Thin lined puffer with ich

[HankstankXXXL750]

So quite some time ago I lost everything in my 3XL900 to ich I believe. I attempted humblefish hydrogen peroxide using an auto doser and was unsuccessful. Just as the last time I recently filled my 100 gallon QT system with new fish so don’t have a readily available method to QT. I have a thin lined puffer 10”, panther grouper 12”, marbles Cat Shark 20” and a red volitan lion fish 10”. I have had all these fish around 2 years or longer. To my knowledge they have never shown signs of ich, they were in my XXL750, but were outgrowing it thus the move to the 3XL900. After loosing the fish in the 900 I went fallow at least 1 week longer than the recommended fallow so minimum 76 + 7 days. Maybe longer just know when my calendar reminder came up, I didn’t get them moved right away. I don’t believe I see signs of ich on anyone else, but the shark hides so haven’t seen him. Notice the grouper hasn’t been as aggressive at feeding but think she is eating. Shark hasn’t been coming out to eat, but this isn’t unusual, she generally eats what gets left behind after the lights go out but a lot of the time she will at least make an appearance at feeding time. Last night I saw her moving back in the rocks.

The puffer looks like it is covered with fine sand. Not much I can see on it’s fins but all over its skin and even some spots on the eyes around the outside edges (does ich get on eyes)? Is it possible that these fish have been living with ich but not breaking out for two plus years? Did fallow over 80 days not eliminate it in this tank?

What is a possible way to treat these fish. I could buy a big tub like black plastic cattle waterer etc, but how would I filter it. I have copper power and Hanna copper tester but can’t treat in DT as I have various corals. Also can I treat a shark and puffer with copper? I’m fairly sure they would quickly polite my 100 gallon QT (it has been running for over a year and has a well established bio filter) but it is 2-29g 1-32g with a 55 converted for a sump. Have three wrasses small two butterfly fish around 2” and two angels 3-5” already in the system.

I will try to add pictures but lights are still off.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

So quite some time ago I lost everything in my 3XL900 to ich I believe. I attempted humblefish hydrogen peroxide using an auto doser and was unsuccessful. Just as the last time I recently filled my 100 gallon QT system with new fish so don’t have a readily available method to QT. I have a thin lined puffer 10”, panther grouper 12”, marbles Cat Shark 20” and a red volitan lion fish 10”. I have had all these fish around 2 years or longer. To my knowledge they have never shown signs of ich, they were in my XXL750, but were outgrowing it thus the move to the 3XL900. After loosing the fish in the 900 I went fallow at least 1 week longer than the recommended fallow so minimum 76 + 7 days. Maybe longer just know when my calendar reminder came up, I didn’t get them moved right away. I don’t believe I see signs of ich on anyone else, but the shark hides so haven’t seen him. Notice the grouper hasn’t been as aggressive at feeding but think she is eating. Shark hasn’t been coming out to eat, but this isn’t unusual, she generally eats what gets left behind after the lights go out but a lot of the time she will at least make an appearance at feeding time. Last night I saw her moving back in the rocks.

The puffer looks like it is covered with fine sand. Not much I can see on it’s fins but all over its skin and even some spots on the eyes around the outside edges (does ich get on eyes)? Is it possible that these fish have been living with ich but not breaking out for two plus years? Did fallow over 80 days not eliminate it in this tank?

What is a possible way to treat these fish. I could buy a big tub like black plastic cattle waterer etc, but how would I filter it. I have copper power and Hanna copper tester but can’t treat in DT as I have various corals. Also can I treat a shark and puffer with copper? I’m fairly sure they would quickly polite my 100 gallon QT (it has been running for over a year and has a well established bio filter) but it is 2-29g 1-32g with a 55 converted for a sump. Have three wrasses small two butterfly fish around 2” and two angels 3-5” already in the system.

I will try to add pictures but lights are still off.

Pictures and video might help (but not always).

