Tropic Marin Actif

[Fisherman Joe]

Hi all.

Came across this product last week and used it for the first time yesterday.

I saw a 0.5ppm reduction in PO4 overnight and a 10ppm reduction in nitrate.

It says it contains naturally derived biopolymers from plants and algae, anyone know how it will work?

Any things to watch for when using it?

 

[Dan_P]

Hi all.

Came across this product last week and used it for the first time yesterday.

I saw a 0.5ppm reduction in PO4 overnight and a 10ppm reduction in nitrate.

It says it contains naturally derived biopolymers from plants and algae, anyone know how it will work?

Any things to watch for when using it?

I suspect it is an expensive version of starch for carbon dosing. It might even be starch.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I’d be surprised if that phosphate reduction number was reproducible for a product like this, which is their version of organic carbon dosing. If it were, it would seem a poor choice for folks with phosphate below 0.6 ppm.

That said, I expect it is a fine choice, but there’s no data that I have seen demonstrating it being better than products such as vodka or vinegar.

 

[Pod_01]

Been using TM Reef Actif and I have yet to see it reduce PO4 or NO3 in any meaningful way after one dose, I find it very gentle.

Per Hans Werner Balling the composition of Reef Actif is as follow:

Yes, mainly seaweed based with some land plant based but identical to seaweed polymers.

I use it once a week and I find that corals become fuller. If I stop using it they don’t look as full.
This may be caused by other factors but I have not seen any negative effect when I use Reef Actif.

Good luck,

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

FWIW, I changed the title.

 

[Fisherman Joe]

I am also running PO4 binding GFO but the haven’t seen a drop that large before.

What are the risks using this product? Some cautions?

 

[Pod_01]

What are the risks using this product? Some cautions?

I suspect if you overdose it may cause bacteria bloom, cloudy water and oxygen may be reduced. Like any other carbon source if one uses too much.

Reef Actif is food for bacteria and the idea is that corals will consume this bacteria. I don’t believe the main intent is to remove/reduce PO4…

The drop you observed may be caused by other factors. Measuring PO4 after feeding, faulty measurement, maybe GFO use etc…
For example fresh GFO can reduce PO4 quickly and as PO4 unbinds from rock it will rise back up.

I tend to measure PO4 or NO3 before feeding or long after feeding. Also if I measure large drop I tend to take few measurements to confirm and I observe the trend for few days.

 

[Reefahholic]

I found this product to be weak and a waste of money. Results were lacking. More great marketing hype from TM, and their huge team.

 

[Pod_01]

I found this product to be weak and a waste of money. Results were lacking. More great marketing hype from TM, and their huge team.

Can you expand on the weak part?

The hype for ReefActif is:

Claim is food for bacteria, all carbon sources are food for bacteria.

The bio polymers and binding excess nutrients or pollutants. Not sure about that but the German companies do like to mention polymers etc…

From my experience the reef tank water is clear when using Reef Actif although GAC works better in my opinion.

As for price, it is powder in a container, so the price ratio is reasonable compared to the liquid gold sold in bottles (Reef Moonshiners Liquid Mud comes to mind).

 

[Reefahholic]

As for price, it is powder in a container, so the price ratio is reasonable compared to the liquid gold sold in bottles (Reef Moonshiners Liquid Mud comes to mind).

I don’t use the Liqui- Mud. Not sold on that either. It can feed undesirables like amino acid products.

Can you expand on the weak part?

As far as the weakness of Reef Actif, it’s definitely the weakest carbon source I’ve ever used. But…you know…”these are “natural”……. “long chain polymers”…. that “only” feed the “good bacteria” and definitely not the “bad!”

Or at least the hype goes something like that which makes me chuckle every time I hear it. I’ve tried TM’s entire Carbon dosing line, and straight Vodka smoked every product in that line on color, growth, and stability.

Vodka or Vinegar for the win.

Here’s your Hype team:

Team | Tropic Marin

www.tropic-marin.com

 

[Reefahholic]

I’m not against all their products. I highly recommend this one.

 

[Pod_01]

But…you know…”these are “natural”……. “long chain polymers”…. that “only” feed the “good bacteria” and definitely not the “bad!”

