To Rehome or not? ( that is the question)

[Doctorgori]

Is there a list somewhere of common saltwater aquarium fish ? The A.I search bots at Google are too stupid anymore … the search results aren’t what I’m looking for…I’m trying to get a list of commonly kept saltwater aquarium and their wild sizes. I suppose one could compile it, but it would be work, so maybe it’s already done somewhere…

Anyway the question of “can I keep this fish in this sized tank” arises a lot and the gamut replies vary from “tang police” type (moral driven) to “re-homers” (pragmatic driven) … I dunno, vexed myself and asking if this question requires a moral reply or a educational one? Perhaps if we admit our fish won’t reach wild potential should we drive toward optimal biology or is this even necessary? Does size matter?

Heck can you keep a 2” Blue tang in a 10 gallon? if so, how long? Hobbyist oft attempt a answer but I wonder how do they know when that wall is hit? or does it matter? is this a question for ORA or similar? (experts that have experience in growth rates from young fish to adult) …what’s practical? biologically optimal?
I got nothing else….Opinion sought …

 

[JTP424]

There's an online tool for that somewhere... or at least someone on this site used an online chart thing that gave approx fish dims and a rough calculator that helps determine that how big of a tank is acceptable was it like fishbase or something?

 

[tbrown]

Is there a list somewhere of common saltwater aquarium fish ? The A.I search bots at Google are too stupid anymore … the search results aren’t what I’m looking for…I’m trying to get a list of commonly kept saltwater aquarium and their wild sizes. I suppose one could compile it, but it would be work, so maybe it’s already done somewhere…

Anyway the question of “can I keep this fish in this sized tank” arises a lot and the gamut replies vary from “tang police” type (moral driven) to “re-homers” (pragmatic driven) … I dunno, vexed myself and asking if this question requires a moral reply or a educational one? Perhaps if we admit our fish won’t reach wild potential should we drive toward optimal biology or is this even necessary? Does size matter?

Heck can you keep a 2” Blue tang in a 10 gallon? if so, how long? Hobbyist oft attempt a answer but I wonder how do they know when that wall is hit? or does it matter? is this a question for ORA or similar? (experts that have experience in growth rates from young fish to adult) …what’s practical? biologically optimal?
I got nothing else….Opinion sought …

Live Aquaria has a fairly decent compilation.

 

[Doctorgori]

There's an online tool for that somewhere... or at least someone on this site used an online chart thing that gave approx fish dims and a rough calculator that helps determine that how big of a tank is acceptable was it like fishbase or something?

Holy smokes…humanity may have a chance … that had to take some work…be nice to find it.

 

[JTP424]

As tbrown says liveaquaria gives a good guide. Look up "estimating swimming size" on the forum and you'll find the rough calculator thing

 

[Doctorgori]

Live Aquaria has a fairly decent compilation.

actually, yes ….
Which immediately has me wondering if some of the “tang in 10g” threads are LFS purchases, and maybe less informed?

 

[JTP424]

actually, yes ….
Which immediately has me wondering if some of the “tang in 10g” threads are LFS purchases, and maybe less informed?

That is exactly a portion of them.

 

[Doctorgori]

As tbrown says liveaquaria gives a good guide. Look up "estimating swimming size" on the forum and you'll find the rough calculator thing

found it, that had to take a lil bit of work …bookmarked

 

[tbrown]

actually, yes ….
Which immediately has me wondering if some of the “tang in 10g” threads are LFS purchases, and maybe less informed?

Probably. Most pet stores want to make a sale and don't care what you have. They assume you can care for it if you're buying it.

 

[tbrown]

I've been in PetSmart and the salesperson was selling someone a 10 gallon aquarium and an Oscar.

 

[JTP424]

I've been in PetSmart and the salesperson was selling someone a 10 gallon aquarium and an Oscar.

And probably 3 other fish

 

[Doctorgori]

yeah gheez, you hate to accidentally bash a well meaning youngster who just got a blue tang for their 20g ….Invariably us adults step in with our soapboxes and rulers, stealing the joy outta the experience… Ive probably done it myself…

So this calculator will be a much better way to educate and disconnect from unloading some low voltage moral judgment… edit

 

[UMALUM]

Scott Michael published an opinion in 2003. That's where places like live aquaria " formally Dr Foster and Smith "and others sourced " stole " there literature from.

 

[UMALUM]

This was a non negotiable requirement when i built a reef for someone. Probably saved me hundreds of phone calls. From reef compatibility to captivity requirements it covers most in the trade.

 

[KrisReef]

I've been in PetSmart and the salesperson was selling someone a 10 gallon aquarium and an Oscar.