Common wisdom is that 76 days fallow (COMPLETELY fishless) is longer than is actually needed, so I think you need to look at other avenues for transmission. the most commonly seen is chronic ich on fish that goes unobserved and then becomes acute when/if those fish are stressed. Two years without ich is longer than I've seen that though. There are other ways that the biosecurity can be breached. Here is a short write-up I did on that (not sure If I've shared this with you or not).

Biosecurity

A short introduction to aquarium biosecurity

www.reef2reef.com

Jay

 

[HankstankXXXL750]

@Jay Hemdal

As far as bio-security, I started dosing some phytoplankton and pods for diversity and hoping they would help with algae and nutrients as these guys won’t allow a normal CUC.
Her is a video of him. It is maybe sand, as he does lay on the bottom at times and I have finer sand in this aquarium, but I don’t know. Also some pictures.

Thin lined puffer

youtube.com

 

[Jay Hemdal]

@Jay Hemdal

As far as bio-security, I started dosing some phytoplankton and pods for diversity and hoping they would help with algae and nutrients as these guys won’t allow a normal CUC.
Her is a video of him. It is maybe sand, as he does lay on the bottom at times and I have finer sand in this aquarium, but I don’t know. Also some pictures.

Thin lined puffer

youtube.com

Sorry - I missed your post from yesterday.

I don't think this is sand - too much of it, and too much on top of the fish.

Each photo seems to show me different things - in one this clearly looks like ich. In others, it seems like mucus plugs, and in others, it looks like flukes!

The shark is going to confound any possible treatment - I would suggest hyposalinity for 35 days. That would take care of ich or flukes. However, the shark cannot tolerate that. Copper will take care of ich and may not kill the shark if you use coppersafe, but it will not control flukes.

Jay

 

[HankstankXXXL750]

Sorry - I missed your post from yesterday.

I don't think this is sand - too much of it, and too much on top of the fish.

Each photo seems to show me different things - in one this clearly looks like ich. In others, it seems like mucus plugs, and in others, it looks like flukes!

The shark is going to confound any possible treatment - I would suggest hyposalinity for 35 days. That would take care of ich or flukes. However, the shark cannot tolerate that. Copper will take care of ich and may not kill the shark if you use coppersafe, but it will not control flukes.

Jay

I have copper power, would that be the same as coppersafe? I think those are the two you recommended previously so I have copper power on hand. What about prazipro for the flukes? And can I treat at the same time?

What do you think about me trying to treat in a brute 40 gallon trash can. Basically I would have a power head and air pump. I would probably have to use at least 2 barrels.

Can I use prime and stability with cooper power and prazi. And I would assume I would have to stay on top of water changes as they wouldn’t be cycled.

thanks for any help.

 

[HankstankXXXL750]

Sorry - I missed your post from yesterday.

I don't think this is sand - too much of it, and too much on top of the fish.

Each photo seems to show me different things - in one this clearly looks like ich. In others, it seems like mucus plugs, and in others, it looks like flukes!

The shark is going to confound any possible treatment - I would suggest hyposalinity for 35 days. That would take care of ich or flukes. However, the shark cannot tolerate that. Copper will take care of ich and may not kill the shark if you use coppersafe, but it will not control flukes.

Jay

Also, if I use the brute with copper, does that make it unsafe for future use for water changes etc on my reefs. Or is there a way to clean it after that will not leech copper into the new water. (I have separate barrels of waste water vs new water, but I have been known to forget which is which)

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Also, if I use the brute with copper, does that make it unsafe for future use for water changes etc on my reefs. Or is there a way to clean it after that will not leech copper into the new water. (I have separate barrels of waste water vs new water, but I have been known to forget which is which)

I never treat fish in a system where I don't have good lateral viewing of the fish - you'll not know if the treatment is working or not, because you won't be able to see the fish clearly.

Jay

 

[HankstankXXXL750]

I never treat fish in a system where I don't have good lateral viewing of the fish - you'll not know if the treatment is working or not, because you won't be able to see the fish clearly.

