Training a Mandarin Dragonet to Frozen-How long did it take you?

SeaHorseQueen · Feb 6, 2023

Hey, so I was looking at the search bar on this subject but I don't see much on how long it took for training their dragonets to frozen foods? I have mine in the breeder's net to give the copepods a chance to re-seed the tank again after talking a very experienced LFS person on what I can do to keep him fed up besides adding pods all the time. I also hit up YT to better ideas on how to get him to at least try it. I originally worked to get the fish when I got him to try the foods before releasing but he just seemed too stressed so I let him go. Today, he was fed like a king with live pods multiple times today. Tonight, he had a little bloodworm and cyclops mixed in. He is a wild caught so I was hoping for a break-through but he caught on really quick to spotlight feeding with live BBS. My other fish won't touch the frozen foods except brine shrimp so the crabs have a gourmet. He wasn't keen on it so I left him alone with it and figured he would make his mind up whether he wanted it or not. Tonight, I came home and not a single bloodworm is seen. Re-fed him bloodworms and he just went for the pods but aggressively. I turned the tank light off (room light still on) and he settled down. Not sure what that was about since he's never done that but I gave him a pretty good amount of pods tonight with the bloodworms.

I may go ahead and use this thread as a journal to log in notes on whether he's making progress. If anyone has success stories on getting wild caught mandys eating frozen at least half the time I would love to see them. I do know they still need their pods. I dumped in 60% of my own culture tank of mixed pods and he's getting more from tigger pods by RN for training purposes. The pods can come through the breeders net I believe. I've seen BBS go through them so I doubt that will be too hard for these guys. He will also get live BBS gut loaded with phyto. I tried to get selco but they were out and suggested dosing with phyto-feast for nutritional boost.

sfin52 · Feb 6, 2023

Look up mandarin feeders. You may never get it to eat frozen. Even if you do you won't be able to feed enough to keep it feed. Giving it fresh live brine shrimp will help extend pod restocking. I also suggest a refugium to give pods a place to breed

SeaHorseQueen · Feb 6, 2023

sfin52 said:
Look up mandarin feeders. You may never get it to eat frozen. Even if you do you won't be able to feed enough to keep it feed. Giving it fresh live brine shrimp will help extend pod restocking. I also suggest a refugium to give pods a place to breed

That’s what I do with the bbs but I didn’t know to gut load them because I thought they were the most nutritious at hatching. I’ll likely work on getting an hob refuge until I upgrade tank. I’m looking at a 50 or 75 but would that be enough?

sfin52 · Feb 6, 2023

50 or 75 g refugium?

DaJMasta · Feb 6, 2023

I've been able to reliably train them to eat frozen in about 2 to 3 weeks by confining them to a mesh breeder box and feeding twice daily with a variety of frozen foods (and vacuuming out uneaten food daily). It's risky to do if the mandarin is already thin, but with a healthy specimen, it has worked well for me.

The point where you can consider them trained is when they will reliably eat the frozen offered (hopefully at least two different things) in the first couple of minutes it's offered, and then when introduced to the tank, I keep the pumps off for feedings.

Derrick0580 · Feb 6, 2023

Look up paul b bbs feeder, took like 2 weeks for a target mandarin and 2 ruby reds to start eating frozen

SeaHorseQueen · Feb 7, 2023

sfin52 said:
50 or 75 g refugium?

Tank in general

SeaHorseQueen · Feb 7, 2023

So he seems to be eating the bloodworms when I’m gone but more like a kid who doesn’t really want his vegetables. But he eats most of them. He’s not on the death bed side skinny but still not fat. I’m still giving him live copepods to entice him into eating the bloodworms. This was day one.

DaJMasta · Feb 7, 2023

In my experience, bloodworms are usually the first things accepted for me - and you can tell they're interested if they try to get a long one but have to suck it up and spit it out a few times before it stays down

Mysis and fleshy shrimpy looking chunks tend to be soon to follow, but while they are not particularly efficient hunters, they do seem to recognize food by sight, so different enough looking things take additional experience to recognize.

SeaHorseQueen · Feb 7, 2023

DaJMasta said:
In my experience, bloodworms are usually the first things accepted for me - and you can tell they're interested if they try to get a long one but have to suck it up and spit it out a few times before it stays down

Mysis and fleshy shrimpy looking chunks tend to be soon to follow, but while they are not particularly efficient hunters, they do seem to recognize food by sight, so different enough looking things take additional experience to recognize.

Have you ever had fish reject frozen from a new whole packet? And accepted a different packet? I’m rather wondering if the packets that I have may be older? They look rather dull than dark color like I’m used to on bloodworms. Plus they smell weird.