Nothing wrong with generating future business. The oscar can live in the 10 until the person becomes attached to the fish and then they will come back and eventually get a 55 gallon and hundreds of feeders on the path to getting the Oscar up to size.

 

[KrisReef]

yeah gheez, you hate to accidentally bash a well meaning youngster who just got a blue tang for their 20g ….Invariably us adults step in with our soapboxes and rulers, stealing the joy outta the experience… Ive probably done it myself…

So this calculator will be a much better way to educate and disconnect from unloading some low voltage moral judgment… edit

Yup. The fish is probably ok for a few weeks or months in the tank and the youngster learns the challenges and either upgrades or trades in the growing fish if it makes it.

The journey is where the lessons are experienced and the results are more lasting for the kid who makes the journey. Fewer would try if they had to eat the fish if it doesn't make it, and a good book can help shape inital decisions to avoid unsavory results.

 

[Doctorgori]

Scott Michael published an opinion in 2003. That's where places like live aquaria " formally Dr Foster and Smith "and others sourced " stole " there literature from.

This was a non negotiable requirement when i built a reef for someone. Probably saved me hundreds of phone calls. From reef compatibility to captivity requirements it covers most in the trade.

By 2003 I was pretty certain I knew about everything at the time, that hubris had me missing this book. I just completed a Google search before posting Scott + mitchell + marine fish didn’t yield anything directly, nor could I narrow down the exact Scott as a few of them featured fish pictures…

I’ll attempt another search

Fewer would try if they had to eat the fish if it doesn't make it, and a good book can help shape inital decisions to avoid unsavory results.

Axelrod shady as he might have been, Sprung and a few others have inspired me, so yes I think a ole skool book might be the prescription even for gens X Y & Z

I’m not sure these web boards make a good a 1 for 1 substitute vs a paper book
… also Adults & kids mixing in a common hobby/entertainment platform can work, just not 100% smoothly always…
I sure wish they was some sorta ID/ age tag ….something…no answers ..

 

[Doctorgori]

I can’t recall the LFS chain but if I recall a major one in the Phoenix area used to have paper care sheets next to the tanks. The LFS employee would give you the fact sheet with your livestock ….at least it was a standardized tangible …

Another missed opportunity is the collective knowledge for each species. Yes the search feature works but the parsing and sifting and fishing for accurate and specific species information requires a lot more effort than a pre compiled collective like a “Reefopedia” (which isn’t original, I think some form exist somewhere)…

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Is there a list somewhere of common saltwater aquarium fish ? The A.I search bots at Google are too stupid anymore … the search results aren’t what I’m looking for…I’m trying to get a list of commonly kept saltwater aquarium and their wild sizes. I suppose one could compile it, but it would be work, so maybe it’s already done somewhere…

Anyway the question of “can I keep this fish in this sized tank” arises a lot and the gamut replies vary from “tang police” type (moral driven) to “re-homers” (pragmatic driven) … I dunno, vexed myself and asking if this question requires a moral reply or a educational one? Perhaps if we admit our fish won’t reach wild potential should we drive toward optimal biology or is this even necessary? Does size matter?

Heck can you keep a 2” Blue tang in a 10 gallon? if so, how long? Hobbyist oft attempt a answer but I wonder how do they know when that wall is hit? or does it matter? is this a question for ORA or similar? (experts that have experience in growth rates from young fish to adult) …what’s practical? biologically optimal?
I got nothing else….Opinion sought …

I use 80% of the maximum length listed on the fishbase.org web site (I calculated that be comparing long term captive fish lengths to their dataset).

Here is the write up I did:

Estimating the Need for Swimming Space for Aquarium Fishes

This article explores required aquarium sizes for marine fishes

www.reef2reef.com

Jay

 

[Doctorgori]

You must understand that this method gives the suggested minimum size for an aquarium needed to house a particular species, it was not designed as a way to validate aquarists trying to over-stock their aquariums or to keep fish in too small of an aquarium.

I suspect a LOT of threads seeking tank size and housing requirements are repackaged “validation” request of conscience. Even without the above formula guidelines, common sense should tell you a 60gal tank can’t accommodate the growth curve of a 2” fish that will eventually reach 10”, not for long anyway.

If the initial question of the thread author is “how long can I keep this fish in this tank”, then that seems to be a more useful question

In the 70’s zoos housed big cats in cages; I saw a black jaguar who’s cheek hairs were worn off from pacing back and forth along the cage bars…
The animal was “healthy” by any observation but was it in a biologically optimal situation?

Again, Is this two totally different arguments: should we strive for habitat/housing optimization (per Jay Hemdals guidelines) or is it a moral animal welfare issue and simply housing a animal in quarters too small is just patently wrong ?