Yup that is so true, if I recall Lou used that explanation.

Hans stated there are less undesirable effects with TM carbon sources.

Elimi-NP is different from other carbon dosing solutions in the compound we have chosen. I have chosen the compound that in our tank trials had the least undesirable side-effect.

I suspect same approach applies to the complete TM carbon source lineup.

straight Vodka smoked every product in that line on color, growth, and stability.

Vodka or Vinegar for the win.

I never had luck with Vodka or Vinegar, I guess I used wrong Vodka LOL.
One day I will have to circle back and give them a try again.

I guess we can agree that OP drop in nutrients:

Came across this product last week and used it for the first time yesterday.

I saw a 0.5ppm reduction in PO4 overnight and a 10ppm reduction in nitrate.

was unlikely caused by one time use of Reef Actif….

 

[Reefahholic]

Hans stated there are less undesirable effects with TM carbon sources.

That’s just a claim with no evidence to support it as far as I’m concerned. I’d say the opposite. I had “more” undesirable effects with a weak solution that doesn’t live up to the claims. If these are “all natural” seaweed polymers…why do some taste as sweet as sugar? I tasted them. I should send some of the products off for analysis as I really dislike dishonesty. I had to dig for information on trace elements because some of my traces elevating. They sneakily put some traces in a few of those products, and didn’t list it in the “main ingredients” section. Apparently they decided to include it at the very bottom of the page under “other product recommendations” as if added trace elements are a “recommendation”, and not an ingredient of the product. I could only find that information in a few places, and other websites that had them for sale at that time didn’t mention it all. This was after I already bought the products, so that basically screwed me out of money, because I could no longer use the products at that point.

Here’s my claim. I visually saw all my corals color up after I quit using their product line and switched to Vodka. Vodka is more potent. Vodka reduces nutrients much easier with less product. I did not see any “less undesirable” effects from TM products as opposed to regular Vodka or Vinegar. Would love to know what those are. Cyano?
Bad Bacteria? How do they know which bacteria was being fed? How do you feed a specific desirable bacteria without feeding the undesirable bacteria? Let’s see the culture and sensitivity data to prove that. Pfft…you’ll never see it. It’s just hype.

After switching to Vodka… I also saw piles of detritus that had cyano growing on top that started to consolidate into much tighter clumps. The cyano started fading out, and I didn’t see that happen with any TM product in their line. I believe this was due to more microorganisms (competitors) that exploded after switching to Vodka and my growth also increased.

I guess we all have bold claims.

 

[Pod_01]

If these are “all natural” seaweed polymers…why do some taste as sweet as sugar? I tasted them.

Not sure I would taste them, but the whole polymer description is bit confusing. Maybe it is a translation thing. What would a polymer taste like anyway?

Randy corrected me while back that most common carbon sources used in reefing are small molecules, they are not monomers or polymers etc…
All of this is above my pay grade.

I do recall your trace element conundrum with TM carbon dosing. That was fun read…

Not to derail OP thread, but how much Vodka do you dose?
When I tried I ended up with bloom, couple dead corals and I gave up. NOPOX was not that much better experience and there was slime as well… That was in my early days of reefing, I was following recipes and going from one disaster to another.
These days I am interested in carbon source as a way to feed bacteria, corals and sponges.

 

[Reefahholic]

What would a polymer taste like anyway?

I certainly wouldn’t expect it to taste like Sucrose that’s for sure. Definitely makes you wonder. Heh. I bet I know what’s in it.

Not to derail OP thread, but how much Vodka do you dose?

It just depends on what the system is doing. I dose based on nutrients and other factors, but now that we’re monitoring DOC, it will probably add more complexity.

These days I am interested in carbon source as a way to feed bacteria, corals and sponges.

I carbon dose to feed the bacteria, which of course the corals are filtering and consuming 24/7. It also feeds other microorganisms in the system that keep the tank stable and clean. The stability is much better if carbon is not limited.

 

[Reefahholic]

I saw a 0.5ppm reduction in PO4 overnight and a 10ppm reduction in nitrate.

I find this really difficult to believe after using this product for months.

It’s got to be one of the weakest carbon dosing products on the market.

 

[Vested]

Hi all.

