bigtime, that's the heart of this thread***
Here is the predecessor
we applied those rules from 2020 to run other people's reef tanks we can look back on today.
The trend since well before 2020 is that nobody has been failing their reef tank cycle, none are stuck or stalled, the animals were alive the day they posted in cycle cases where animals were present, such as fish added during the cycle with bottle bacteria.
we are saving discussion about non digital test kits for later, at the beginning here we want to simply look at groups of people who posted cycling tanks and observe the outcome: could the tanks carry fish that acted normally, swam normally, fed normally?
What we want to reflect on in pattern here is the fact uncycled tanks can't carry bioload and daily feed and handle animal waste, while cycled tanks can.
We think that fish are sensitive enough to display when they're ammonia burned, the disease forum diagnoses it off opercular rates and flashing behavior, aerotaxis, and we know in updated cycling science those same diagnostic tools apply to reef tank troubleshoots
we can no longer claim fish in cycles are burning fish until we see posts of those fish exhibiting burn symptoms, that's the trend I'm observing today.
I think readers are going to find a lot of arguments in cycling posts about what a non digital test kit says, this is why we haven't been using the kits in our work threads these last several years.
Testless reef tank cycling is fully developed now, and running, it's not experimental. Any one of several active threads will process a reef tank to-be-built and state the date the system can carry fish, before it's cycled, without using test kits. 2023 is evolution in reef tank cycling, it's not about stammering around with non digital kits any longer
it's not about an arbitrary open-ended wait for ammonia control to establish, the ways we copy one another lend ammonia control usually the same day the reef tank is built. it's how reef tank conventions handle all those costly displays with fifty grand or more in animals. full reefs, on the showfloor, without waiting 30 days for the ramp up.
consider this chemistry forum post below, how many confounds to you see that affect nondigital ammonia test kits? what has this done to cycling, before 2020? why didn't cycle umpires who worked cycle troubleshoots in 2015 tell us these factors?
Reef tank cycling, purchase expenditures all paid a price literally and for a long time when cycling was solely factored off what a non digital test kit says.
what has been the impact to bottle bac sales by millions of people believing their cycle was stuck>?
Seneye and digital nh3/nh4 ammonia test kits are shaping the view on cycling science and evolving it. any reef cycle umpire on boards must be able to reference digital studies of ammonia control or provide their own findings as they troubleshoots a tank's readiness to carry bioload, the old ways of solely using a non digital kit are dialup internet in a world of fiber
it should be noted that reef tank cycling is a niche subset of our hobby not allowed to evolve, we're still told by peers to expect 2-4 weeks for ammonia control
the truth is, that's not true, and to rush disease preps is the true crime. The fish disease forum here shows the real concern in reef tank cycling, it's not ammonia or nitrite issues:
Disease preps for soon to be stocked fish are the real focus in cycling for 2023 and beyond.
-Try and find any study ever made showing a reef tank, stacked in rocks, failing to cycle on a calibrated digital ammonia kit by day ten and post that link. (calibrated means it reads within spec on a running reef tank, before it's used to make inferences about cycling)
use google scholar if needed, search, try and find examples of a reef aquarium display that isn't able to carry fish on day ten, let's see if they're using one of the main methods. *please don't grab a study from scholar that is not specifically a reef tank display failing to cycle and try and link the two. I'm using actual reef tanks to hone the science, I expect for counter proofs to use actual reef tanks just the same, plus digital calibrated ammonia testers like Hanna or Seneye.
-Any of Dr. Reef's bottle bac study threads using seneye cover fish in cycling, using updated measures, there isn't a burn in effect for fish noted.
-any seneye owner who calibrated their device and put it in a reef tank, during any phase, can state how fast ammonia control happens and whether it wanes during running of the tank
-the fact all the fish are alive when posting cycles-to-come, or present cycles. there aren't any tanks failing to carry bioload means something in 2023 and beyond
*Post any cycle challenge from any reef board on the internet for a quick alignment. cycles do not stall, starve or take 3 weeks to complete nowadays anymore than songs you download require 45 minutes per track like they used to. Cycling has sped up exactly like internet speeds have increased.