Jay

So I’m not 100% sure if what I am fighting. So far everyone is still eating. However the puffer has looked bad then better. I did a 5 minute freshwater dip as I’m trying to arrange enough hospital tanks for everyone. I did this again today with him and the lion. Question I have is, does a freshwater dip get ich to drop off? If so it might not be ich. Does ich affect the eyes? If no it may not be ich. If not ich could it be flukes? And if so, I believe that is treatable in the DT. Is it prazipro?

thanks.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

So I’m not 100% sure if what I am fighting. So far everyone is still eating. However the puffer has looked bad then better. I did a 5 minute freshwater dip as I’m trying to arrange enough hospital tanks for everyone. I did this again today with him and the lion. Question I have is, does a freshwater dip get ich to drop off? If so it might not be ich. Does ich affect the eyes? If no it may not be ich. If not ich could it be flukes? And if so, I believe that is treatable in the DT. Is it prazipro?

thanks.

Yes, Prazipro in your DT is an option, it will help rule out flukes as a cause. Dose it twice, 8 days apart, with very good aeration and a 25% water change prior to the second treatment. Continue to run any protein skimmers, but do not collect the skimmate. Also remove any carbon filtration.

FW dips don't do much for ich, but they will temporarily knock flukes off of the fish.

Jay

 

[HankstankXXXL750]

Yes, Prazipro in your DT is an option, it will help rule out flukes as a cause. Dose it twice, 8 days apart, with very good aeration and a 25% water change prior to the second treatment. Continue to run any protein skimmers, but do not collect the skimmate. Also remove any carbon filtration.

FW dips don't do much for ich, but they will temporarily knock flukes off of the fish.

Jay

Thanks, I thought freshwater dips would provide temporary relief for the fish to give a little extra time to get set up for hospitalizing.

 

[HankstankXXXL750]

Yes, Prazipro in your DT is an option, it will help rule out flukes as a cause. Dose it twice, 8 days apart, with very good aeration and a 25% water change prior to the second treatment. Continue to run any protein skimmers, but do not collect the skimmate. Also remove any carbon filtration.

FW dips don't do much for ich, but they will temporarily knock flukes off of the fish.

Jay

so an update and request for some help/advice. I re arranged some things and moved all four of these fish to a 75 gallon tank. I just got the panther grouper moved yesterday as she didn’t seem in distress and was really hard to catch. Then the night before she wasn’t looking good so I tore down a lot of the rock and got her captured.
So I am treating with coppersafe at 2.5 ppm for three days or so adding the grouper yesterday. As per an ammonia badge this seemed stable until yesterday. After adding the grouper the ammonia increased so I dosed Prime and Stability. High again this morning so I dosed again and prepped a water change. Right before I did the water change my ammonia was at lest 2.0 as per Red Sea master test. Did a 35-40 gallon water change (think my fill point in my brute is 40 from when I filled them with Culligan water bottles) but when I dose 1 Oz of copper power I jumped to 2.75. Is that too high? I also dosed prime and stability for 40 gallons since I added new water.
Tank has been up and running for months but no real load as I used it for Coral QT to try to keep my tanks clean from those additions as well.

so my questions.
Copper power says it stays in place and doesn’t need to be repeated. It read 2-5 before the water change and I honestly don’t remember if I got it spot on three days ago or 2.6 something. How often should I test copper levels assuming I’m not changing water frequently as I know I’ll have to make sure it’s right with changes?

I have an Fluval FX-6 canister filter on their DT, should I move it to the QT tank? Would that maybe alleviate my ammonia issues? And if I do use it with copper power does that mean it can never be used with inverts? (I would still do it if it will help my fish as it’s much cheaper than these 4 babies) Or will consistent dosing of bacteria be sufficient to protect these guys? And if so how often should I dose?

Does ammonia still register when using prime and stability? As I dosed before the 2.0+ reading so need to know if I need to get new product if mine has gone bad.