DaJMasta · Feb 7, 2023

I've had them reject some foods, but not generally accept the same thing they've rejected before just from a new packet.

That said, smell weird could be a bad sign - if it defrosted and refroze somewhere in transit, it could have decayed or changed texture somewhat. If the foil gets punched a bit, you can also get dehydration of the food and freezer burn which would make them less appetizing.

I've had good luck with Hikari and SF Bay bloodworms, so as long as your mandarin isn't tiny, it should be able to manage even the larger ones. Maybe it's worth picking up a fresh packet or one of a different brand if it doesn't seem to like them much.

As they are food, they may also have an expiration date or at least a packing date stamped on there somewhere.

SeaHorseQueen · Feb 7, 2023

DaJMasta said:
I've had them reject some foods, but not generally accept the same thing they've rejected before just from a new packet.

That said, smell weird could be a bad sign - if it defrosted and refroze somewhere in transit, it could have decayed or changed texture somewhat. If the foil gets punched a bit, you can also get dehydration of the food and freezer burn which would make them less appetizing.

I've had good luck with Hikari and SF Bay bloodworms, so as long as your mandarin isn't tiny, it should be able to manage even the larger ones. Maybe it's worth picking up a fresh packet or one of a different brand if it doesn't seem to like them much.

As they are food, they may also have an expiration date or at least a packing date stamped on there somewhere.

I put every packet in a freezer bag to keep the frostbite off. But yeah I may toss them all and do another. Most were OmegaOne, SF, and Hakari. Bloodworms, cyclops, bbs, chopped shrimp, mysis, daphnia… they won’t touch it. The mandarin is around 2”. I haven’t measured him.

DaJMasta · Feb 7, 2023

When training mine in the mesh boxes, I would see some food disappearing from the box in the first week, sometimes even the second or third day, but it would take a couple weeks usually for them to both start hunting around for food as soon as I added it and then start going for it quickly and without passing over too many of the same. The ones I've trained have always preferred larger size stuff, so of yours, mine would go for bloodworms, chopped shrimp, and mysis more regularly than the smaller stuff - oddly, frozen copepods don't seem to have the same appeal as live ones.

If they really aren't eating after a week or more, it should be visible in their stomach area, then you can decide what to supplement to get them healthier again if they still won't take frozen.

SeaHorseQueen · Feb 8, 2023

Tonight I fed the little guy fresh bbs which he usually goes nuts for anyhow. They literally just started hatching tonight so they should be well hatched out tomorrow morning. I’ll be gut loading them starting tomorrow before feeding them to the mandarin. I’d like to learn how to freeze them properly for my own frozen foods.

SeaHorseQueen · Feb 13, 2023

So I do have an update. I pulled him off the frozen for a short to fatten him up but he’s looking better than he was. He’s getting baby brine gut loaded with phyto-feast. Meanwhile, my pods in my culture just blew up a bit when I wasn’t looking. He’s going to be a fat Mandarin by the time this is over. Excuse the bet, it needs washed but I had live food in there that I didn’t want to lose.

SeaHorseQueen · Feb 15, 2023

Well, I ticked him off while cleaning the breeders net.

He was in a jar long enough to get the net cleaned and the display tank’s WC done. But it looks like he’s putting weight on to me.

Daniel@R2R · Feb 17, 2023

Cool thread! I love mandarins! How's it going?

SeaHorseQueen · Feb 17, 2023

Daniel@R2R said:
Cool thread! I love mandarins! How's it going?

He's doing good. His colors are brightening up more and more daily and he's even showing off his fins a bit. I let him back into the tank to hunt. He started to lose some weight from the frozen so I over did the live bbs feeding from my two cultures and they rather escaped all over my tank while he was eating in the breeder's net. So, once he picks up a little more weight, I will try again. I'm noticing none of my other fish are eating from the packets of frozen food I have so I'm going to toss them out and restart and see maybe they went bad or something. They were eating from them before so I'm betting they went out despite the expiration date. But, I'm hoping to start packaging my own frozen foods that maybe he may be interested in. He wouldn't even touch the mysis shrimp which was the opposite of the research I read so it has to be the food. Right now, he's all over the tank.

chousecat · Feb 17, 2023

Do you happen to have a LFA that sells frozen lobster eggs? I saw a YouTuber feed his mandarin that and I immediately tried it on my mandarin who lives solely on BBS and frozen blood worms, he immediately started eating it. Not sure how nutritious they are but its another thing that it eats and can keep it full! The particles kinda resemble BBS which may be why he ate it so fast