****NON DIGITAL test kits you use in cycling are misleading you bigtime, that's the heart of this thread***
Here is the predecessor
Updated Cycling Science thread 2020
Thank you for posting! That's one reason brs offers the four month cycle buildup, agreed that curing out during coral loading is mass headache
www.reef2reef.com
The trend since well before 2020 is that nobody has been failing their reef tank cycle, none are stuck or stalled, the animals were alive the day they posted in cycle cases where animals were present, such as fish added during the cycle with bottle bacteria.
we are saving discussion about non digital test kits for later, at the beginning here we want to simply look at groups of people who posted cycling tanks and observe the outcome: could the tanks carry fish that acted normally, swam normally, fed normally?
What we want to reflect on in pattern here is the fact uncycled tanks can't carry bioload and daily feed and handle animal waste, while cycled tanks can.
We think that fish are sensitive enough to display when they're ammonia burned, the disease forum diagnoses it off opercular rates and flashing behavior, aerotaxis, and we know in updated cycling science those same diagnostic tools apply to reef tank troubleshoots
we can no longer claim fish in cycles are burning fish until we see posts of those fish exhibiting burn symptoms, that's the trend I'm observing today.
I think readers are going to find a lot of arguments in cycling posts about what a non digital test kit says, this is why we haven't been using the kits in our work threads these last several years.
Testless reef tank cycling is fully developed now, and running, it's not experimental. Any one of several active threads will process a reef tank to-be-built and state the date the system can carry fish, before it's cycled, without using test kits. 2023 is evolution in reef tank cycling, it's not about stammering around with non digital kits any longer
it's not about an arbitrary open-ended wait for ammonia control to establish, the ways we copy one another lend ammonia control usually the same day the reef tank is built. it's how reef tank conventions handle all those costly displays with fifty grand or more in animals. full reefs, on the showfloor, without waiting 30 days for the ramp up.
consider this chemistry forum post below, how many confounds to you see that affect nondigital ammonia test kits? what has this done to cycling, before 2020? why didn't cycle umpires who worked cycle troubleshoots in 2015 tell us these factors?
Reef tank cycling, purchase expenditures all paid a price literally and for a long time when cycling was solely factored off what a non digital test kit says.
what has been the impact to bottle bac sales by millions of people believing their cycle was stuck>?
Can this bacterial phenomenon be explained?
As part of a experiment on the effects of decomposition of organics I’ve added a defrost shrimp (5g) to a vessel with 100ml of tank water containing a very small amount of carbohydrates. The goal of the experiment was to analyse the ammonia rise from the shrimp and the slow decomposition...
www.reef2reef.com
Seneye and digital nh3/nh4 ammonia test kits are shaping the view on cycling science and evolving it. any reef cycle umpire on boards must be able to reference digital studies of ammonia control or provide their own findings as they troubleshoots a tank's readiness to carry bioload, the old ways of solely using a non digital kit are dialup internet in a world of fiber
it should be noted that reef tank cycling is a niche subset of our hobby not allowed to evolve, we're still told by peers to expect 2-4 weeks for ammonia control
the truth is, that's not true, and to rush disease preps is the true crime. The fish disease forum here shows the real concern in reef tank cycling, it's not ammonia or nitrite issues:
Fish Disease Treatment and Diagnosis
A forum for discussing treatment and diagnosing saltwater reef fish.
www.reef2reef.com
Disease preps for soon to be stocked fish are the real focus in cycling for 2023 and beyond.
-Try and find any study ever made showing a reef tank, stacked in rocks, failing to cycle on a calibrated digital ammonia kit by day ten and post that link. (calibrated means it reads within spec on a running reef tank, before it's used to make inferences about cycling)
use google scholar if needed, search, try and find examples of a reef aquarium display that isn't able to carry fish on day ten, let's see if they're using one of the main methods. *please don't grab a study from scholar that is not specifically a reef tank display failing to cycle and try and link the two. I'm using actual reef tanks to hone the science, I expect for counter proofs to use actual reef tanks just the same, plus digital calibrated ammonia testers like Hanna or Seneye.
-Any of Dr. Reef's bottle bac study threads using seneye cover fish in cycling, using updated measures, there isn't a burn in effect for fish noted.
-any seneye owner who calibrated their device and put it in a reef tank, during any phase, can state how fast ammonia control happens and whether it wanes during running of the tank
-the fact all the fish are alive when posting cycles-to-come, or present cycles. there aren't any tanks failing to carry bioload means something in 2023 and beyond
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