Came across this product last week and used it for the first time yesterday.

I saw a 0.5ppm reduction in PO4 overnight and a 10ppm reduction in nitrate.

It says it contains naturally derived biopolymers from plants and algae, anyone know how it will work?

Any things to watch for when using it?

I’ve dosed it to probably close to 10 differen’t systems now, the only solid thing I’ve noticed is a temporary dip in po4. I would also love some more clarity into what exactly it is lol. For some reason I like it but it definitely fits firmly in the expensive magic german powder category.

What can I say @Hans-Werner has a way with words, I don't want my bacteria to be hungry

 

[Vested]

I find this really difficult to believe after using this product for months.

It’s got to be one of the weakest carbon dosing products on the market.

I haven’t seen that dramatic of a reduction but for example in a tank that usually sits around 30ppb po4 the morning after dosing ill test closer to 20ppb. Seems completely reasonable that a number of other things could cause that but I have seen that trend a few times now in different systems.

The only thing they are clear on is that it is a weak carbon source. Below bacto-balance, I think it is only a product because of its use in the bio-actif salt. Which is just the normal salt with reef-actif, so I assume some of the claims of that salt can be applied to just dosing reef-actif.

 

[aquadise]

I certainly wouldn’t expect it to taste like Sucrose that’s for sure. Definitely makes you wonder. Heh. I bet I know what’s in it.

It just depends on what the system is doing. I dose based on nutrients and other factors, but now that we’re monitoring DOC, it will probably add more complexity.

I carbon dose to feed the bacteria, which of course the corals are filtering and consuming 24/7. It also feeds other microorganisms in the system that keep the tank stable and clean. The stability is much better if carbon is not limited.

Since you don't have a dosage guidance for vodka, I don't think you should recommend vodka to every topics else like this...

 

[Reefahholic]

I haven’t seen that dramatic of a reduction but for example in a tank that usually sits around 30ppb po4 the morning after dosing ill test closer to 20ppb. Seems completely reasonable that a number of other things could cause that but I have seen that trend a few times now in different systems.

That’s about what I saw in my system. Very minimal nutrient changes.

Since you don't have a dosage guidance for vodka, I don't think you should recommend vodka to every topics else like this...

There should never be a set dosage for any carbon source, or at least a dose that’s not being modified. There’s too many variables in every system that change from week to week. The dose should always be based on consumption, nutrient numbers, bacterial load, DOC, and how the system is behaving in general. I’m not recommending Vodka to anybody here. If you think Reef Actif is magic juice keep dosing it. I’ve dosed every carbon source available. I know how they all behave, aggressiveness on nutrients, and influence on bacteria and other microorganisms in my system.

If I were to pick a product, Reef Actif would be last on the list. Most fall for the hype behind all the Buzz words, and Lou’s long live streams with various social media influencers.

Buzz words:

“Natural Organic Substances”
“Predominantly Marine Origin” “Biopolymers”
“Completely Natural”
“No overdosing”

They mention the word Natural 3x in the description. I mean who doesn’t want a “natural” “organic” carbon source that can’t be overdosed? That sounds absolutely wonderful to the newbie reefer, and they know that. I had high expectations for their carbon dosing line (probably like many others did) until none of them produced the desired results, and I watched potato Vodka outperform their entire product line.
I went back to Vodka last after testing all of their products.

As mentioned above, they put trace elements in some of their products, but failed to list that under the main ingredients list. That was another kick to the gut. More wasted money as I can’t use those products now, and they weren’t cheap. To find that information you literally need to scroll down to the “very bottom of the page” where it’s listed under “other product recommendations.” How is that a recommendation if they’re already in the product.? It’s not. Had I known that, I would’ve never bought any of them in the first place. That’s what got me irritated with TM.

To Dr. Balling’s credit…he did tell me the truth about the trace elements in the products when I asked (Or at least some- I think).

For me it makes zero sense why Tropic Marin would leave pertinent information out of the main ingredients list.

Both product descriptions for Plus-NP and Elimi-NP fail to mention anything about containing three vital trace elements (Mn, Ni, and Zn). That’s key information, and anybody would want to know that. Sneaky and untrustworthy. Who knows what else is in there honestly.